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Forums - Politics Discussion - Kanye West Gives and Amazing Speech at the White House.

RolStoppable said:
PortisheadBiscuit said:

Given your reputation (and mod history) on these forums not sure you want to bring up the past, no? 

I am still trying to figure out why all this is such a big deal for you. Is it that you want to call LurkerJ and me racists, but are afraid to do so?

That sounds like your own insecurity and has nothing to do with me. If I wanted to label you a racist and had just cause for doing so, I wouldnt aprehend myself.

Last edited by PortisheadBiscuit - on 16 October 2018

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I've been advised to watch this, so I did.

He's actually insane, isn't he?



                            

RolStoppable said:
PortisheadBiscuit said:

That sounds like your own insecurity and has nothing to do with me. If I wanted to label you a racist and had just cause for doing so, I wouldnt aprehend myself.

You continue to do your best to refrain from saying what exactly your issue is and what you want.

Do I have to make guesses until I hit the jackpot? It would have been a lot more productive if you posted more than "No, that's not it."

What I am sure about is that you and others didn't like the generalisation about hip-hop and rap music, but the only counter-arguments that were presented point to sub-genres and music that isn't popular enough to be played on the radio. That's as substantial as someone pointing out that there are punk rock bands with political lyrics who play in front of 100-200 people and sell a few thousand CDs; clearly not mainstream. A generalisation does not need to be 100% true, it's sufficient if it's true to a very large degree.

So if your expectation is that generalisations about music are taken back, then that's not going to happen. If you are looking for a concession that not all hip-hop and rap artists are throwaway material when it comes to political topics, then sure, you can certainly have that from me. But I am still left guessing what you want.

So you admit you made errant generalizations then. Bingo! End of. 



PortisheadBiscuit said:
RolStoppable said:

You continue to do your best to refrain from saying what exactly your issue is and what you want.

Do I have to make guesses until I hit the jackpot? It would have been a lot more productive if you posted more than "No, that's not it."

What I am sure about is that you and others didn't like the generalisation about hip-hop and rap music, but the only counter-arguments that were presented point to sub-genres and music that isn't popular enough to be played on the radio. That's as substantial as someone pointing out that there are punk rock bands with political lyrics who play in front of 100-200 people and sell a few thousand CDs; clearly not mainstream. A generalisation does not need to be 100% true, it's sufficient if it's true to a very large degree.

So if your expectation is that generalisations about music are taken back, then that's not going to happen. If you are looking for a concession that not all hip-hop and rap artists are throwaway material when it comes to political topics, then sure, you can certainly have that from me. But I am still left guessing what you want.

So you admit you made errant generalizations then. Bingo! End of. 

Lol, I was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it.  I guess we do not need to go any further in this topic.



RolStoppable said:
Machiavellian said:

Maybe he just wants to label you 2 has ignorant.  Its pretty much what I have done.  Nothing wrong with being ignorant on a subject, unless you actually going to profess you have knowledge then its a totally different event.

I suppose this means your stance on this particular conflict could be summed up as "LurkerJ and Rol were right for the wrong reason," because you don't share the sentiment that West's speech was amazing.

Your post on topic for reference: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8901635

The thing is, I separate Kanye the person from his music or the genre.  I pretty much do this for any celebrity.  Just because I like what they do for work doesn't mean I want to hear their personal opinion on any particular subject.  

To answer your direct question, I can agree the speech was a rambling mess with some decent nuggets but nothing I would share as anything special.



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COKTOE said:
jason1637 said:

He is in the top 5% of the population. He has a really high IQ.

He claims to have a high IQ. I've never seen any proof that he actually does.

A lot of the music he produces and things he say prove that he's genius. Also his doctor said his IQ is high so yeah.



I have great respect for Kanye West as a musician. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is one of my top 20 favorite albums of all time.

When it comes to political comments though, meh....

I think his speech at the white house was completely incoherent. He throws a good point once in a while, but most of it just doesn't make sense.

I mean you are supposed to vote for a politician based on politics, not because of feelings like 'male energy'. You can use that kind of argument for anything, but it just makes you look stupid, as if you don't actually have a reason to vote for that guy.

Another non-argument he is using is when he is bringing up the multiverse theory to justify why he wants Larry Hoover out of jail, because that makes total sense...

Also 'Make America Great' instead of 'Make America Great Again' because time is a myth???

About gun violence he just says the problem is illegal guns not legal. That at the very least require him to elaborate if he wants that point to be taken seriously, since gun violence can and is clearly happening with legal guns as well.

I am sure he was trying to make a point about the 13th amendment, but what he said made zero sense to me. He didn't make that point clear at all, it was something with buildings not having 13 floors.

He does make a few nice statements though, like bringing jobs back to middle america. And that we need to care about all people, not just black people.

But overall, he is even worse than his idol at constructing arguments. Also I hope he gets his bipolar or sleep deficit issues solved before he runs for president, I guess there is no lower bar for who can get elected, it seems some people here are already happy to vote him in office. One can only hope he reclaims some of his sanity before that.



PortisheadBiscuit said:
RolStoppable said:

You continue to do your best to refrain from saying what exactly your issue is and what you want.

Do I have to make guesses until I hit the jackpot? It would have been a lot more productive if you posted more than "No, that's not it."

What I am sure about is that you and others didn't like the generalisation about hip-hop and rap music, but the only counter-arguments that were presented point to sub-genres and music that isn't popular enough to be played on the radio. That's as substantial as someone pointing out that there are punk rock bands with political lyrics who play in front of 100-200 people and sell a few thousand CDs; clearly not mainstream. A generalisation does not need to be 100% true, it's sufficient if it's true to a very large degree.

So if your expectation is that generalisations about music are taken back, then that's not going to happen. If you are looking for a concession that not all hip-hop and rap artists are throwaway material when it comes to political topics, then sure, you can certainly have that from me. But I am still left guessing what you want.

So you admit you made errant generalizations then. Bingo! End of. 

Where did he admit the "errant" part? 



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Mr Puggsly said:
OhNoYouDont said:

That's not what I said though. I said low IQ people tend to be racist and conservative. I did not say that conservatives tend to be low IQ. 

In other words, if you have a low IQ you tend to lean to the right and you tend to be racist. 

Limitations on voting are like Jim Crow era laws man, they serve no purpose but to prevent people from casting their vote. The downtrodden may have no reason to have a driver's license and surely they should have representation?

I think you're a bit hyperbolic about criminals voting. Certainly someone who has served their time to society should have their voting rights restored upon release?

Well that's how the system works my dude. Everybody gets to vote, even the idiots. Let's not pretend the common American understands anything about politics either. Most Americans are profoundly ignorant about the candidates and simply cheers for his or her team. And it works reasonably well, to be honest. Like my man Thanos says: balance in all things.

I get what you're saying, I'm arguing we downplay the dregs of society that vote democrat. Maybe the problem with left leaning people is they're so low IQ they can't figure out how to vote. Studies show a vast majority of criminals vote democrat. That explains why dems care about the voting right of criminals, that's their people. There is certainly a correlation between bad communities and democrats.

I'm not arguing the average American is savvy on politics. I'm arguing dems love to boast how brilliant their voters are while ignoring they also get huge support from societies most useless. Not only that, dems spends a fortune trying to get ignorant people to support them. Dems don't care if their voters are intelligent, they just hate anybody that opposes them having power.

Well it's such an minute percentage of democrats that I don't think it can even be downplayed. These people certainly exist, but not to a significant degree.

Democrats as a whole are indeed better educated than Republicans, which is where the narrative stems from:

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/

Mr Puggsly said: 

Compared to the democrats, republicans have shown they certainly care more about responsible spending, or at least reducing spending.

Doesn't seem that way to me.

  • Fiscal 2009: $1.4 trillion (Obama’s first year and in the teeth of the Recession)
  • Fiscal 2010: $1.3 trillion
  • Fiscal 2011: $1.3 trillion
  • Fiscal 2012: $1.1 trillion
  • Fiscal 2013: $680 billion
  • Fiscal 2014: $485 billion
  • Fiscal 2015: $438 billion
  • Fiscal 2016: $587 billion
  • Fiscal 2017: $666 billion (Trump’s first year of his Presidency)
  • Fiscal 2018: $779 billion (EST)


OhNoYouDont said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I get what you're saying, I'm arguing we downplay the dregs of society that vote democrat. Maybe the problem with left leaning people is they're so low IQ they can't figure out how to vote. Studies show a vast majority of criminals vote democrat. That explains why dems care about the voting right of criminals, that's their people. There is certainly a correlation between bad communities and democrats.

I'm not arguing the average American is savvy on politics. I'm arguing dems love to boast how brilliant their voters are while ignoring they also get huge support from societies most useless. Not only that, dems spends a fortune trying to get ignorant people to support them. Dems don't care if their voters are intelligent, they just hate anybody that opposes them having power.

Well it's such an minute percentage of democrats that I don't think it can even be downplayed. These people certainly exist, but not to a significant degree.

Democrats as a whole are indeed better educated than Republicans, which is where the narrative stems from:

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/

Mr Puggsly said: 

Compared to the democrats, republicans have shown they certainly care more about responsible spending, or at least reducing spending.

Doesn't seem that way to me.

  • Fiscal 2009: $1.4 trillion (Obama’s first year and in the teeth of the Recession)
  • Fiscal 2010: $1.3 trillion
  • Fiscal 2011: $1.3 trillion
  • Fiscal 2012: $1.1 trillion
  • Fiscal 2013: $680 billion
  • Fiscal 2014: $485 billion
  • Fiscal 2015: $438 billion
  • Fiscal 2016: $587 billion
  • Fiscal 2017: $666 billion (Trump’s first year of his Presidency)
  • Fiscal 2018: $779 billion (EST)

 

Plenty of "these people" exist. Which is why dems fight for the those votes.

Im not arguing their voters are not more educated. Based on percentages its not a massive disparity, more women tend to go to college, etc. I go to Starbucks, I see plenty of college educated people working there. I imagine these intellectual elites are generally voting democrat.

I don't respect people simply because they have more formal education, especially with so many people and not really utilizing it. That partly why there is massive debt among college educated people. Unsurprisingly dems are the party entertaining erasing that debt, pandering much?

 

I'm no expert on the subject but I dont think a president controls all the spending. Trump inherited a government with excessive spending and is trying to reduce the size of government, federal employees, etc. Anywho, I dont expect the excessive spending to be addressed until it has to be regardless if its a democrat or republicans in the white house. One of the biggest criticisms of Trump among republicans is he doesn't push back enough when it comes to expensive budget increases requested by democrats, which leads to government shutdowns and what not. Its not really a debate, democrats campaign on high taxes and increased spending.

Also, why do people keep ignoring the rest of my comment?  I said vote for libertarians if you really care about responsible spending.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 17 October 2018

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