Forums - Politics Discussion - Official Protest Thread

This thread will serve as the official discussion point for the killing of George Floyd and the resulting protests and riots.

The links below are to similar threads that will be closing soon so that you reference previous posts and carry over any ongoing debates you had.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242529/so-are-we-not-gonna-talk-about-this/

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242521/wtf-happen-in-us-my-honest-question-as-foreigner-/


The links below are to threads that will remain open but that the topic will be re-directed to this thread so that the original threads may get back on track.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242514/ps5-games-event-postponed-to-support-protests-rescheduled-date-tbd/1/

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/239694/the-us-politics-ot/1/

We ask that all of us (including the moderator team) respect each other and our rules.

ATTENTION: We also request that videos, photos or other content depicting physical violence that might upset or offend some viewers be wrapped in spoiler tags. You can add spoiler tags in you post using the Format > Add Spoiler feature in the header row of the text editor.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Around the Network

Reserved just in case.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Tagging in.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Black Lives Matter



Map of the protests so far


Police violence in the USA
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

The biggest reason why this is boiling over, no accountability while ignoring proven solutions



Around the Network
SvennoJ said:

Map of the protests so far

Good post. Very good use of info-graphics.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Big post ahead.  Combination of my replies from the other threads.

NightlyPoe said:
SpokenTruth said:

Great.  So go arrest their leaders, unplug their website and shut down their HQ.

Would be nice if it were that easy.

So not much of an organization then, huh? No leaders and yet they can coordinate a national city by city riot with delivered pallets of bricks in 1 night?

NinjaguyDan said:

I have been a liberal my whole life, I studied at the 3). Benjamin Franklin Pierce School of Humanity.
I voted a straight democratic ticket in every election since I registered.  Although, my soul would not let me vote for Hillary.
My moderation history shows me getting a couple of short bans for...   Flaming Conservatives!  I sincerely apologize to them.

It wasn't easy swallowing the red pill, realizing that everything I believed up to that point was utterly wrong.

Am I crazy?  Perhaps, but at least I'm not stupid anymore.  I have rejected the left/right paradigm. 

Current events made me snap. Things are not as they seem.  I was just pointing out that it all looks like it was organized.  In my educated opinion, the corporate news media can't be trusted.  1). How many MSM reporters have spouses or other relatives that are former obama administration officials or work for the DNC?  (homework!)

I will gladly take the slings and arrows because I know the future will bear me out.

In the coming days, justice will be served. Hundreds, if not thousands of individuals will win an all-inclusive vacation at Club Fed!
When it happens, don't be outraged that they have been arrested.  2). Be outraged by what they did to get there.

“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”

  -Frank Zappa

He knew what was going on and I believe that is playing out right now.

1).  OK, let's play that game.  Shall we count the number of people from Trump's administration that work at Fox and vice versa and or the RNC? I hope you did ALL your homework and not just the 'left' side of the page.

2). Homey do you not understand their outrage that got them there?

3). I really hope you just made a typo or some weird autocorrect happened because Benjamin Franklin Pierce is the actual name of the character Hawkeye from the TV show M*A*S*H*.

sales2099 said:
I’m purposely not following too closely because it’s so damn depressing. Racism is terrible....but rioting and looting doesn’t solve it. You just creating property damage in a country economically struggling from a pandemic. Peaceful protest is the way to go. Anything else is not justified.

And how well has that done for the past.....ever?

Nautilus said:
SpokenTruth said:

True, but context is key. What led up to and triggered each bad act?

Act 1 - A cop killing George Floyd: A suspected counterfeit $20 bill.
Act 2 - Protesting, rioting, vandalism: 50+ years of being ignored for various peaceful protests and ongoing police brutality.

If you cannot understand the gravity of the difference here, then there is absolutely nothing left to discuss.

So are you out of arguments then? Because it seems that way.

I have another one for ya:

1). David Dorn, a retired black cop was murdered by these so called ''protestors of black rights''.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david-dorn-st-louis-police-shot-trnd/index.html

Yeah, I'm against all kinds of racism, but anyone who participates in this shit that is happening right now or defends that 2). '' it's ok to destroy people livelihoods or murder people in the name of THE GREATER JUSTICE'' are a bunch of retards too.

You didn't address anything I said at all and you say I'm out of arguments?  And you should know damn well I don't run out of arguments.  I bullet point debate more than anybody here. But until you get past what I mentioned, there is no need to go any further.

1). Most unfortunate for David Dorn and his family.  They have my condolences and respect.  I do not condone his death.

2). This is why I said we cannot go any further.  Because you can't wrap your head beyond this moment right now.  You cannot see the history, the context, the decades (centuries really) that have led up to this.

Nautilus said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

It says a lot about people who say: 'It's horrible that an innocent black man was killed, but destroying property has to stop'

Instead of 'It's horrible that property is being destroyed, but the killing innocent black men has to stop'

Does it make a difference, especially since said protestors are also killing innocent people, black and white?

Guess what.  Killing people is wrong.  No matter who.  NONE of us condone that.  Why the in the world are you even suggesting that we do?

It's strange though you seem to have a far greater reaction to the protestor killing a man than the cop killing a man. Why is that?

dx11332sega said:
I think Michael jordan or a face everybody likes should lead BLM . people would not feel animousity to jordan unlike kaepernick. If jordan leads blm it would make people listen to jordan . kaepernick is hated by half population of usa if jordan leads which most of usa wont ignore jordan was there childhood heroe kaepernick is an unkwon so i think thats where theres still bad apples still not listening? IDK?

That won't do crap but make those people that already hate the BLM movement also hate Jordan. They'll set their shoes on fire just like they did for Nike already (including their Jordans).

It's not the messenger.  It's not a matter of having the likeable spokesperson to appease those people who hate the movement. They majority of them simply don't give a damn about the plights of black people. 

Nautilus said:
Vinther1991 said:

Can you verify the murderers were protesting for black rights, rather than just taking advantage of the chaotic situation?

There are millions of people protesting in the street.

The police has also murdered people during these protests, among others a BBQ restaurant owner, but that is apparently of lesser concern to you?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/01/david-mcatee-kentucky-police-shooting-chief-fired

Can you prove that every black person killed by a cop is because of racism, 1). or just plain incapability from that cop?

Or rather: 2). Do you really think it's a coincidence that everytime there is protests like this one, looting and killing always follow suit? At the very least 3). ANTIFA are a bunch of facists and extreme leftists that don't know anything but to cause destruction in their protests. At least everytime I saw them involved, violence was also there. 4). Or can you verify that's not true most of the time they show up?

I care about both subjects. 5). That's why I say All Lives Matter. That's why I want to discuss both the racism AND this wave of hate and violance caused by the protests, unlike some of the users that want to talk about racism but sweep all the other problem under the rug(violance, looting, the hate the protesters have against anyone that dosen't think exactly the same and so on)

1). That's actually part of the issue. That's part of the protest. Cops do not get the training they need to adequately perform they job they are hired by us for. I've mentioned before that some states only require 360 hours of training to be a cop.  And more (and proper) training and better hiring vetting would help weed out the bad and/or racists cops.

2). Why would that be a coincidence? Riots are just an extension of protests.  When a protest is marginalized or ineffective, riots are the escalated retort.

3). *sigh* Define fascism for me, please. Just want to make sure you really understand what you just called them and how inaccurate that was.

4). No, they don't always engage in violence at all. Violence makes the media, peace doesn't.  So most of what you're going to see is just the violence. I'd have to look up the videos for you because I don't have the saved or bookmarked.

5). Of course they all matter.  BLM is not a concept that suggests otherwise. Do all cancers matter when you have lung cancer?  Do all houses matter when your house is on fire?  Do all rivers matter when yours floods?  Do all garbage bins matter when yours is full? It's not about only black lives matter but it's the problem at hand that matters.  It's the issue unresolved for decades that is at hand that matters.

Have you asked any of them why they riot?  Why they are violent?  Why they rebel against the system?  If not.....why haven't you?

Immersiveunreality said:

It's like we are only allowed to think about one thing,some people do not get that thinking about other problems does not equally divide the importance of those cases in our minds and it has only gotten this much focus in threads because of some individuals feeling entitled enough to think they're the judge on what kind of violence should be the problem.

Wow. Way to just tell black people that their decades and centuries long fight for justice and equality doesn't matter because they rioted when another incident against them happened again.

Incidents of injustice.

Group A
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||and on and on.

Group B
.

You just told that top group that the bottom group should be given equal consideration for injustice.

Flilix said:

(Btw, 1). why do issues like climate change or people dying in poor countries never get this amount of outrage, despite being objectively far worse? 2). Could it be because people would rather not change their own behaviour, 3). since it's a lot easier to just paint the police as evil monsters so you can feel better about yourself?)

1). There are a few reasons for this. 

A: Fixing things that are already broken at home puts you in a much better position to help fix problems abroad.
B: Climate change and people dying in foreign countries require a global political effort that has limited impact by rioting here. A riot here won't stop Syria from attacking their own people, for example.
C: There are plenty of climate change protests the world over.  So i really don't get you bring that up at all.

2). Addressed in point 1.

KLAMarine said:

"And there in lies you're problem.  You still do not understand that this 1 incident of rioting is a reaction to decades of slights against them.  You're mad at the wrong damn thing."

1). >Can't I be mad at more than 1 thing at the same time? I'm angry at former officer Derek too but he's been fired, his wife is divorcing him, and is on trial. I hope he gets his just desserts but it's in the hands of the courts now.

"Got a question for you.....if those decades of oppression, racial profiling, unfair incarcerations, unbalanced judicial system, beatings and death never happened, do you think there would still be riots right now?"

2). >I try not to comment on such hypotheticals but I'm guessing the majority of participants in these protests never personally faced these things. All we needed was the video for people to get riled up, among them opportunists who were more interested in free merch than actual positive change.

"White: "Protest peacefully and we'll help fix it."
Black: "Let's march down the streets like Dr. King."
White: "No, not like that."
Black: "OK, I'm going to take a knee at a sporting event."
White: "No, not like that."
Black: "OK, I'm going to make a speech at an awards show to spread awareness."
White: "No, not like that."
Black: "Ok, I'm going to wear a shirt that says, "I Can't Breathe."
White: "No, not like that."
Black: "OK, I'm going to wear a shirt that say, "Hands Up, Don't Shoot."
White: "No, not like that."
Black: "Ok, I'm going to do a song and dance tribute at the Super Bowl half time show."
White: "No, not like that."
Black: "Ok, I'm going to give a speech at the end of a theatrical performance."
White: "No, not like that."
Black: "OK, I'm going to create a campaign that says our lives are important."
White: "No, not like that."

Black: "Then how the hell do you want us to protest?"
White: "Peacefully....you know, so peacefully I don't have to even know or hear about it."

Black: *This is why we riot*
White: "Why can't you protest peacefully?""

3). >And I'm still looking for the individual whose viewpoint matches this exact pattern. I'd like to share with you my take:

"White: "Protest peacefully and we'll help fix it."
Black: "Let's march down the streets like Dr. King."
White: Awesome! I'd like to join you! While we're at it, let's vote for candidates who will push for positive change!
Black: "OK, I'm going to take a knee at a sporting event."
White: Not sure that's the best thing, people could misinterpret it or twist it to fit their own message. May I suggest a shirt with a more clear-cut message?
Black: "OK, I'm going to make a speech at an awards show to spread awareness."
White: Okay, I hope the speech is good.
Black: "Ok, I'm going to wear a shirt that says, "I Can't Breathe."
White: Can I suggest an additional line of "Justice for Eric Garner" so people know who we're talking about?
Black: "OK, I'm going to wear a shirt that say, "Hands Up, Don't Shoot."
White: Most excellent, I'm tempted to buy one.
Black: "Ok, I'm going to do a song and dance tribute at the Super Bowl half time show."
White: Gonna need to see this song and dance before I can give my take on it...
Black: "Ok, I'm going to give a speech at the end of a theatrical performance."
White: Hope the speech is good.
Black: "OK, I'm going to create a campaign that says our lives are important."
White: What proposals will this movement be pushing?

Black: *This is why we riot*
White: You're just giving an excuse for use of force and some might agree with this use of force. I think this strategy runs the risk of alienating potential allies as well.

"When your constructive actions make no change to the system and names keep getting added to this very appreciated list, destruction is the only result."

4). >I'm looking for Daniel Shaver in this list. Is he in there?

I see Walter Scott in there as well. The former cop who killed him now rots in a cell as he should, I'd like to think this is a good example of justice served.

And Sandra Bland is in there: didn't she kill herself? Not sure I'd call this police brutality...

I think I learned not too long ago that I'm only one person and my actions will have little effect, if any, going one way or the other. I can neither stop nor start the riots or the looting or the necessary reforms.

Sometimes I feel like a grain of sand being washed over by the ebb and flow of the tides of life...

1). Of course you can be mad at more than one thing at a time.  Are you mad at the decades of oppression, racial profiling, unfair incarcerations, unbalanced judicial system, beatings and deaths?  No, just the riots?  Because every damn time one of these incidents happens, you don't side with the victims. You are known for it on these boards.

2). So you're guessing at their intentions.  Never mind the fact that there were regular protests first, right?  Not even going to ask them, are you?  Just going to assume based on what you want them to riot for. And that's really the gist of this.  You want them to riot for mere personal gain so you can feel better about yourself and your personal feelings toward them.

3). You're literally not aware of these?  The awards speech, the SB half-time show, the theater speech, proposals from the BLM movement? And you have the audacity to tell them to protest peacefully but are unaware when they do and they complain when they riot because their peaceful protests were either unheard or denigrated?

4). There are tons of names not on there.  After a while, no point in adding more.  The point is either made and understood or you never wanted to understand it in the first place.

KLAMarine said:

In related news, preliminary findings in George Floyd's autopsy showed no asphyxia or strangulation.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246/Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.pdf

In related news, a second autopsy shows he was definitely murdered.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/results-of-george-floyd-independent-autopsy-expected-today

3). People are dying, getting beaten, having their lives ruined, etc...and you want to talk about feeling better about yourself?  That's rather crass, Felix. No sympathy or empathy at all.

Last edited by SpokenTruth - on 04 June 2020

Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Are any of the states likely to pull one of these?

Last edited by Jumpin - on 04 June 2020

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

JWeinCom said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:



Thanks for replying people. I did some more research and found these figures. Looks like black people doing at least 6 times as many crimes, which makes up for the ~ 6:1 population ratio. Official FBI stats say that 49% of murders have been committed by African Americans in 2015. Therefore the above chart still holds. 

It would make sense that the high criminality rates from African Americans must be the main source of racism, and police brutality to some extend.

However, there is no explanation on why white deaths by US police is almost double as much, while people are campaigning for African American deaths, and at the same time Antifa riots are killing both and destroying their properties.

... I believe in another thread you claimed to be scientific minded... Yet you're going about this in a very unscientific method.

None of the charts you posted actually show that black people are committing crimes at a rate 6 times higher than whites.  What it shows is that they are incarcerated about 6 times as often.  This COULD mean that they are simply committing more crimes. It could mean that black people are more likely to be arrested, and police look at them more closely (stop and frisk).   It could also mean that they are incarcerated more often for the same or similar crimes (see the discrepancy in punishments vs crack vs cocaine).  It could also mean that law enforcement is heavier in black neighborhoods, meaning that black people committing minor crimes are more likely to be caught than a white person committing the same crime in a white neighborhood.  It could also mean that white people typically have access to better legal assistance and are less likely to be found guilty.  Custody also presumably included people who are awaiting trial, so it could be that part of the discrepancy is due to white people being better able to afford bail.

You've also somehow concluded that racism is based on criminality, and somehow didn't consider it could be the other way around.

You are going from the first part of the scientific method (observation) and skipping right to the last part (conclusion).  You're skipping the whole middle part where you hypothesize an explanation for that observation, and test to see if that hypothesis is correct.  You went straight from "there are more black people in state custody" to "black people commit more crimes and that's why there is racism and police brutality".  That's a really wild leap in logic that, perhaps not surprisingly, sees you coming to the same conclusion you had before looking up any of this data.  


I did not skip the explanation, I'm rather looking for one... I agree that these are factors that play a role yes but is that enough to change the overall picture? One is arrested for committing a crime.

You conclude that black people 6x crime rate comes from the police keeping an eye on them for minor crimes, but you skipped the "Official FBI stats say that 49% of murders have been committed by African Americans in 2015" and the second graph that shows a huge difference about the most serious crime that is murder.



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


I did not skip the explanation, I'm rather looking for one... I agree that these are factors that play a role yes but is that enough to change the overall picture? One is arrested for committing a crime.

You conclude that black people 6x crime rate comes from the police keeping an eye on them for minor crimes, but you skipped the "Official FBI stats say that 49% of murders have been committed by African Americans in 2015" and the second graph that shows a huge difference about the most serious crime that is murder.

Read this through all the way if you want answers
https://thescipub.com/pdf/10.3844/jssp.2019.1.10.pdf

It comes from here
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

What they find is that black people are 3x more likely to be killed by police than white people while 1.3x less likely to be armed.
Location matters, not crime rates



There is a strong correlation between segregation and police killings
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0027968419301300
Racial residential segregation is a significant predictor of the magnitude of the Black-White disparity in fatal police shootings at the city level. Efforts to ameliorate the problem of fatal police violence must move beyond the individual level and consider the interaction between law enforcement officers and the neighborhoods that they police.

This is further explored in the study I linked above.

Terrill and Reisig also cited a study by Reiss and Bordua, which explained the ‘dirtbag-syndrome.’ This syndrome explained the behavior of police officers to place people into two categories. The first category included those viewed as deserving of punishment and the second category consisted of those undeserving of punishment. The people viewed as deserving to be punished are often called “dirtbags” by police officers (Reisig and Terrill, 2003:18). This study represents how when police officers enter neighborhoods that appear to be dangerous, they can already have a bias that some are deserving of police abuse, due to the area they reside. This presents a significant problem in how police officers perceive those who live in poor or dangerous neighborhoods. Often minorities are living in these poor areas, but not by choice.

It's not about crime rates, it's about perception, expectations, fear, stereotypes, racism.

African Americans across the nation can be subject to prejudice treatment by law enforcement officials. Negative stereotypes of African Americans have persisted for hundreds of years, which have affected the mass number of African Americans who have lost their lives due to police abuse. Policy implications are necessary for African Americans to be treated fairly as a citizen on the United States, rather than being viewed as a threat. Law enforcement officers must be held accountable for their actions and preventative measures must be taken to decrease the amount of police violence against African Americans.