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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Mass shooting at EA Madden tournament in Jacksonville, Florida

m0ney on 28 August 2018
JRPGfan said:

Its crazy to me you americans think its okay for a mental ill person to just go in and buy a gun (or keep owning one).

What could possibly go wrong?
Not to mention you guys probably have tons of people with mental illnesses not getting any treatment, because of your medical system.

There is no line what is mental illness and what is not. Should depression be? Every other person gets depressed, and it has no connection with violence. More people than we think have problems, normal looking people walking on streets can have all kinds of mental problems, should they all be locked up in asylums? Many sick people hide their personas, for example the Austrian electrician who kept two girls chained in a basement for many years.



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JRPGfan on 28 August 2018
m0ney said:
JRPGfan said:

Its crazy to me you americans think its okay for a mental ill person to just go in and buy a gun (or keep owning one).

What could possibly go wrong?
Not to mention you guys probably have tons of people with mental illnesses not getting any treatment, because of your medical system.

There is no line what is mental illness and what is not. Should depression be? Every other person gets depressed, and it has no connection with violence. More people than we think have problems, normal looking people walking on streets can have all kinds of mental problems, should they all be locked up in asylums? Many sick people hide their personas, for example the Austrian electrician who kept two girls chained in a basement for many years.

Any and ALL mental illness = no guns allowed.

Yes that depressed guy/gal *might* only off himself with it, but even then, yeah he probably shouldnt own a gun (increased likely hood of suicide).
Even depression probably leads to mass shootings, so yes even depression.

 

"normal looking people walking on streets can have all kinds of mental problems, should they all be locked up in asylums?"

They should have mental health care free of charge, so you know their all as "right" in the head as possible.
It leads to a better society. They shouldnt be locked up, but  none of them should be allowed to own a gun imo (if you know they have mental issues).

 

Look at the last shooter, in this EA madden tournament.
The government "knew" he was mentalily ill and recieveing treatments.
He should be on a list that says  "you cant buy or own a gun".
If he already owned one, someone should have been sent to confiscate his weapons.

If that was the case, this mass-shooting wouldnt have happend.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 28 August 2018

Aeolus451 on 28 August 2018
RolStoppable said:
Aeolus451 said:

That's just in your vaunted opinion. You didn't provide anything to counter me or the studies. You just dismissed it out of hand. What I linked provides actual facts to counter the narrative that guns only kill people in mass shooting or murders in the US. It's especially relevant in discussions about shootings and gun control. Guns in the US save more lives in self-defense against all crime than they are used in murders/mass shootings. The source studies are objective and provide more light on guns. 

I didn't have to provide anything to counter your links because they didn't contain anything of value. Fact is that the USA has a problem that doesn't exist in other developed countries, because said countries have superior gun control laws. It's you who has to provide evidence that the laws in the USA are not clearly inferior in comparison to other developed countries. That's very similar to healthcare where the USA lags significantly behind other developed countries.

What you intended to counter with your links are arguments that hadn't even been made in this thread, that's why none of it is of substance. The actual argument is that the USA has a problem and gun control laws need to be improved.

Lastly, I didn't dismiss your links out of hand. I pointed out how sketchy the statistics are, because it's incredibly farfetched that guns used in self-defense saved so many lives. Such studies put forward an argument that ~200k people would be shot dead in the USA per year without guns as self-defense and that's outright preposterous; if that were true, then the USA's problems would be much, much more severe than they are in reality. Another link was pages of general information and if you demand a proper discussion, then it's on you to quote relevant excerpts for your argument.

 If you're gonna counter my argument and sources then use sources of your own or spare me your ego and go back to your ninty threads. I'm not gonna bother with you if respond with more of the same.



Aeolus451 on 28 August 2018
RolStoppable said:
Aeolus451 said:

 If you're gonna counter my argument and sources then use sources of your own or spare me your ego and go back to your ninty threads. I'm not gonna bother with you if respond with more of the same.

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

Five charts in the link, the most relevant ones are the third and fourth one.

"The US makes up less than 5% of the world's population, but holds 31% of global mass shooters"
"Gun homicide rates are 25.2 times higher in the US than in other high-income countries"

Doesn't address lives saved now does it? Why did you link it? That's rhetorical by the way. Shoo. Off to the ninty threads with you. 



Peh on 28 August 2018
SpokenTruth said:
JRPGfan said:

Isnt there a law that says something like "if your mental ill, you cannot own a gun" (or if you develope a mental illness, it gets taken away) ?

You would think there was overview of who owns guns, and if they deveope any sudden mental related illnesses.
And someone to put that knowledge into effect, as to save lives.

One of the first things Trump did when he took office was use an executive order to remove an Obama era law that added mental health issues to the gun registration background database.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

 

This guy bought his guns after Trump revoked the law thus allowing him to purchase the guns.

I said that I wouldn't post in this thread, because Nautilus didn't want the discussion to go the way it actually did, as I predicted.

But those deaths go on Trump. He made it possible for this guy to obtain a gun and shoot at people. 



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Aeolus451 on 28 August 2018
RolStoppable said:
Aeolus451 said:

Doesn't address lives saved now does it? Why did you link it? That's rhetorical by the way. Shoo. Off to the ninty threads with you. 

Actually, it does address your argument. Saving all those lives in the USA comes at the cost of 25 times more people getting killed by guns than in other developed countries. Is such a tradeoff good in your eyes?

 Alot more people use guns to protect themselves from all crime than to murder people by gun in the US. That's in fact a net positive. If guns were made illegal tomorrow, the US would suffer across the board from it because people couldn't legally protect themselves anymore. 

It doesn't matter what happens in some other country because they don't have same the culture, laws, issues or pros the US has. That's also you trying to change the goal post because you can't defeat my claim on its own ground.



Lafiel on 28 August 2018
numberwang said:

Some people crawled through his social media. He was sperging about video games & 'Trumptards' on reddit, was hospitalized because of metal illness and took medications. Dysfunctional family as well, like nearly all mass shooters.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/02/27/of_27_deadliest_mass_shooters_26_of_them_were_fatherless_435596.html

 the account u/ravenchamps has nothing to do with David Katz

were the misinformation came from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditCritiques/comments/9alozc/david_katz_aka_uravenchamps/

reaction by the user:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/9av2g3/im_apparently_the_madden_shooter_whats_up/

Last edited by Lafiel - on 28 August 2018

numberwang on 28 August 2018
SpokenTruth said:
JRPGfan said:

Isnt there a law that says something like "if your mental ill, you cannot own a gun" (or if you develope a mental illness, it gets taken away) ?

You would think there was overview of who owns guns, and if they deveope any sudden mental related illnesses.
And someone to put that knowledge into effect, as to save lives.

One of the first things Trump did when he took office was use an executive order to remove an Obama era law that added mental health issues to the gun registration background database.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

This guy bought his guns after Trump revoked the law thus allowing him to purchase the guns.

None of that is true. The Obama laws gave a prejudiced ban against anyone on social security with any mental problems regardless if it impacted his capability to carry a gun -- unconstitutional, discriminatory and ineffective.

The thousands of Americans whose disability benefits are managed by someone else range from young people with depression and financial inexperience to older adults with Down syndrome needing help with a limited budget. But no data — none — show that these individuals have a propensity for violence in general or gun violence in particular. To the contrary, studies show that people with mental disabilities are less likely to commit firearm crimes than to be the victims of violence by others.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-rights/gun-control-laws-should-be-fair

Katz was not on Social security and was not affected by these regulations.

Last edited by numberwang - on 28 August 2018

Machiavellian on 28 August 2018
SpokenTruth said:
JRPGfan said:

Isnt there a law that says something like "if your mental ill, you cannot own a gun" (or if you develope a mental illness, it gets taken away) ?

You would think there was overview of who owns guns, and if they deveope any sudden mental related illnesses.
And someone to put that knowledge into effect, as to save lives.

One of the first things Trump did when he took office was use an executive order to remove an Obama era law that added mental health issues to the gun registration background database.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

 

This guy bought his guns after Trump revoked the law thus allowing him to purchase the guns.

Maybe that is why he has been so quiet on the issue.



Machiavellian on 28 August 2018
numberwang said:
SpokenTruth said:

One of the first things Trump did when he took office was use an executive order to remove an Obama era law that added mental health issues to the gun registration background database.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

This guy bought his guns after Trump revoked the law thus allowing him to purchase the guns.

None of that is true. The Obama laws gave a prejudiced ban against anyone on social security with any mental problems regardless if it impacted his capability to carry a gun -- unconstitutional, discriminatory and ineffective.

The thousands of Americans whose disability benefits are managed by someone else range from young people with depression and financial inexperience to older adults with Down syndrome needing help with a limited budget. But no data — none — show that these individuals have a propensity for violence in general or gun violence in particular. To the contrary, studies show that people with mental disabilities are less likely to commit firearm crimes than to be the victims of violence by others.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-rights/gun-control-laws-should-be-fair

Katz was not on Social security and was not affected by these regulations.

Isn't the whole fact that we do not have any studies on gun violence is because the NRA has blocked it for 20 years.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-research-funding-20160614-snap-story.html

There is a light at the end of the Tunnel and it appear that the CDC this year has been granted support to research gun violence

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/03/23/596413510/proposed-budget-allows-cdc-to-study-gun-violence-researchers-skeptical

Only problem is that there is no funding in that budget to do anything.  Oh well, you have to take your small victories any way possible.