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The wisdom of the 6Tf vs 4Tf

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I'm just glad to see Xbox get a big name semi-exclusive title and get good sales numbers. Microsoft and Sony pushing back and forth is why 8th Gen has been so nice. And now that Nintendo had legitimately joined the fray, I'm expecting to see some great innovation over the next 2-4 years that seems to be left in 8th Gen.



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Captain_Yuri said:
Ruler said:

Thats not what i meant, Sony can update the PS4 Pro to have down sampling with every game. Most games do downsample, its like only 20 games who dont so you are wrong in this one.

Some better supersanpling and AF doesnt justify spending 500$, the X has the same problems the Pro is facing in the end of the day, the simple fact that developers refuse to give different options that could benefit 1080p users like better graphics in 1080p, along performance and resolution modes. The better AF on the Xbox One X is also only effecting games who arent optimized for the X.

500$ is a lot of money for a mid gen refresh as the word mid-gen refresh is telling you why this is, thats how much money you would pay if a new console like the PS5 or the next Xbox would come out, a real upgrade.

Yeah you would spend that money, but why should i get the Xbox One X now if already have a PS4 Pro? Because you know it came out one year earlier? And this supersampling and AF for every game is that worth to get an Xbox One X now over the Pro or what is worth the wait? I dont think so.

"Most games do downsample" Nope

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1324251

Yea sure they could but until they do... Which who knows will be when... The Xbox 1 X will still take the lead. And either ways, it will be better on the x1x.

Whether or not those features justify spending $500 on a console is up to the customer but what the x1x brings is a guarantee that any games that has a resolution above 1080p will be down sampling. Yea the developers aren't giving the x1x options either but having Down Sampling and AF is better than nothing... Which is what the ps4 pro gives with the games that have no enhancements by devs at 1080p.

Yea $500 is but the reason anyone would want to get a mid-cycle refresh in the first place is to have more features and a better experience... If all they get is a resolution boost to not even 4k for most games, it's like... May as well just get the base model.

Maybe not for you but that doesn't matter... Cause based on your posting history, you are bias anyway... Even if the x1x gave you everything for $100, you would still prefer the Ps4 Pro and find a way to make the x1x look bad. And I don't see what it wouldn't be worth the wait if you can afford it. You get a guarantee of getting all your games that run at a higher resolution than 1080p to have enhancements vs the ps4 pro, you don't know what you are gonna get at the very least apart from a higher resolution.

Yes most games do downsample. You would know if you would take the time and read your own link you have posted, only around 20 games do not downsample from 267 PS4 Pro games in total https://www.resetera.com/threads/all-games-with-ps4-pro-enhancements.3101

The red X from the link signalises that you can not get supersampling on a 1080p TV.You also dont understand how it works as you think its so important for some reason, because having supersampling on a 1080p TV output is essentially running the game in 4K on your 1080p TV, which gives you only slighter better AA this is what Supersampling is. But running your game in 4K is a huge waste for 1080p TVs, one result can be that some games will run worse on your PS4 Pro than the base PS4 as a 1080p user, like it is in Skyrim Remastered which many have complained.


The developers arent just locking you out from supersampling beacause they are all lazy but because they see that the 4K mode is dropping more frames, so why should they force you as a 1080p user to having less performance for some slighter better Anti Aliasing? Last Guardian is a good example, on 1080p you get in fact the best performance, better than the 4K mode and a lot better than the base PS4. Yes you cant access the 4K mode, so no supersampling for you but who cares about that if you have rock solid 30fps without any drops?


The XBox One X on the other hand isnt designed that way, it will always force 4K on 1080p Televisions hence why it always can downsample. In Some cases the result is even a lot worse than on the PS4 Pro like in The Evil Within 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNpwtLpE0LE#t=8m 

With Evil Within 2 as a 1080p user you simple get 1800p downsampled on your Xbox One X, but with the PS4 Pro on the other hand the game still runs in 1080p and therefore has a lot better performance. So you prefer some better AA on your 1080p TV than almost hitting 60fps? 


If all they get is a resolution boost to not even 4k for most games, it's like... May as well just get the base model.

 

And the same logic doesnt apply to the Xbox One X according to you for some reason?

You get a guarantee of getting all your games that run at a higher resolution than 1080p to have enhancements vs the ps4 pro, you don't know what you are gonna get at the very least apart from a higher resolution.

I can tell you what you get with the PS4 Pro, the boost mode for older games and the same options the Xbox One X enhanced games have. Stop downplaying the Pro like the X is on a whole different level, it isnt. Take a look closer at the link you or i have posted with all the PS4 Pro games listed, the vast majority of them are giving benefits for 1080p users. Many games were even designed with 1080p in mind like Nier Automta.

Last edited by Ruler - on 23 December 2017

Ruler said:
Captain_Yuri said:

"Most games do downsample" Nope

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1324251

Yea sure they could but until they do... Which who knows will be when... The Xbox 1 X will still take the lead. And either ways, it will be better on the x1x.

Whether or not those features justify spending $500 on a console is up to the customer but what the x1x brings is a guarantee that any games that has a resolution above 1080p will be down sampling. Yea the developers aren't giving the x1x options either but having Down Sampling and AF is better than nothing... Which is what the ps4 pro gives with the games that have no enhancements by devs at 1080p.

Yea $500 is but the reason anyone would want to get a mid-cycle refresh in the first place is to have more features and a better experience... If all they get is a resolution boost to not even 4k for most games, it's like... May as well just get the base model.

Maybe not for you but that doesn't matter... Cause based on your posting history, you are bias anyway... Even if the x1x gave you everything for $100, you would still prefer the Ps4 Pro and find a way to make the x1x look bad. And I don't see what it wouldn't be worth the wait if you can afford it. You get a guarantee of getting all your games that run at a higher resolution than 1080p to have enhancements vs the ps4 pro, you don't know what you are gonna get at the very least apart from a higher resolution.

Yes most games do downsample. You would know if you would take the time and read your own link you have posted, only around 20 games do not downsample from 267 PS4 Pro games in total https://www.resetera.com/threads/all-games-with-ps4-pro-enhancements.3101

The red X from the link signalises that you can not get supersampling on a 1080p TV.You also dont understand how it works as you think its so important for some reason, because having supersampling on a 1080p TV output is essentially running the game in 4K on your 1080p TV, which gives you only slighter better AA this is what Supersampling is. But running your game in 4K is a huge waste for 1080p TVs, one result can be that some games will run worse on your PS4 Pro than the base PS4 as a 1080p user, like it is in Skyrim Remastered which many have complained.

The developers arent just locking you out from supersampling beacause they are all lazy but because they see that the 4K mode is dropping more frames, so why should they force you as a 1080p user to having less performance for some slighter better Anti Aliasing? Last Guardian is a good example, on 1080p you get in fact the best performance, better than the 4K mode and a lot better than the base PS4. Yes you cant access the 4K mode, so no supersampling for you but who cares about that if you have rock solid 30fps without any drops?

The XBox One X on the other hand isnt designed that way, it will always force 4K on 1080p Televisions hence why it always can downsample. In Some cases the result is even a lot worse than on the PS4 Pro like in The Evil Within 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNpwtLpE0LE#t=8m 

As a 1080p user you simple get 1800p downsampled on your Xbox One X, but with the PS4 Pro on the other hand the game still runs in 1080p and therefore has a lot better performance. So you prefer some better AA on your 1080p TV than almost hitting 60fps? 

If all they get is a resolution boost to not even 4k for most games, it's like... May as well just get the base model.

 

And the same logic doesnt apply to the Xbox One X according to you for some reason?

You get a guarantee of getting all your games that run at a higher resolution than 1080p to have enhancements vs the ps4 pro, you don't know what you are gonna get at the very least apart from a higher resolution.

I can tell you what you get with the PS4 Pro, the boost mode for older games and the same options the Xbox One X enhanced games have. Stop downplaying the Pro like the X is on a whole different level, it isnt. Take a look closer at the link you or i have posted with all the PS4 Pro games listed, the vast majority of them are giving benefits for 1080p users. Many games were even designed with 1080p in mind like Nier Automta.

Welp, that is odd but I guess even I have my off days. Sorry guys, my mistake.



             

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DonFerrari said:
EricHiggin said:

I wasn't calling him a liar, all I said was that he shouldn't have said some of the things he did. I find he says too much and promises too much sometimes. I was pointing more so to Phil and his uncompromised 4k/60. You can't really say that then talk about how balanced the console hardware is, then show off games playing 4k/30 max. The hardware is well balanced if your expecting 4k/30, which you should for a $500 console at the end of 2017, that's just not what he said. He needs to be a little more careful with his words, marketing aside, that's all.

Pemalite said: 

People really need to stop hanging by every single word that Phil and Cerny say, they have an obligation to embellish things a little to make their platforms seem the best that they can.

Rather, impartial outlets are better sources of information.

True. Doesn't exactly make it ok, but they are businessmen. It's hard to try and talk about what Phil, Cerny, etc, may have meant because there is always someone who is definitely going to use what they actually said to try and prove you wrong. If you use exactly what they said, someone is going to tell you to read between the lines.

Ok about Phill, let's call PR shenanigans and have an agreement =]

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Definitely think it's a little too early to tell. Sony still has the allure of its first party output, but they handled the Pro poorly beyond the hardware. 

vivster said:
caffeinade said:

11>6>4

If Xbox One x and Playstation 4 Pro are lemons, the Switch is a potato.
In my opinion: potatoes are much more interesting than lemons.

Now if we could just stop people pretending that potatoes are actually lemons if you peel them just right.

But if you dip it in some Nvidia sauce and sprinkle some shader seasoning it can look like a sour lemon sometimes. 

Last edited by xxbrothawizxx63 - on 23 December 2017

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I thought X1X is next gen, and the X1S is the premium upgrade competing against the PS4pro?



Pemalite said:
Ruler said:

And the XBox One X is supposed to have DX12 backed in into the hardware, i wouldnt listen to anything what these companies have to say that isnt real hardware when it comes to power

I think that was an oversimplification when they stated that Direct X 12 was baked into hardware.
The API is still very much software driven, but some of the aspects related to handling things like draw calls in the Direct X 12 API has been offloaded into the GPU's command processor.

Which is again... Why listening to Phil or Cerny is a bad idea, they embellish things, go for an impartial source instead.

DonFerrari said:

MS said they would demand 4k from all devs, to just a few time later backtrack on it. The games I really care about are all looking incredible on PS4Pro even though I'm aware that a lot haven't put a PS4Pro enhancement. Sony have only demanded that it's at least equal to PS4 basic.


If you already have invested in a Playstation 4 Pro, there is still very little reason to go for the Xbox One X in my opinion.
You would have likely already invested in Sony's online and software library and accessories and so on.

Sure. But I was talking more about Sony demanding all games to have a 4k mode, or any other mandated feature, that could make devs make some games prettier but also could destroy other games. That is why I said the games I have been buying and playing look pretty already without Sony needing to enforce. And I also prefer that MS had dropped some of the mandatory points on their X1X



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Ruler said:

Yes most games do downsample. You would know if you would take the time and read your own link you have posted, only around 20 games do not downsample from 267 PS4 Pro games in total https://www.resetera.com/threads/all-games-with-ps4-pro-enhancements.3101

That is the real kicker isn't it? The majority of games that will be run on a Playstation 4 Pro are... *Drumroll* base Playstation 4 games.
It's the same issue that plagues the Xbox One X.

DonFerrari said:

Sure. But I was talking more about Sony demanding all games to have a 4k mode, or any other mandated feature, that could make devs make some games prettier but also could destroy other games. That is why I said the games I have been buying and playing look pretty already without Sony needing to enforce. And I also prefer that MS had dropped some of the mandatory points on their X1X

Well. Sony and Microsoft should force requirements for their "premium" machines to have some sort of improvement over the base machine going forward.
It doesn't need to be anything massive though... But just enough so that people feel they got their money's worth.



xxbrothawizxx63 said:

Definitely think it's a little too early to tell. Sony still has the allure of its first party output, but they handled the Pro poorly beyond the hardware. 

vivster said:

Now if we could just stop people pretending that potatoes are actually lemons if you peel them just right.

But if you dip it in some Nvidia sauce and sprinkle some shader seasoning it can look like a sour lemon sometimes. 

It will look like a shrimpled lemon and it will also run like one.



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Random_Matt said:
6TF is such a waste with a shit CPU.
At the end of the day, it's still mostly a sub 30FPS box.
$500, what a rip off.
My opinion of course.

Well your opinion wrong. I mean if it doesent interest you, thats fine. But $499 is not unreasonable for the specs.

Its a sub 30 fps box? For the most part games stay at 30 fps and it does do a better job at 60 fps experiences.

The X1X is a machine designed to make 8th gen games looks better and perform more stable. The OG specs hits resolutions around 720p to 1080p, the X1X tends to do 1440p to 4K along with better graphics settings. X1X is not a rip off, its an option and boost in image fidelity has a cost.



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