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Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

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Since people like polls in this thread.



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Kyle goes through the debate among other things with Krystal Ball

Krystal Ball on Bernie's Path to victory:



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As always, I'm going to watch her video, only to confirm that I already know what she'll say, her opinions and conclusions beforehand.



I honestly don't get the overall appeal of Tulsi... I'm trying to find it but it seems she's just a more antagonistic Sanders with none of his years of experience and half of his policies. I'm most likely going to get dragged by some people here but why not just vote for Sanders over Tulsi if you want an anti-establishment candidate?

Last edited by tsogud - on 22 November 2019

 

tsogud said:

I honestly don't get the overall appeal of Tulsi... I'm trying to find it but it seems she's just a more antagonistic Sanders with none of his years of experience and half of his policies. I'm most likely going to get dragged by some people here but why not just vote for Sanders over Tulsi if you want an anti-establishment candidate?

As far as inter-party dynamics go, the former hopped out of & called out a corrupt election committee back in 2016; the latter (who was technically an outsider) pulled punches against his primary challenger during said debates and willingly put on the DNC's custom leash when the time came--even with substantiated evidence of a rigged primary against him.



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tsogud said:

I honestly don't get the overall appeal of Tulsi... I'm trying to find it but it seems she's just a more antagonistic Sanders with none of his years of experience and half of his policies. I'm most likely going to get dragged by some people here but why not just vote for Sanders over Tulsi if you want an anti-establishment candidate?

It depends tbh. I'm 100% Bernie as my first choice but I understand the appeal of Tulsi. She's telling it like it is and she's fully behind election integrity while Bernie holds his tongue and doesn't go as far. On top of that she's to the left of Bernie on most FP. She also doesn't pull punches so that's her appeal. Quite frankly she's not bad, her domestic side is weaker and her FP while great, still needs work but that goes for everyone. She's not bad domestically by any means and she was a climate change activist, you should check out her Off Act, its actually really really good, not as good as Bernie's GND but its been there for a while and she pushed it for a while.

But Yes, her reach in particular is strong with her crossover support and tbh, she hits a group Bernie lost when he backed Hillary in 2016. Her main group is WHistle blower supporters, people who put FP first and those who have election integrity as their #1 stuff. That's also why 82% of her supporters have Bernie as their 2nd choice its just that she's more rough and tough than bernie and that's what they want right now and they're disappointed in Bernie not being forceful and I understand that. As for me though, she was close to Bernie but the more she spoke the more she fell, the single payer thing was the thing that made me really groan. I can still stomach voting for her, and I'm 100% sure she'd beat trump. But I'm also 100% sure she wont be the nominee and that she's somewhat working with Bernie. I mean, I don't see her getting 15% in Iowa and same with Yang and their supporters will go with Bernie and that's 100% how Bernie wins the caucus.



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uran10 said:
Jumpin said:

I thoroughly refuted your entire argument in that rambly 1500 word nonsensical post.

Whether or not you care about the polls is not relevant, it is the best indicator of opinion statistics available - the fact that you simply don't accept it because it's inconvenient for your fanboy. Your post is nothing but a bunch of bizarre spins, double standards, and lies, but mostly it was just Trumpist-style foolishness. The vast majority of it wasn't even supporting your argument, it was just a lot of random concern trolling.

I'll wait for you to point out the lies and double standards in the post. I've listed policies, you've gone on to attack me. Bring me your proof like i keep asking you to. You cant blanket statement this like you're trying to do. I asked a bunch of policy questions regarding what Warren has said and done and asked you to fact check these things, instead you went on to blanket the statements without bringing any proof then proceeded to attack me. Put up or well you know the rest.

The reason I didn't bother reading through and addressing your last post is that there's no point. It's just more concern trolling, that's the only thing it achieves. I've done this about half a dozen times now, thoroughly refuting your arguments again and again and again. It doesn't matter, just like any other fanboy, you're going to keep coming back with more and more and more choppy/poor grammar, Russia-English wishy-washy concern trolling. It'll go on forever. You go on and on and on about stuff that doesn't get to the point. It doesn't serve your argument. Here is an accurate characterization of all your posts:

"You think Elizabeth Warren will win because of people's opinions in the polls, WELL, I don't CARE WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING, this is what I am saying!!! DONT ATTACK ME I ONLY TALK ABOUT POLICY. Trump called her Pocahontas 11 months ago! Did you know that like 30 years ago she was a Republican?!?! Medicare for all? Yeah?! Well, she didn't USE to support that position!!! Hillary Clinton wore a blue dress once in 2015, just like Elizabeth Warren did last week! Yeah, GOTCHA! DISPROVE THAT POLICY." - Except you go on like that for like 1200-1500 words at a time.

Barely anything you write does anything to argue your points. You seem oblivious to the fact that you're not supporting your arguments. All you want to do is pull right-wing style concern trolling.

It's unfortunate that Bernie Sanders has Bernie or Busters pretending to be his supporters. It's not useful for the left; it's useful for Trump. The very mindset you push is the sort of poison in the democratic process that enables people like Trump in the first place. And while Trump is the worst so far, it can get much worse. Left or right, Always-Trumper or Bernie or Bust, all cults of personality are cancer to a democratic society. They should be exposed and snuffed out wherever they emerge.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

... You know what. There's literally no point in arguing with Jumpin, he literally wont refute my points and is now making up random things to try to support his "you're trumpian and you only support bernie cause cult of personality". Let me say this again for @Jumpin .

I do not support Bernie Sanders because he's Bernie Sanders. I support him because hs policies align with what I want. That is how you support candidates. Warren doesn't align with me and she doesn't support medicare for all and wont fight for it. That's why her first thing is a public option. I support policy, that's it. read my posts and stop this nonsense.

Bernie: Cancel all student debt

Warren: Some of it

Bernie: Cancel All Medical Debt

Warren: silent

Bernie: Medicare For all

Warren: Medicare for all who want it then Medicare for all (public option then single payer, aka she's not gonna fight for single payer, read between the lines)

Bernie: Bolivia Was a coup

Warren: They need free and fair elections, let's ignore they just had a free and fair election

Bernie: You can't fight a system by taking its money, so I reject all big money

Warren: I'll transfer in 10mil of big money raised in Senate and raise it in the general.

I can contrast this more and more. I need you to understand this very simple thing and stop this nonsense with cult of personality. I point out policy after Policy, things warren has said that disqualify her and what do you do? WhY aRe YoU aTtAcKiNg ThE lEfT. Like honestly, do you read my posts? Vetting a candidate and contrasting them isn't attacking the left. I'm further left than you. That's why I support Bernie over Warren, she doesn't go far enough for me and she is not a fighter. Understand this very simple thing. Pointing out Warren's flaws, her pivots, her lies is not attacking the left. Its helping people be informed about the candidates. This is why you annoy me so much, you keep attacking and attacking but you don't refute my concerns with Warren. You don't go after my point. You made up a hell of a lot of stuff like I said them and mocked them then used that to build your argument, a slippery slope. Arguing with Fallacy after Fallacy then acting high and mighty like you "destroyed" someone. This is my last response to you about this matter. If you're mad at me for pointing out the truth then you know what you can do?

Call Warren, Tweet at her, PUSH HER TO THE LEFT ON THE ISSUES. Tell her no big money, no corporate money in the general. Tell her to stop flip flopping on Medicare for all and support the god damn bill! Tell her to stop supporting US imperialism! Tell her to Cancel Medical debt and all Student Debt! But even then, she voted for Trump's military Budget, the largest one that had more than he asked for. But then part of her M4A plan is to cut military spending yet on the debate she couldn't even say she was going to. And here's something else for you since you're trying to make it look like bringing up a candidate's history is bad. Nah,its a record. Its on the book buddy, it gives you an insight to their decision making process and how brave and how much of a fighter they are and sadly warren just aint it. That's not my fault. That's on her. Just like Hillary was a terrible candidate with a terrible record thus she lost, Warren has a record and while its not the dumpster fire that Hillary's was, its still bad. Anyway, I can legit go on about how 70% of her plans only come up now that she's running for president and that Bernie has made bills for almost all of them and she never co-sponsered as well but hey, sure, I'm totally attacking the left when I'm a populist Leftist who wants the best fighting chance for the policies I want instituted.

So let me make this clear. I do not support Bernie because he's Bernie, I support him because I like his policies and I support the policies. That's why I give Tulsi credit as well. That's why I support AOC and Ilhan Omar. So kindly, cut this cult of personality nonsense and argue policy and if you can't do that then stop quoting me. This argument is going no where and This isn't educating nor helping anyone and is a total waste of time.



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For the record, Evo Morales was an undemocratic dictator. Bernie's response was disgusting. I'm just sad Evo survived.



yang2020 ya'll !

#yanggang