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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Confirmed: Next Gen Xbox Codenamed Scarlet.

Chazore on 11 June 2018
Azzanation said:
Manlytears said:

Do you wanna make a bet? Sure, we are going to see crossgen, and perhaps you will be able to use a X1X and X1S console to "stream Xbox scarlet games", but "True support and development for X1X is not happening".

Microsoft "end of console generations" is bullshit. Soon X1X will be just another console outdated.

Next gen is clearly going to be pushing technology however what about those PC ports, do all these devs think that PC gamers are going to be running with 10+ TF gaming PCs on average just to run PS5/XB2 games? They barely have 4TF on average, does that mean next gen games wont work on PCs? Because if it can work on a low level PCs than it can work on the X, and MS will make sure that's the case if they go that PC route.

Are you trying to suggest that next gen, "don't port games to PC"?. because that sounds it.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

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DirtyP2002 on 11 June 2018
Chazore said:
Azzanation said:

Next gen is clearly going to be pushing technology however what about those PC ports, do all these devs think that PC gamers are going to be running with 10+ TF gaming PCs on average just to run PS5/XB2 games? They barely have 4TF on average, does that mean next gen games wont work on PCs? Because if it can work on a low level PCs than it can work on the X, and MS will make sure that's the case if they go that PC route.

Are you trying to suggest that next gen, "don't port games to PC"?. because that sounds it.

I thought we knew that games are scalable?

Xbox One X is not hold back by Xbox One S
High-End gaming PCs will not be hold back by average gaming PCs.

At the beginning of a new generation of consoles, PCs do run the same games that the new consoles do. But it is not possible to buy a $399 - $499 PC that runs the latest games in 4k / 60 FPS like the new consoles do. So that is a big advantage for consoles. But PCs will become more affordable and will obviously still be supported from day one.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

DonFerrari on 11 June 2018
Azzanation said:
Manlytears said:

Let me ask you:

1. Do you realy belive developers will support X1X for at least 8 years ( 2018 -2025)? Do you belive any developer would support hardware that will be luck to be at 10M in 2020 for such longtime.

 

2. Do you think the current Jaguar cpu ( said to be very weak and "small step" over ps3 cell cpu) on scorpion can be compared whit the rumored Ryzen cpus set for nextgen?

http://www.redgamingtech.com/ubisoft-gdc-presentation-of-ps4-x1-gpu-cpu-performance/

 

3. Do you think developers will spend resources just to please a very small number of x1x users? That they will hold back nextgen consoles just to port games to x1x?

 

4. Do you realy think X1X "cost x benefice" will manage to keep up whit nextgen consoles? Do you think the ancient tech. Used on X1s and x1x will hold anything over nextgen?

 

Dude, X1X is a PR move, MS just created it to talk about "power advantage" and make fans happy. The "end of generations" talk is bullshit! Streaming have a good chance of ending genaration and consoles, but x1x got nothing.

If they support low level PCs next gen than sure, the X will be considered a low level PC and be supported because it will be part of Xbox's ecosystem which will support there next Xbox and the previous ones mainly the X.

Let me ask you this, do you think next generation developers aren't going to care for the 10s of millions of PC gamers because there hardware isn't up to PS5/XB2 standards?

I was running Doom 2016 on my 2010 AMD 6970 2gig VRAM.. that's .600 TF in case you needed to compare the specs difference. It wasn't ideal as I was playing the game at 30 frames and 1080p but it was still very playable and I finished the game before I upgraded my PC to what it is today. If my 2010 GPU can run Doom 2016 than I see no issue with the X running next gen games.

That may be the reason why were are still seeing plenty of X360 games being released, would they ignore a 90M userbase right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 11 June 2018
Azzanation said:
Manlytears said: 

I get your point and logic. If the game is 4k/60 on next gen why not port it 1080p/30 on last gen? The awser is simple,  the last gen sales are weak and the diference in visual and performance is just too big! Just look at the sales of non-crossgen games like titanfall, rise of tomb raider and Shadow of mordor, the last gen ports sold much less than the next gen version!   http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=72892   http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=84683     http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=77128

 no good sales = no last gen ports.

It's the same logic of "why not make a nintendo switch port"

Edit:

One more thing, the "it still works, just inferior version" narrative doesn't sit well whit x1x avarenge user. I mean, most x1x users are gamers that want the best performance, they are people that want and can pay for premium! Why would they keep scorpion when they can play on nextgen xbox? Also, please don't talk about making scorpion an "entry model whit low price", things don't work like this. Nextgen will have much better tech, especially on cpu front, and x1x will not be able to match cost X benefice of nextgen. That said, price advantage will be meaningless, most people will just buy the new consoles.

That's where I see the next Xbox being marketed very differently compared to Sony's PS5. If MS go the PC no Gen route than its very possible to make the next Xbox very powerful but still being able to keep the other X1s as cheap alternatives. Yes they will struggle without a doubt but price wise not everyone will want to upgrade straight away. Tomb Raider 2013 and Forza Horizon 2 came out on the 360 so I see a similar method being applied to there next system without actually having to heavily code the games to run on the platforms. Its all just a possibility not a reality. PC do it, I cant see why consoles cant. 

HoloDust said:

I really can't say I've followed much of your convo, but:

6970 is 2.7 TFLOPS GPU...that performs slightly to 20% (depending on the game) below R7 265 (1.84 TFLOPS GPU). R7 265 is, more or less, performance level of PS4's GPU.

You are right, I misread the specs on that card. either way it was a very weak card with not enough Ram to keep up with Doom. I still managed to play it at 1080p and it held a solid 30 frames most of the time but when the effects started to jump in, my card started to show its age and I was playing it on Low/Medium settings. There were times I walked in a room and the card didn't even draw up the walls and it had this bright pink flat shaded look, it wasn't a good look for a game like Doom haha. 

Sorry but no... a console with the specs of X1X could possibly be an entry level for cheap price next gen, but the solution MS gone for X1X won't ever be a cheap console as much as PS3 couldn't ever really go 99 USD as did PS1 and PS2. It can't be made cheap enough in 2 years to be a 199 console versus PS5 and Nextbox.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

AlfredoTurkey on 11 June 2018
Kyuu said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

That's because Xbox One X is still... just an Xbox One. 

But what if Scarlet is... just an Xbox One X?

Microsoft is both confused and confusing right now. Announcing Scarlet this early suggests that the X was poorly timed and overpriced.

If it's just another Xbox One, no one is going to give a shit and their entire business model will crumble. You can't keep launching the same console over and over again. Especially one that is losing WW pretty badly. They HAVE to come up with something brand new.



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Azzanation on 11 June 2018
DonFerrari said: 
  

That may be the reason why were are still seeing plenty of X360 games being released, would they ignore a 90M userbase right?

Oh Don, like usual the point has gotten way over your head. 360 is not the same architecture as the X1 and PC (You knew that right?), as you could see the 360 still managed to run games like Tomb Raider fine on its inferior hardware however its different architecture makes things very difficult to port games and scale games across. Its a lot easier to port a game to PC and X1 and all they really have to do for the X is downscale it like how most PC games have extremely low settings for gamers with inferior PCs. Its really not that hard to understand, than again this is the forums.



Soundwave on 11 June 2018
Julianpd83 said:

It's funny how sony  can announce the playstation 4 is at the end of its life cycle and everyone praises them for getting ready but when Microsoft does it you guys spell doom hypocrisy at its finest

Yep, no one freaked out when PS4 Pro was announced and everyone is cheering for PS5 news but heaven forbid if MS dares to whisper about a new console. XBox One X is the best traditional home console hardware by a good margin, there's a good chance IMO that Scarlet will be better hardware than the PS5. MS has realized they need to have the best hardware. 



LudicrousSpeed on 11 June 2018

lol, all the cross gen games we saw at the start of this gen and suddenly devs are gonna just ignore the Scorpio. Are they gonna ignore the PS4, too? Because if they’re making a PS4 version of these games why would they not make an Xbox version.

Per usual Papa Phil playing checkers and then people use his words to try and play chess. Also what’s this streaming talk? He’s on record saying he doesn’t agree with what the Ubi guy said.



Pemalite on 11 June 2018
JRPGfan said:
Pemalite said:

I'll let you know as we get closer to this time next year. ;)

Xbox One X wont even have 2 full years on the market before Its replaced by a Xbox Two? jeez.

As someone who loves new tech, not a bad problem to have.

loy310 said:

Pfft, what about the head start it got on the Switch, in a year it will outsell XB, being 1st dont mean jack. They gonna have to head start by 3 years to run away with it.

To be fair though, Nintendo does target different demographics than Sony and Microsoft on the whole.

 

Azzanation said:

Next gen is clearly going to be pushing technology however what about those PC ports, do all these devs think that PC gamers are going to be running with 10+ TF gaming PCs on average just to run PS5/XB2 games?

* There is more to performance to flops.
* Games/Game Engines tend to be scalable as well.
* Launch games tend not to push console hardware to it's absolute limits.

Azzanation said:

They barely have 4TF on average, does that mean next gen games wont work on PCs?

* Flops isn't everything.
People are using flops like they used to use "bits". It's not accurate.

Azzanation said:

 Because if it can work on a low level PCs than it can work on the X, and MS will make sure that's the case if they go that PC route.

The Xbox One X's CPU is it's weak point.

Azzanation said:

If they support low level PCs next gen than sure, the X will be considered a low level PC and be supported because it will be part of Xbox's ecosystem which will support there next Xbox and the previous ones mainly the X.

The Xbox One X is essentially a Mid-Range PC with a low-end CPU.


Azzanation said:

Let me ask you this, do you think next generation developers aren't going to care for the 10s of millions of PC gamers because there hardware isn't up to PS5/XB2 standards?

They don't have to care.
The PC goes through this transition EVERY SINGLE console generation, we are heading into the 9th generation of consoles, I can assure you... What you describe is a non-issue.
It's never even been an issue.

Azzanation said:

I was running Doom 2016 on my 2010 AMD 6970 2gig VRAM.. that's .600 TF

False.
I should know, I was running four Radeon 6950's unlocked and modded into 6970's and running games at 7680x1440.
They are actually 2.7 Teraflop GPU's.
Remember... Shaders * 2 instructions * clock === 1536 * 2 * 880 = 2.7 Teraflops.

Azzanation said:


in case you needed to compare the specs difference. It wasn't ideal as I was playing the game at 30 frames and 1080p but it was still very playable and I finished the game before I upgraded my PC to what it is today. If my 2010 GPU can run Doom 2016 than I see no issue with the X running next gen games.

The 6970's are old Terascale/VLIW4 GPU's. They are simply inefficient and tend to be more efficient at Direct X 9.0 workloads than say... Direct X 11, it is one of the Pro's/Con's of VLIW.
I actually have a 6950 unlocked into a 6970 sitting on the shelf staring right at me right now.

HoloDust said:

I really can't say I've followed much of your convo, but:

6970 is 2.7 TFLOPS GPU...that performs slightly to 20% (depending on the game) below R7 265 (1.84 TFLOPS GPU). R7 265 is, more or less, performance level of PS4's GPU.

The Radeon R7 265 is a slightly boosted Radeon 7850 from what I can tell.
But for modern games... You can bet your ass I'll choose the 7850 over a Radeon 6970, despite the 6970 having a "1 Teraflop" more than the 7850.

Terascale simply hasn't aged well.

CGI-Quality said:

High-End Gaming PCs will always be held by by lower common denominators, because games aren't being made for them. Yes, people who have those types of rigs can enjoy advantages, by none of my highest end parts are being taken advantage of. 

High-end PC games tend to dump most of their spare resources pumping up resolutions/framerates. I.E. Super Sampling/120fps and so on anyway.

Azzanation said:

Oh Don, like usual the point has gotten way over your head. 360 is not the same architecture as the X1 and PC (You knew that right?)

There is a ton of similar technology that the Xbox 360 inherited from the PC, case in point... The Xbox 360 had a rudimentary Tessellator that was taken from ATI's PC GPU's, something that wouldn't become standardized until this console generation/Direct X 11.

The fact it's CPU is of a different ISA is probably the largest differentiator.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Soundwave on 11 June 2018

XBox One X and PS4 Pro will be getting new games through 2021 if not 2022 and XBox One X will have the better looking version of games between the two. Book it, people are complaining over nothing.

No developer is any rush to have their dev costs double/triple for XBox Scarlet/PS5's sake while ignoring that PS4/XB1 userbases will be well past 120 million strong.

Cross gen titles are gonna happen for years and years.

How much realistically can a Scarlet/PS5 be above a XBox One X anyway? 12-14 TFLOPs? XBox One X will be able to handle multi-plats from those systems for a long while yet.