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I'm tired of this overemphasis on diversity spilling into our entertainment.

Forums - General Discussion - I'm tired of this overemphasis on diversity spilling into our entertainment.

Azuren said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yeah, and Hope County doesn't exist. You can dispute the demographics all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they can use whichever demographics they want for a county that doesn't even exist.

Montana doesn't have that many black people. Representing that many black people in the game is not indicative of the known population of Montana. It's an example of diversity for diversity's sake.

Again, it's not a real-life version of Montana, it's a fictional version of it with creative liberties taken, they're not going for complete accuracy.



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FentonCrackshell said:
So which way can diversity be put into something for it not be seen as "forced"? Because whenever even something isn't lead by a SWM its always seem as pushing something "down our throats". I remember a hospital show starring Jada Pinkett Smith some years ago that featured a black female Nurse lead, her Indian best friend, and white male doctor. This is probably a great many hospitals with a staff like this but people called it "forced diversity". It's pretty much whenever a cast isn't 90% white with a token minority that this sort of complaint occurs. I really don't GAF if there's diversity or not. If it's good I'll watch it. But many of you have to admit you all steer clear of vehicles helmed by a mostly minority cast. It's why there's Asian/Black/Indian Cinema and no "White Cinema". White is seen as the norm and therefore needs no category. And if seeing "forced diversity" makes you less accepting of diversity then you were never doing to accept it in the first place.

But look, if it makes you softy non-minorities feel good please note that most of us are all FOS as you are. We cry about made up sh!t like "cultural appropriation". The folks who always point fingers and whine about this are the ones who have no issue with "forced diversity" (AKA real-life BTW). And the people who decry mentions of cultural appropriation will argue against more than 3 minorities in a cast of characters. Anyway, cultural appropriation is often mentioned by the same folks who want us to accepts each other's cultures and differences. But it seems this doesn't extend to white people. This is why Nicki Minaj, Beyoncé, etc. can wear blonde hair weave with no consequence but Kylie Jenner is lambasted for braiding her hair. It's why a white teenage girl is blasted for wearing an Asian dress to prom but Taraji P. Hensen (black woman) was cheered for wearing the same dress. It's all such bullsh!t! Things like this are why I've become so misanthropic. People are disgusting and find the most ridiculous things to use as division.

And I see a poster on here talking about how Horizon forced them to play as a woman and didn't give them a choice. GTFOH with that bullsh!t! What you wanna do is play as a SWM a la Nathan Drake and seeing the woman as the hero made you uncomfortable. Similar to how Chloe and Nadine as mains in Uncharted was met with "you expect us to believe 2 women can overpower an army" but SWM Nathan Drake did so for over a decade with nary an eye-roll. It's why I've had the argument that Zazie Beets' Domino has an impractical Afro and it's dumb because all bad guys have to do is grab her by her hair. As if they can't also grab Thor and Widow by the hair. People are absolutely full of steaming piles of sh!t! But feel free to say the same to me. Good day!

 

Look, captain no reading, all you have to do to fix your diversity problem is to NOT CHANGE EXISTING STORIES AND CHARACTERS just to fulfill your agenda. You have every right to make NEW STORIES AND NEW CHARACTERS. Just don't fucking change the ones we already like and we are already invested in. It's been mentioned in this thread so many times already. There's no problem with playing female or black characters. BUT DONT FORCE THEM INTO CHARACTERS THAT ARENT LIKE THAT. 

 

IF A CHARACTER WAS WRITTEN WHITE, THEN HES WHITE. IF HES STRAIGHT, HES STRAIGHT. IF HES A MAN, HES A MAN.

 

Just like you don't want people to mess with black, Asian, and female characters, it shouldn't be done to any characters at all. When Scarlett Johansson was cast in ghost in the shell, it was called whitewashing. I agreed and I thought it was a bad decision. But it's also a bad decision to turn the human torch black! It's also a bad decision to turn the Ghostbusters cast totally female without even a nod to the originals!

 

READ!



I remember when an uncle of mine complained about there being too many black people in the crowd in the NHL video games, probably a most extreme example of somebody complaining about diversity in a game.



TranceformerFX said:
I think the most egregious example of forced diversity in a video game is black people in "Middle Earth: Shadow of War". J.R.R. Tolkein is probably rolling in his grave, and I'm surprised Christopher Tolkein didn't comment on it, considering he adores the LOTR lore just as much as his father.

I agree with you, or black people on Nordic theme movies, it is just innacurate with reality.



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FentonCrackshell said:
So which way can diversity be put into something for it not be seen as "forced"? Because whenever even something isn't lead by a SWM its always seem as pushing something "down our throats". I remember a hospital show starring Jada Pinkett Smith some years ago that featured a black female Nurse lead, her Indian best friend, and white male doctor. This is probably a great many hospitals with a staff like this but people called it "forced diversity". It's pretty much whenever a cast isn't 90% white with a token minority that this sort of complaint occurs. I really don't GAF if there's diversity or not. If it's good I'll watch it. But many of you have to admit you all steer clear of vehicles helmed by a mostly minority cast. It's why there's Asian/Black/Indian Cinema and no "White Cinema". White is seen as the norm and therefore needs no category. And if seeing "forced diversity" makes you less accepting of diversity then you were never doing to accept it in the first place.

But look, if it makes you softy non-minorities feel good please note that most of us are all FOS as you are. We cry about made up sh!t like "cultural appropriation". The folks who always point fingers and whine about this are the ones who have no issue with "forced diversity" (AKA real-life BTW). And the people who decry mentions of cultural appropriation will argue against more than 3 minorities in a cast of characters. Anyway, cultural appropriation is often mentioned by the same folks who want us to accepts each other's cultures and differences. But it seems this doesn't extend to white people. This is why Nicki Minaj, Beyoncé, etc. can wear blonde hair weave with no consequence but Kylie Jenner is lambasted for braiding her hair. It's why a white teenage girl is blasted for wearing an Asian dress to prom but Taraji P. Hensen (black woman) was cheered for wearing the same dress. It's all such bullsh!t! Things like this are why I've become so misanthropic. People are disgusting and find the most ridiculous things to use as division.

And I see a poster on here talking about how Horizon forced them to play as a woman and didn't give them a choice. GTFOH with that bullsh!t! What you wanna do is play as a SWM a la Nathan Drake and seeing the woman as the hero made you uncomfortable. Similar to how Chloe and Nadine as mains in Uncharted was met with "you expect us to believe 2 women can overpower an army" but SWM Nathan Drake did so for over a decade with nary an eye-roll. It's why I've had the argument that Zazie Beets' Domino has an impractical Afro and it's dumb because all bad guys have to do is grab her by her hair. As if they can't also grab Thor and Widow by the hair. People are absolutely full of steaming piles of sh!t! But feel free to say the same to me. Good day!

I agree with most of what you said, and although I don't care if a show have only black people (even though that is 0 diversity) or have a lot of different ethinicities even if completely off of demographics on the place... but I agree with the notion that it is a distortion to make a population that is like 90-9-1 into 33-33-33 on a show, but as long as it is good I don't care (of course if that wasn't just forced change on previous materials).

VGPolyglot said:
Azuren said:

Montana doesn't have that many black people. Representing that many black people in the game is not indicative of the known population of Montana. It's an example of diversity for diversity's sake.

Again, it's not a real-life version of Montana, it's a fictional version of it with creative liberties taken, they're not going for complete accuracy.

So why call it Montana and not just give it a city in a country that doesn't exist?

HomokHarcos said:

I remember when an uncle of mine complained about there being too many black people in the crowd in the NHL video games, probably a most extreme example of somebody complaining about diversity in a game.

I haven't been in a Hockey game, but was him right that there is very few black on the crowd for the RL game?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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TranceformerFX said:
I think the most egregious example of forced diversity in a video game is black people in "Middle Earth: Shadow of War". J.R.R. Tolkein is probably rolling in his grave, and I'm surprised Christopher Tolkein didn't comment on it, considering he adores the LOTR lore just as much as his father.

Black people in the LOTR universe come from the continent of Haradrim.  

There were black characters in the original Lord of the Rings trilogy.  

So no, it's not pushing to have a black character in the game.  



the-pi-guy said:
TranceformerFX said:
I think the most egregious example of forced diversity in a video game is black people in "Middle Earth: Shadow of War". J.R.R. Tolkein is probably rolling in his grave, and I'm surprised Christopher Tolkein didn't comment on it, considering he adores the LOTR lore just as much as his father.

Black people in the LOTR universe come from the continent of Haradrim.  

There were black characters in the original Lord of the Rings trilogy.  

So no, it's not pushing to have a black character in the game.  

From what I remember of the book it talks about some "middle continent" or something like that, which have some black or arabic looking people.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

VGPolyglot said:
Mandalore76 said:

This is diversity for diversity's sake (as I've said before):

"The makers of the rebooted Star Trek movies decided to make an established character (Sulu) gay, completely out of the blue, in the 3rd movie of their franchise.  They asked the actor, George Takei, who played Sulu in the original series and movies for his blessing, thinking they would get it easily since he is openly gay in real life.  He told them very clearly, that he portrayed the character as a heterosexual male throughout his entire career, because that was the character that Gene Roddenberry created.  Takei said that he was all for an openly gay character in Star Trek, but that they should create their own character rather than paste the sexuality onto an existing one.  The new Star Trek filmmakers, who claimed they wanted Takei's blessing in the first place, turned around and made their version of Sulu gay anyway.  That was a complete slap in the face to George Takei, basically telling him, "You're gay, so Sulu must also be gay too."  It's also a complete insult to Takei's acting abilities, saying that he couldn't possibly have been portraying a character all those years that wasn't a complete match of his actual sexuality.  The rebooted Star Trek doesn't even take place in an alternate universe where this sudden change would make sense.  It's only supposed to be an alternate timeline.  Sulu was an adult male already when Spock and Nero went back in time and altered the timeline.  How did Nero going back in time suddenly make Sulu gay?  If they really were doing it as an homage to George Takei as they claimed they were, they would have respected his wishes when he said he was against it.  They could have easily created a new character as Takei suggested, but instead they forced a sexuality change on a character who was portrayed as a heterosexual on both TV and film for three decades.  That's not being respectful to the source material, the actor who defined and brought life to the character, or even to good storytelling, since the sudden change is completely unexplainable.  This example is the very definition of forced diversity."

 

Was he ever explicitly heterosexual? Or did we just assume that he was since that's  what is considered the default?

I'll take George Takei's word for it that he was playing a heterosexual character since he played the role for three decades.  I won't belittle his acting ability by saying someone other than himself or Gene Roddenberry knows better about anything regarding the character of Hikaru Sulu than them. 

George Takei:  ""Unfortunately, it’s a twisting of Gene’s creation, to which he put in so much thought. I think it’s really unfortunate.  I told him, 'Be imaginative and create a character who has a history of being gay, rather than Sulu, who had been straight all this time, suddenly being revealed as being closeted.' I said, 'This movie is going to be coming out on the 50th anniversary of Star Trek, the 50th anniversary of paying tribute to Gene Roddenberry, the man whose vision it was carried us through half a century. Honor him and create a new character.' I urged them.



I don't really care if they switch the race of characters. I thought Jeffrey Wright was great as Felix Leiter in the Craig Bond movies, it didn't bother me one bit that the character used to be white in previous films. Same with Noamie Harris being Moneypenny because in the end their race doesn't change the character. I would object to Bond changing gender or to have a gay Bond since the womanizing aspect of Bond is a core part of the character.



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TruckOSaurus said:
I don't really care if they switch the race of characters. I thought Jeffrey Wright was great as Felix Leiter in the Craig Bond movies, it didn't bother me one bit that the character used to be white in previous films. Same with Noamie Harris being Moneypenny because in the end their race doesn't change the character. I would object to Bond changing gender or to have a gay Bond since the womanizing aspect of Bond is a core part of the character.

It's 2018, give us a Bond that is feminist and don't objective them.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994