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Circumcision - Yes or No?

Forums - General Discussion - Circumcision - Yes or No?

VAMatt said:
Also, thank you to everyone that participated in this discussion in a respectful, constructive way (which is just about everyone). The wife and I are taking everyone's feedback into consideration.

 

You’re welcome and I’m glad that all of us were able to hopefully help. I wrote earlier, I think on page 3, but I will add something in right now.   Nobody here discussed the horrible process that is trying to undo what your parents did when you were a baby. 

I have a friend that at the age of 25, became very depressed because when he went in deep into what circumcision is and what he no longer has/could have, he expressed a lot of resentment towards his parents for taking that away from him.

There is a good sized community of men that actively try to regain their foreskin. My friend explained to me the device that he uses. It’s kind of a suction cup that goes over your head and you pull the existing skin that you have on your shaft up and it clamps with in this device and you basically wear it all day long.

It’s supposed to stretch the skin so that you now have some type of cover, but of course, it’s nothing like the real thing that not only provides extra stimulation/sensation and the vein/self lubrication, but to this community of men that have fallen into this depressed state, it is the best they have until their hope that stem cell research will actually be able to give them back everything in proper form.

There are plenty of men that live normal lives that don’t know what they are missing and are OK as a result. There are also men that know what they are missing and don’t care.  But by seeing what my friend went through and the community that he became a part of, I know that there are also men that are deeply, negatively affected and do everything they can to get it back. 

 Let me give you a good example of how the whole “some women don’t like a natural penis” thing is pretty dumb.  

I had a friend who was half Mexican, half Colombian. He was of brown skin and had three younger sisters. The middle sister was very dark, with my friend and the other two sisters being a lighter brown.  Because at the time (a good 20 years ago), the perception of darker skinned people was dirty or animalistic (racist anyway you look at it), in the particular group of friends that she was a part of, she hated the way she looked after a while.

Do you think as a little girl, she thought her dad was gross because of his dark skin? No. Do you think as a little girl, she thought her skin color was gross? No. It’s because when she became a teenager and was around impressionable friends, she thought what other people thought and her views all of a sudden changed. Her mom would find her in the bathtub for hours, scrubbing away with soap and a loofah at her skin, to try to lighten herself up. 

How does this relate to anything? A girl growing up this very instance that has never seen a penis before, natural or circumcised, has no idea what one looks like and has no bias towards liking one more than the other or a disliking of one over the other.  Where did this “supposed” disliking of natural penises comes from, like I said in my first post, is from a negative impression that used to be more prominent in Hollywood, from Jewish writers, incorporating jokes into television and movies, about how a natural penis is gross.

Now you have a small portion of teenage boys that become self-aware that they are still natural and all of a sudden, begin to not like themselves. Likewise, you have a small portion of hopefully late teenage girls and women that due to Hollywood’s injection, now think they don’t like natural penises. 

Only a small portion of teenage boys/men end up falling for the negativity and body shame which is completely stupid and only a similarly small portioned category of teenage girls/women, suddenly don’t like natural penises.  There are plenty of women that like both, don’t care either way, or like a natural penis more as a matter of fact, because there is more to play with, orally.

And on the flipside, it’s a majority of men who remain natural their entire lives, that are happy with what they have, because they do enjoy the look, the extra feeling, and the extra satisfaction of what a woman can do with her tongue/lips to him plus the realization that him as a natural man, will get more out of oral sex than any circumcised men will get.

The tides are turning. The Hollywood scene and the writing is slowly fading. Countries are slowly performing less and less circumcisions. It definitely makes more sense to be a modern boy today that grows up to be a man of tomorrow, with a more advanced/forward way of thinking and having all that he was born with, completely in tact and enjoy sex the way it was meant to be enjoyed.

Ask yourself this. Does any animal…dog, cat, elephant, mouse, etc. circumcise their own male offspring? No. It doesn’t make sense for us to either. 



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I am circumcized and I will say if you do go through with it’s not the end of the world. Most of the lies that you can’t feel sex as good are simply that. Scientific studies and a lot of science is just bullshit. However, the risk of complications no matter how small can’t be ignored and follows why I will hawk the mannar that they are vaccinated (I may try to avoid it and even forge their vaccinations). Another reason I’m against it is I’m Christian and it’s anti-Christian if you study the few references its mentioned in the Bible. Jesus was circumcized because he was born in a Jewish family, but he sort of compared it to an injury. Another reason is that it is against the natural order and the fact that there is any risk is enough for me. If my child has issues with his foreskin we will consider it, but let’s be honest. I’m not ruling things out if my child has some extreme unforseen problem. For me personally I would probably ignore my wife and refuse it for my future son and simply take the wheel on this one. So if I have a son he will definately not be circumcized even if the feeling changes and people do it at a much greater rate and that will further alienate my child. Again though I won’t hate someone for doing it and clearly it doesn’t mutilate them like some extremists like to say. That is just pornographic psychological warfare imo that isn’t really rooted in truth or love.



danasider said:
Runa216 said:
I think the thing that pisses me off most about the circumcision 'debate' is that absolutely none of the pro-circumcision arguments come close to matching the anti-circumcision arguments. Or, for that matter, just one argument.

Choice.

None of the arguments I've EVER heard are even close to the same level of 'it's a man's penis, it should be his choice in the end, he shouldn't have that choice taken away.' this isn't something like 'do we pierce his ears' or 'we want to cut our daughter's hair and make her bald'. This is a permanent, life-altering decision and change in genital anatomy that will impact his ability to enjoy sex for his entire life.

Arguments like 'it's easier to clean' are positively inane. Clean your dick. Teach your kid to clean his dick. ITS NOT HARD. Will kids laugh? Who cares? Circumcision is, AT BEST, a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Will it hurt more or be more impactful when you're an adult? yes, but again that's his choice; if he feels its worth it then he'll do it. a few weeks of discomfort to have what might be to him a better experience is worth it. A man is a child for 18 years before he becomes a man, but after that a reasonable person can be alive another 50-60 years after that. At that point if he REALLY wants to get cut, that's up to him, but if he was and wants foreskin, too bad for him. No need to get into the stupidity of religion.

But my point is simply that it's a lifetime-lasting decision based on a parent's worries about the kid's first 1/5 of their lives. Even if for some reason a penis WAS hard to wash (it's not) or it WAS more subject to diseases when uncut (it's not), then circumcision is still shorthand for "I'm a bad parent who can't be bothered to teach my kid how to not be a disgusting slob so I'm just gonna remove the issue.",

Again, ALL of the arguments pro-circumcision ONLY concern the first 18 years of the man's life, presumably half or three quarters of which he won't even be having sex. Why does ANYONE find it a reasonable decision to do this to someone at birth based solely on mistruths and shortsightedness?

If you circumcise and they resent it when they get older, then they're stuck with YOUR decision. If you don't circumcise and they wish to be upon getting older, then VOILA, they're able to. It should be their decision.

Parents make decisions for children all the time.

Additionally, I'd argue the choice is more important for the child's adult years, as that's when they'll be having the majority of sex. And in the US, circumcised penises are just more accepted.

I'd also wager that the people complaining about a lack of choice haven't actually had a circumcision. I've never heard of a guy who was circumcised as a child complain about it in their adult years. We don't remember it. Most of us are happy our parents has us circumcised as infants.

However, I have heard about complications with regard to adult males having circumcisions. And I have heard about guys being less confident due to perceptions women have of uncircumcised penises.

YEs, for things that impact them only as kids that makes perfect sense. Circumcision is with them forever whether they like it or not. 

If it turns out they circumcise you and you're happy with that or don't notice a difference? That's fine! good for you! I'm happy for you. But I must repeat myself again by saying that if they DO circumcise and you want a foreskin, too bad for you. Their decision just impacted you for the rest of your life based on faulty, out of date data and silly traditions. If you grow up and decide you want to be circumcised - say you like how it looks or you just wanna try it - that's YOUR decision. It's still a permanent one, but at least YOU, the owner of YOUR penis and recipient of the pleasure that comes from it, made the decision. 

I do not understand how you justify that gamble. You're taking only a small group of potential circumstances into consideration and using it to argue a point. 

Would you appreciate it if, today, your parents came into your room and started telling you what positions you could do with your wife/girlfriend? Would you - or anyone - be amicable to the idea that your pastor could come into your house and make a decision about YOUR junk for you well before you had the opportunity to make up your mind? 

Sure, there are people out there who were circumcised at birth and okay with it. For those people, I'm happy. I truly am. I'm glad that, by chance, your parents made a decision that you agree with and appreciate. However, I've been on this earth more than 30 years and I've learned there ARE NO ARGUMENTS that even hold a candle to the magical word: Choice. As an adult male, you should have control over your genitals. That's the final say. YOU and ONLY YOU (maybe your boyfriend/wife/husband/girlfriend) should have that say, and that decision should only be made once you're at an age where you have a basic understanding of how your cock works. Never before. 

Take a 4-square grid. On the X axis you have two options: Were you circumcised at birth or not? On the Y Axis, Are you happy with this decision or not? 

If you were cut and happy with this decision, then cool! Nothing changes. 

If you were uncut and happy with this decision, then cool! Nothing changes! 

If you were Uncut and unhappy with this decision, you have the choice to get cut! 

If you were Cut and unhappy with this decision, you're stuck with it regardless. 

So realistically, there are NO negative results if you are uncut at birth (And, you know, not a disgusting slob and don't let peer pressure force you to mutilate your dick to fit in). But if you ARE cut at birth, there's a chance you will be stuck with that and unhappy about it your whole life. The potential negative effects of being uncut are absolutely nothing compared to the lifelong misery you might have thrust upon you if you're cut and resent it later in life. HAving met many men (and partners of mine) who hate their parents for having them circumcised but NEVER met a person who was uncut and for some reason hated their parents for that or resented it tells you all I need. you know why? because if you're a grown-assed man who wants to get rid of his foreskin, then you have that option and therefore it's not worth being bitchy about. 

Then again, I've also never met a man with foreskin who hates it. Why? Because it's good! Keeps ya tender and sensitive and soft and well lubed and more pleasured in the act! 

Point is the same I've been saying all along. Uncut is better at birth because you can make the decision on your own upon becoming an adult. There are no good reasons to circumcise from a medical standpoint, and simply 'accepting' your parents choice is not a good enough reason to take that decision away. 

People in this thread need to stop asserting 'well it's okay for me so therefore it must be okay for my kid' as an excuse. I pierced my own clit with a 14g needle and that was fine. Doesn't mean it's for everyone. I have tattoos, I have modified parts of myself to fit my needs, that doesn't mean I'd do it to others. You should NEVER make the decision for someone else, not for something that is so intimate, especially not a decade or more before they have the sexual maturity to know what they want. 



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Let me add another "no" to the sea of "no's". As a (secular) circumcised guy myself, I'd have preferred to had a say in it... and the answer would have been, of course, no.



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teamsilent13 said:

I am circumcized and I will say if you do go through with it’s not the end of the world. Most of the lies that you can’t feel sex as good are simply that. Scientific studies and a lot of science is just bullshit. However, the risk of complications no matter how small can’t be ignored and follows why I will hawk the mannar that they are vaccinated (I may try to avoid it and even forge their vaccinations). Another reason I’m against it is I’m Christian and it’s anti-Christian if you study the few references its mentioned in the Bible. Jesus was circumcized because he was born in a Jewish family, but he sort of compared it to an injury. Another reason is that it is against the natural order and the fact that there is any risk is enough for me. If my child has issues with his foreskin we will consider it, but let’s be honest. I’m not ruling things out if my child has some extreme unforseen problem. For me personally I would probably ignore my wife and refuse it for my future son and simply take the wheel on this one. So if I have a son he will definately not be circumcized even if the feeling changes and people do it at a much greater rate and that will further alienate my child. Again though I won’t hate someone for doing it and clearly it doesn’t mutilate them like some extremists like to say. That is just pornographic psychological warfare imo that isn’t really rooted in truth or love.

So science is stupid,lets open the bible for a more logical approach?

lol



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Generally I think its a safe and sound decision to leave the body as it is, but keep an eye on it when he's growing up, circumcision can be good for those who foreskin is too tight/long and prevents it from being thoroughly cleaned and can scar/tear during intercourse



VAMatt said:
danasider said:

I'm American, too, and I find it weird how everyone is so anti-circumcision.

On one side, I understand that mutilating a child is barbaric.

On the other side, I don't remember any of it, myself, so I don't feel bad about being mutilated.

But the bigger thing is I am not ashamed of how it looks. Boosting self esteem isn't a bad thing.

I've heard girls literally talk in disgust about uncut penises. I get the science (self-lubing and probably feels better for both guy and girl), but I am pretty sure the look of it matters more to most girls (in the US, at least, probably different in other countries).

I don't see it as something for health benefits. I see it more as plastic surgery. Not the best thing, but not as bad as people on this thread are making it out to be.

This is about where I come down as well (I'm also American).  American chicks, as I understand it, tend to think uncircumcised penises are weird.  I don't want my son to have to deal with that.

On the hand, it is cosmetic surgery without the patient's consent.  That seems morally wrong to me.  So, I'm pretty sure we aren't gonna do it.

Yer but isn't it becoming less common now? By the time your son is an adult a circumcised dick may be the weird thing.



 

 

DarthMetalliCube said:

I'm surprised at all the "no" responses in this thread. Being an American it's still a pretty common practice. I gotta say it's a bit of a bummer reading some of these comments as a circumcised male lol. I've started to feel a bit bummed about it actually over the recent years of reading more and more about how the pros far outweigh the cons of being uncircumcised, when in the last decade and prior, most of what I had heard way essentially reversed. Too bad I can't "reverse" what's already been done :/

It's even a bit more insult to injury to me as I have heard it's largely done (at least in my neck of the woods) as a Christian/Catholic "tradition" more so than any precieved health benefits and I'm quite firmly anti-religious..

But yeah, it's still a pretty common thing in the US (though I sense this is starting to change now that religion isn't as prominent and more information is out there). Even now to a degree, here in the US you're typically considered a bit strange or at least "different" if you're uncircumcised, and I've heard of a lot of women saying it looks strange to them.

I have to say though..

(INCOMING GROSS STORY, if you're easily squeamish you may not want to read)

..I did sort of rethink my envy of uncircumcised a bit when a good friend of mine (uncircumcised - he told me this btw, we're not "that way" lol) - but anyway he told me a rather stomach-churning tale about some of his skin getting .. erm "ripped" and bleeding pretty roughly at the top of his penis when having sex with his girlfriend.

First i herd of that. I know no Christian /Catholic that has said it is tradition. Maybe a jew but that is about it.



 

 

omarct said:

What is the foreskin?

Boys are born with a foreskin. This is a fold of skin that covers and protects the rounded tip of the penis. The foreskin provides sensation and lubricates the penis.

Some families choose to circumcise boys. This means that the foreskin is removed by surgery. Other families keep a boy's penis in its natural state.

A baby's foreskin can't be pulled back (retracted) over the head of the penis. But over the first few years of life, the foreskin gradually pulls back more easily. By the time a boy is 5 years old, his foreskin usually can be pulled all the way back. Some boys' foreskins cannot be pulled all the way back until they are 10 to 17 years old.

How do you care for an uncircumcised penis?

 Until it can be pulled back, wash only the outside of the penis. Don't try to force the foreskin back. When the foreskin can be pulled back, the area needs to be cleaned every day.

Infants and young boys

  • A baby's foreskin does not pull back easily for about 6 months. Don't force it. Until you can pull the foreskin back, use warm water to wash the outside of the penis only. Pulling your son's foreskin back too early can damage it and cause scar tissue to form.
  • When you're able to pull the foreskin back, do so gently. Only pull it as far as it will go. Carefully wash the whole area with warm water. After washing, return the foreskin to its normal position.
  • Teach your child how to pull back the foreskin and wash his penis. A boy as young as 3 can be taught to do this.
  • If your son's foreskin can't be pulled all the way back by the time he reaches puberty, call your doctor or nurse call line for advice.
  • If you can't return the foreskin to its normal position, call your doctor or nurse call line right away.

Older boys and adults

  • Wash under the foreskin as noted above.
  • Always put the foreskin back to its normal position if it has been pulled back. This may happen during sex. Or you may pull it back before sex, before you urinate, or while you clean it.
  • Be sure the foreskin is in its normal position after any doctor examination or procedure. For example, the foreskin may be pulled back to use a catheter.
  • If you can't return your foreskin to its normal position, call your doctor or nurse call line right away.

Why does there exist a manual for this?

The human species has been fine for a couple hundred thousand years before the internet. Having penises isn’t something new. The sillyness of the modern age never ceases to amaze me.



Cobretti2 said:
VAMatt said:

This is about where I come down as well (I'm also American).  American chicks, as I understand it, tend to think uncircumcised penises are weird.  I don't want my son to have to deal with that.

On the hand, it is cosmetic surgery without the patient's consent.  That seems morally wrong to me.  So, I'm pretty sure we aren't gonna do it.

Yer but isn't it becoming less common now? By the time your son is an adult a circumcised dick may be the weird thing.

Yes.  But, the people in his age group are being born now.  So, those circumcision decisions are (mostly) being made now.

Just to let everyone in on something - while only 60%  of kids born in the US are being circumsized now, the rate among Americans born to American parents is very high.  I don't have an  official number, but I'm thinking 95% or so.  When talking to friends and family about this matter, nearly everyone was clearly defaulting to "yes, circumsize".  In fact, many of our friends looked at us like we're crazy for even considering leaving him uncircumcised.  It's basically only my libertarian activist friends that seem to even have considered not circumsizing.  

Wifey and I have pretty much decided not to have him circumsized.  As I said before, it mostly comes down to consent, at least in my mind.  But, it is a fact that this decision will leave our son with an abnormal penis, relative to people around him.  We don't have to like or approve of the tradition of circumcision here.  But, that doesn't change the fact that it is the standard.   Then again, somebody has to stop accepting stupid traditions, if they're ever going to change......