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Phil Spencer: VR Is Not Our Focus Because Our Customers Aren't Asking for It

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Is this the right choice for MS?

Yes, VR will never go mainstream. 8 27.59%
 
Right now, yes. VR is still too niche. 13 44.83%
 
No. MS will lose their p... 8 27.59%
 
Total:29
Bandorr said:
What ever happened to the holo lens?
They were making it, I know some people tried it. Then I never heard from it again. They had that weird Conference where someone used holo lens with I think Minecraft?

Personally just sounds like they don't want to compete. Xbox one wasn't powerful enough. And X1X would have split the fanbase.

Making an Xbox VR game would mean making an "accessory" that works for the PC and the Xbox. You couldn't have it just be xbox or just PC that ruins the whole "theme" of the Xbox play anywhere. And you can't sell a separate accessory for the PC and the XB - they way overburdens the bottom line.

The footage was "faked" to look much better than it actually was for the user (this was proven).
So it was basically a Marketing PR stunt.

Also those Holo lense where like 15,000$.... and a VR version of minecraft would probably give a better experiance with a 400$ headset.

Holo lense wasnt ever ment for gameing imo.
They wanted to sell them to hospitals and the like.

The irony is, that VR headsets are actually in use at some hospitals.
Not for the doctors operations ect, but for the patents that are stuck in a bed.
Haveing a cheap (compairably) vr headset, that allows a person stuck in a sick bed, to not feel that way, can be a huge QoL improvement for a sick person.
Same with people with phantom limb pains ect, theres usecases for it.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 30 November 2019

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JRPGfan said:
Bandorr said:
What ever happened to the holo lens?
They were making it, I know some people tried it. Then I never heard from it again. They had that weird Conference where someone used holo lens with I think Minecraft?

Personally just sounds like they don't want to compete. Xbox one wasn't powerful enough. And X1X would have split the fanbase.

Making an Xbox VR game would mean making an "accessory" that works for the PC and the Xbox. You couldn't have it just be xbox or just PC that ruins the whole "theme" of the Xbox play anywhere. And you can't sell a separate accessory for the PC and the XB - they way overburdens the bottom line.

The footage was "faked" to look much better than it actually was for the user (this was proven).
So it was basically a Marketing PR stunt.

Also those Holo lense where like 15,000$.... and a VR version of minecraft would probably give a better experiance with a 400$ headset.

Holo lense wasnt ever ment for gameing imo.
They wanted to sell them to hospitals and the like.

The irony is, that VR headsets are actually in use at some hospitals.
Not for the doctors operations ect, but for the patents that are stuck in a bed.
Haveing a cheap (compairably) vr headset, that allows a person stuck in a sick bed, to not feel that way, can be a huge QoL improvement for a sick person.
Same with people with phantom limb pains ect, theres usecases for it.

So weird.  Why show it at a gaming conference if your target is hospitals? Plus I know they invited people to come try it out. Like JesseCox got to try it. Apparently it was awful. Not designed for glasses, and it had no view for the side so you just saw blackness out of the corners of your eyes.

I guess that answers that question though of it was meant to ever compete with VR.



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Bandorr said:
JRPGfan said:

The footage was "faked" to look much better than it actually was for the user (this was proven).
So it was basically a Marketing PR stunt.

Also those Holo lense where like 15,000$.... and a VR version of minecraft would probably give a better experiance with a 400$ headset.

Holo lense wasnt ever ment for gameing imo.
They wanted to sell them to hospitals and the like.

The irony is, that VR headsets are actually in use at some hospitals.
Not for the doctors operations ect, but for the patents that are stuck in a bed.
Haveing a cheap (compairably) vr headset, that allows a person stuck in a sick bed, to not feel that way, can be a huge QoL improvement for a sick person.
Same with people with phantom limb pains ect, theres usecases for it.

So weird.  Why show it at a gaming conference if your target is hospitals? Plus I know they invited people to come try it out. Like JesseCox got to try it. Apparently it was awful. Not designed for glasses, and it had no view for the side so you just saw blackness out of the corners of your eyes.

I guess that answers that question though of it was meant to ever compete with VR.

They needed good PR about something?
And they had been designing this thing for ages and wanted some way to show it off, even if that wasnt what it was buildt for?

The sales target would still be professionals and hospitals, even if it was at a gaming conference.
Why was it there? to make it easier to sell to those professionals + hospitals.

If it gave xbox users, false hope that they could get that instead of VR even better.
As they had backtracked on VR at that point (saying it would no longer be comeing to xbox one x).

So it fixed 2 issues for them.

I remember xbox users going "who cares about VR, we re getting AR soon baby!" "AR is the future, VR is not going anywhere" ect.
it fooled the xbox user base (since then xbox users arnt bitching about getting VR anymore, even if it was promised to them).

Phil seems to get away with breaking alot of promises tbh, without it seemingly hurting his popularity amoung xbox fans.



VR gaming cannot go mainstream by design and it doesn't need to. I mean xbox 1 never went mainstream, yet here we are.



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trunkswd said:
I don't see VR becoming mainstream anytime soon. I can see its popularity among core gamers increasing if there were must own games for it, but other than that I see there being a limit until the prices come down. I see AR having a higher chance of becoming mainstream once the technology catches up.

The difference between AR and VR is a lot smaller than people think.  Right now it's mostly the same idea just coming at it from different sides of the same problem.  

Barkley said:

Just add Oculus support... Then they can create VR games that are "Play Anywhere" on Scarlett and PC. It should be a no brainer. They don't even have to make their own games, after all if VR isn't supported why should they care? Adding support for Oculus isn't a big investment.

It would be really nice if all the developers were to open up support for cross platform VR headsets.  Like use a Valve Index, Rift on PS5 or use PSVR2 on PC.  

Bandorr said:
What ever happened to the holo lens?
They were making it, I know some people tried it. Then I never heard from it again. They had that weird Conference where someone used holo lens with I think Minecraft?

Personally just sounds like they don't want to compete. Xbox one wasn't powerful enough. And X1X would have split the fanbase.

Making an Xbox VR game would mean making an "accessory" that works for the PC and the Xbox. You couldn't have it just be xbox or just PC that ruins the whole "theme" of the Xbox play anywhere. And you can't sell a separate accessory for the PC and the XB - they way overburdens the bottom line.

They just announced Hololens 2 this year.  It's a long ways from being released as a gaming accessory.  It's main focus right now is Enterprise/industry uses.  

Its a $3500 device right now.  

It will probably be a few more Hololens versions before they really start going after a gaming market with it.  



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the-pi-guy said:
trunkswd said:
I don't see VR becoming mainstream anytime soon. I can see its popularity among core gamers increasing if there were must own games for it, but other than that I see there being a limit until the prices come down. I see AR having a higher chance of becoming mainstream once the technology catches up.

The difference between AR and VR is a lot smaller than people think.  Right now it's mostly the same idea just coming at it from different sides of the same problem.  

Barkley said:

Just add Oculus support... Then they can create VR games that are "Play Anywhere" on Scarlett and PC. It should be a no brainer. They don't even have to make their own games, after all if VR isn't supported why should they care? Adding support for Oculus isn't a big investment.

It would be really nice if all the developers were to open up support for cross platform VR headsets.  Like use a Valve Index, Rift on PS5 or use PSVR2 on PC.  

Bandorr said:
What ever happened to the holo lens?
They were making it, I know some people tried it. Then I never heard from it again. They had that weird Conference where someone used holo lens with I think Minecraft?

Personally just sounds like they don't want to compete. Xbox one wasn't powerful enough. And X1X would have split the fanbase.

Making an Xbox VR game would mean making an "accessory" that works for the PC and the Xbox. You couldn't have it just be xbox or just PC that ruins the whole "theme" of the Xbox play anywhere. And you can't sell a separate accessory for the PC and the XB - they way overburdens the bottom line.

They just announced Hololens 2 this year.  It's a long ways from being released as a gaming accessory.  It's main focus right now is Enterprise/industry uses.  

Its a $3500 device right now.  

It will probably be a few more Hololens versions before they really start going after a gaming market with it.  

"It would be really nice if all the developers were to open up support for cross platform VR headsets.  Like use a Valve Index, Rift on PS5 or use PSVR2 on PC. "

You would have to program the games for multiple VR headsets then, because some of them have differnt funktions or work differntly than others.
Overall you would put more stress/workload on the developers (say if they only made PSVR game) and you have certain vr headsets running at the lowest common demoninator then.

But I get your point, it would be nice if people that already had a occulus rift could just hook it up to a PS4, and just run it like a PSVR.

As a platform holder, I dont see much upside for sony to do this though.

*edit:

I went and searched for a few videos of Halo Lense 2.
The graphics are kinda horrible at that stage,.....
If you think PSVR has low resolutions and renders with aliasing, its much worse on holo Lense 2 (going by videos).

Its neat though, the idea of storeing a virtual hologram in the real world, and being able to interact with it.
I still think most of its sales, will come from people just trying it for the "novelty" of it, in practical use, its probably gonna remain behinde VR (for gameing) forever.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 30 November 2019

JRPGfan said:
the-pi-guy said:

The difference between AR and VR is a lot smaller than people think.  Right now it's mostly the same idea just coming at it from different sides of the same problem.  

It would be really nice if all the developers were to open up support for cross platform VR headsets.  Like use a Valve Index, Rift on PS5 or use PSVR2 on PC.  

They just announced Hololens 2 this year.  It's a long ways from being released as a gaming accessory.  It's main focus right now is Enterprise/industry uses.  

Its a $3500 device right now.  

It will probably be a few more Hololens versions before they really start going after a gaming market with it.  

"It would be really nice if all the developers were to open up support for cross platform VR headsets.  Like use a Valve Index, Rift on PS5 or use PSVR2 on PC. "

You would have to program the games for multiple VR headsets then, because some of them have differnt funktions or work differntly than others.
Overall you would put more stress/workload on the developers (say if they only made PSVR game) and you have certain vr headsets running at the lowest common demoninator then.

But I get your point, it would be nice if people that already had a occulus rift could just hook it up to a PS4, and just run it like a PSVR.

As a platform holder, I dont see much upside for sony to do this though.

*edit:

I went and searched for a few videos of Halo Lense 2.
The graphics are kinda horrible at that stage,.....
If you think PSVR has low resolutions and renders with aliasing, its much worse on holo Lense 2 (going by videos).

Its neat though, the idea of storeing a virtual hologram in the real world, and being able to interact with it.
I still think most of its sales, will come from people just trying it for the "novelty" of it, in practical use, its probably gonna remain behinde VR (for gameing) forever.

>You would have to program the games for multiple VR headsets then, because some of them have differnt funktions or work differntly than others.

Game developers wouldnt necessarily have to do anything.  This is a big part of what Valve have been working on with SteamVR.  Developers can design their games without hardware in mind, and SteamVR can manage the headset instead.  

Or, the headsets could be designed to send the tracking information over in an organized standard way.  

>As a platform holder, I dont see much upside for sony to do this though.

Part of the problem is, is that VR headsets are kind of in a space between TVs and consoles.  They should be able to work with anything like a TV but they are being handled like consoles and there are benefits to doing it that way (for both the platform holder and the user.)



JRPGfan said:
Bandorr said:

So weird.  Why show it at a gaming conference if your target is hospitals? Plus I know they invited people to come try it out. Like JesseCox got to try it. Apparently it was awful. Not designed for glasses, and it had no view for the side so you just saw blackness out of the corners of your eyes.

I guess that answers that question though of it was meant to ever compete with VR.

They needed good PR about something?
And they had been designing this thing for ages and wanted some way to show it off, even if that wasnt what it was buildt for?

The sales target would still be professionals and hospitals, even if it was at a gaming conference.
Why was it there? to make it easier to sell to those professionals + hospitals.

If it gave xbox users, false hope that they could get that instead of VR even better.
As they had backtracked on VR at that point (saying it would no longer be comeing to xbox one x).

So it fixed 2 issues for them.

I remember xbox users going "who cares about VR, we re getting AR soon baby!" "AR is the future, VR is not going anywhere" ect.
it fooled the xbox user base (since then xbox users arnt bitching about getting VR anymore, even if it was promised to them).

Phil seems to get away with breaking alot of promises tbh, without it seemingly hurting his popularity amoung xbox fans.

Because by and large, these “Xbox fans” you’re referencing don’t care about this stuff you claim they were “promised”. Logically, “Xbox fans” not caring about something they were “promised” is a pretty good reason for it to not happen. A lot of non-Xbox fans seem to track “promises” and care more about them than actual Xbox users. For example, you claim “Xbox users” were all about AR. I don’t remember or know of anyone who gave a shit about AR and was shilling for it over VR. 



JRPGfan said:
Bandorr said:

So weird.  Why show it at a gaming conference if your target is hospitals? Plus I know they invited people to come try it out. Like JesseCox got to try it. Apparently it was awful. Not designed for glasses, and it had no view for the side so you just saw blackness out of the corners of your eyes.

I guess that answers that question though of it was meant to ever compete with VR.

They needed good PR about something?
And they had been designing this thing for ages and wanted some way to show it off, even if that wasnt what it was buildt for?

The sales target would still be professionals and hospitals, even if it was at a gaming conference.
Why was it there? to make it easier to sell to those professionals + hospitals.

If it gave xbox users, false hope that they could get that instead of VR even better.
As they had backtracked on VR at that point (saying it would no longer be comeing to xbox one x).

So it fixed 2 issues for them.

I remember xbox users going "who cares about VR, we re getting AR soon baby!" "AR is the future, VR is not going anywhere" ect.
it fooled the xbox user base (since then xbox users arnt bitching about getting VR anymore, even if it was promised to them).

Phil seems to get away with breaking alot of promises tbh, without it seemingly hurting his popularity amoung xbox fans.

I doubt it will ever affect the diehards. And while they will continue to make excuses and not admit it, breaking promises does turn off those core gamers who may have been up in the air about which to get (see case study above.) Speaking specifically about VR, if someone was thinking of getting into it after the price dropped, or the 2nd gen headsets are out, Scarlett is now completely off their radar.

And, yea, they may say VR hasn't sold well, but for a peripheral that costs the same as the console used to play it, I'd say it's done damn good. Nearly 5M (probably 5M after this BF week), isn't anything to scoff at. The SW seems to be selling decently, as well.



I was still interested in buying an X when MS was hinting at WMR support for it. That never happened, and I've lost interest in XBox completely. Thanks to gamepass I don't have to miss the few games I'm interested in and the money saved from staying a dual console owner instead of all 3, goes to VR.

I have bought way more VR games than 'flat' games since PSVR came out. I do still play more without VR but that's because I'm addicted to sport mode in Gran Turismo and online doesn't support VR. In between I play Beat Saber and currently Borderlands 2 VR.