Ryuu96 said:
I'm not asking for them to throw Ukraine under the bus, I'm asking for a world where America gets out of it completely and we actually settle this ourselves. This is the same thing, if America gets out of it then Ukraine loses, as simple as that and then Russia has no reason to negotiate, they'll just take all of Ukraine because why the hell wouldn't they? Lol. Russias biggest request is NATO not encroaching on their border, why can't we give them that? 1. Because Russia does not get to say what other countries can and can't do, Russia does not get to decide if Ukraine, an independent country, wants to join NATO. If Ukraine wants to apply for NATO then as an independent country they have the right to do so. Key thing being apply though, Ukraine already tried to join NATO before, Germany blocked it. Because every single country in NATO must say "YES" for another country to join, it's not just America running the party like some Americans love to believe 2. Because Russia invading Ukraine because "NATO" is a bullshit excuse and not the reason they invaded at all, it's the reason they use to rally their domestic audience into fighting though, Russia sells it to the public as "Russia vs Evil West" not "Russia vs Ukraine" when the common enemy is the big scary NATO looking to hurt Russia then it's an easier sell to justify a war. Putin has straight up pulled out maps in his reasons for invading Ukraine and straight up said that Ukraine as a country doesn't exist, Ukrainian culture doesn't exist, it was and always will be Russian. Russia has said they invaded because of chemical biolabs. Russia have said they invaded because of Ukraine Nazis. Russia have said they invaded because Ukraine was about to attack them. This is what Russia does, don't fall for it, they throw out so much bullshit that it doesn't matter what the truth is, all that matters is they're confusing people and now nobody knows what to believe, that has been a common tactic of Russian propaganda. The truth of the matter is this is ones mans mad desire to land-grab some more land and restore the glorious Russian empire before his death (and Ukraine has a lot of natural resources). NATO is a defensive alliance, it was never a threat to Russia, NATO's Article 5 has only ever been used once in its entire history, not against Russia. 3. There's a reason why the former Soviet union countries despise Russia and why they're in NATO and Russia only has itself to blame. 4. Russia already bordered NATO prior to Ukraine's invasion via Estonia and Latvia. 5. Russia did fuck all when Finland joined NATO, in fact, they moved troops away from the border, so much for being afraid of NATO. 6. Russia moved the HQ of their Baltic Fleet to Kaliningrad and moved nuclear capable carrying missiles to Kaliningrad, a country situated between the NATO countries Lithuania and Poland. Do you see NATO invading Kaliningrad for this reason? Nope. 7. Russia has moved nukes to Belarus, a country bordering with NATO countries Latvia, Lithuania, Poland. Do you see us invading Belarus? Nope. 8. To this day, no NATO countries have nukes bordering Russia, meanwhile, Russia has nukes bordering multiple NATO countries. Do you see us invading Russia? Nope. 9. Ukraine was nowhere close to joining NATO because a single country would have blocked it, why? Because Russia already invaded Ukraine in 2014 via Crimea and Donbas and America and Germany definitely would have voted "NO" to a country currently in conflict joining NATO. You see how all these reasons show how utterly bullshit Russia's NATO excuse is? So many people have to die but we can't give them something so basic? Why? That's for Ukraine to decide. They are stoking the flames though, they're stoking them since the start. Did you read anything I said about all the countless examples of Biden actively going out of his way not to stoke the flames? We have Europeans in the Russia-Ukraine thread who will be happy to see Biden leave for this exact reason, me included. I'll say again, almost all of Europe has been more aggressive towards Russia than America has. When there is EASY diplomatic responses to ease tensions. Yeah, I'm sure it's that easy, Ukraine is just dying for no reason at all, it's so easy to stop Russia slaughtering their country, by simply giving up their independence, their ability to defend themselves in the future (what NATO military bases are in Ukraine?) because Russia pinkie promises not to attack again. Read up on the Budapest Memorandum where Russia promised Ukraine security agreements in exchange for Ukraine surrendering their nuclear weapons to Russia. That shows how little Russia's word means. Take NATO away from the border, reduce military bases, be fucking civil. And what of Russia? Why aren't you demanding they remove all military from Kaliningrad, their nukes from Belarus, their military away from Finland and their armies out of Ukraine? The only country not being civil in this equation is Russia, they're the ones who chose to fucking invade Ukraine and lets for a second imagine that Russia was paranoid about NATO, I don't give a fuck! That doesn't give you an excuse to slaughter thousands! I don't get to go punch my neighbour in the face because I'm paranoid after he joined the neighbourhood watch! People don't get to come into your house, slaughter half your family, then keep half your house because they're paranoid! Not once have I seen any respect for young Russian soldiers sent into this shit, or any empathy towards them at all. Eh, I saw a lot of sympathy at first, that sympathy was quickly lost after Bucha and the countless of other Russian atrocities committed on Ukrainians. Quite frankly, I didn't have sympathy for Nazi soldiers, I don't have sympathy for Russians going to slaughter Ukrainians. I don't have sympathy for the soldiers directing missiles on fucking children and innocent people. I'm sick of hearing that this is "Putin's war" at this stage, nah, this is Russia's war. I want to see Kamala/Trump come out and say this is an immense fuck up but we can fix it outside of the Battlefield We tried to do that in 2022 prior to the full-scale invasion, America, France and Germany were begging Russia not to invade, Zelenskyy told France to ask Russia not to do this, Russia didn't listen to our pleading. Russia didn't give a fuck about compromise. We've fucking tried diplomacy multiple times. How'd the diplomacy go after Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 (Crimea?) How'd the diplomacy go when Russia invaded Chechnya (Twice). How'd the diplomacy go when Russia invaded Afghanistan? How'd the diplomacy go when Russia invaded Georgia? How'd the diplomacy go when Russia dropped a fucking deadly nerve agent on UK soil. How'd the diplomacy go when Russia assassinated multiple people in multiple NATO countries? How'd the diplomacy go when Russia sabotaged military facilities in Europe? How'd the diplomacy go when Russia backed Wagner attacked American troops in Syria? Russia straight up tried to assassinate the CEO of Rheinmetall, one of the biggest military companies in Europe and vital for German defence. I'll tell you, we looked the other way, we stuck our hands in the sand for "peace" and we let Russia get away with whatever the fuck it wanted because we were too scared or too $$ focused to do anything about it. Diplomacy did shit. For the past 20 years we've been placating and trying to appease Russia and for what? For them to fucking invade a European country and slaughter thousands "because NATO bad" Nah Russia can go fuck themselves. |
God damn man. That's a lot. Give me a bit to get back to ya 🙂 on that. 👊
