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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Touch screens and 1 button specials are ruining Fighting Games?

Chazore on 23 June 2017
sundin13 said:

Complicated motions are pretty much always the worst part of fighting games. That's why Rising Thunder was so damn amazing. By simplifying the input system, it made the game more accessible, but by balancing the game through mind games and fundamentals (spacing, footsies, etc), it was able to maintain a high skill ceiling without an insurmountable skill floor. And then it died. Fuck Riot Games.

Anyways, I welcome a change away from complicated motions. However, games do need to be designed around this concept to really work. That said, any fighting game player that knows their shit can beat the ass of someone who is just spamming specials. While there is a very tiny advantage to touch screen specials (they are instantaneous instead of requiring input time), it really doesn't mean much if there is any skill gap. Spamming specials is no different than those people who spam Hadoukens to kill noobs online. The fact that you can press a button on the touch screen doesn't really change anything.

Yeah, Rising Thunder was actually the one fighting game I was really pining for. It was going to do away with the complcated motions and opting for mindgames and general movement prediction as well as cooldowns. It was also going to be the first proper PC fighting game until Riot came in and ruined everything, fuck Riot games indeed. 

I also don't mind the touch screen combos either, it actually makes a change of pace from spending too much time training for the input to actually training when to execute it and how often.



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Rogerioandrade on 23 June 2017

It´s good to have options, and I personally don´t think that the option of simple controls in a traditional fighting game, in order to please new players, is bad at all.

Experienced players may always ignore this option and play the game with traditional controls. New players that are afraid of not being able to input or memorize all all those control/button combinations will be able to enjoy the game as well.

Of course, for competitive play, rules should be applied, like forbid simple controls or items usage etc.

I do believe that making fighting games more acessible is actually a market-oriented decision rather than a design-oriented one. We don´t have as many fighting games today as we had in the PS2/GC/Xbox Generation, some franchises even ceased to exist, and the ones who are still around need to be atractive to different kinds of players in order to be financially successful.



Ganoncrotch on 23 June 2017
mZuzek said:
Rogerioandrade said:
I do believe that making fighting games more acessible is actually a market-oriented decision rather than a design-oriented one. We don´t have as many fighting games today as we had in the PS2/GC/Xbox Generation, some franchises even ceased to exist, and the ones who are still around need to be atractive to different kinds of players in order to be financially successful.

We don't? I don't remember too many fighting games from the 6th generation, maybe I'm wrong, but lately every year has at least 2 or 3 high profile fighting game releases. I mean, from 2014 to 2017 we had Smash Bros., Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat, Marvel vs. Capcom, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Guilty Gear, Tekken, ARMS and probably plenty more I'm forgetting about.

You have at least forgotten

Blaz Blue

Injustice

Pokken

and

Street Fighter Vs Tekken



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

Rogerioandrade on 23 June 2017
mZuzek said:
Rogerioandrade said:
I do believe that making fighting games more acessible is actually a market-oriented decision rather than a design-oriented one. We don´t have as many fighting games today as we had in the PS2/GC/Xbox Generation, some franchises even ceased to exist, and the ones who are still around need to be atractive to different kinds of players in order to be financially successful.

We don't? I don't remember too many fighting games from the 6th generation, maybe I'm wrong, but lately every year has at least 2 or 3 high profile fighting game releases. I mean, from 2014 to 2017 we had Smash Bros., Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat, Marvel vs. Capcom, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Guilty Gear, Tekken, ARMS and probably plenty more I'm forgetting about.

I miss series like Soul Calibur, Power Stone, Virtua Fighter, Killer Instinct (I know it´s back but it seems that most people didn´t even noticed), Darkstalkers, Bloody Roar., Fatal Fury, Samurai Shodown .....

Yeah... maybe I should have mentioned 5th generation, since most of these games started there or even earlier



NeroPrototype on 23 June 2017
Ganoncrotch said:
NeroPrototype said:

Pretty good channel overall, glad you showed me the vid... Yeah, explained it very well. I'll always watch that moment when Justin Wong lost to Daigo as part of the reason I started playing fighting games religiously I was totally into them before but when I came across that video many years ago MANY, MANY years ago... I fell in love with fighting games and that's why I'm worried about a bunch of things... You can't get the same rewarding feeling today with games that just want to appeal to more audiences even if it means making your game boring, but at the end of the day I can understand that this is a business.


As a player.... the fact that companies are making games to look good for spectators just in terms of "omg that was the best comeback ever" type videos... every single day on youtube are far less special though when they actually happened. It's like he said in the video, if Daigo had won by just mashing out the counter as you can do it in SFV it would not have been anything special in the slightest... you would have heard about it for maybe at most a week after the show in a "that was cool, he mashed countered her ult" but no.... that happened in 2004 and we're still talking about it 13 years later... no one is going to be looking at any of those shit come back vids from SFV in 13 years time, just... no.

It's amazing that was such a cool counter, so perfectly done... and people herald it as a Godly skilled moment in gaming.... he didn't even win the championship, it wasn't the final fight, it was in the lead up to it, but dear me it wasn't even the Final and it still roped in more new players and interest to the fighting game community than any SFV thing will in my opinion at least.

I play soccer, I imagine newer fighting games as If they made an automated soccer ball that can just adapt to your feet and control itself... I don't know I may be exagerating but that's how I feel lately. What made the moment memorable was that at the time, you had to have an extreme amount of skills to pull something like that off... There's a reason why Melee is more enjoyable to watch than Smash 4 (I love both), because even if Smash is more flashy and acessible, Melee is a pure skill based game, that game is even harder to control than most traditional fighters.

Chazore said:
sundin13 said:

Complicated motions are pretty much always the worst part of fighting games. That's why Rising Thunder was so damn amazing. By simplifying the input system, it made the game more accessible, but by balancing the game through mind games and fundamentals (spacing, footsies, etc), it was able to maintain a high skill ceiling without an insurmountable skill floor. And then it died. Fuck Riot Games.

Anyways, I welcome a change away from complicated motions. However, games do need to be designed around this concept to really work. That said, any fighting game player that knows their shit can beat the ass of someone who is just spamming specials. While there is a very tiny advantage to touch screen specials (they are instantaneous instead of requiring input time), it really doesn't mean much if there is any skill gap. Spamming specials is no different than those people who spam Hadoukens to kill noobs online. The fact that you can press a button on the touch screen doesn't really change anything.

Yeah, Rising Thunder was actually the one fighting game I was really pining for. It was going to do away with the complcated motions and opting for mindgames and general movement prediction as well as cooldowns. It was also going to be the first proper PC fighting game until Riot came in and ruined everything, fuck Riot games indeed. 

I also don't mind the touch screen combos either, it actually makes a change of pace from spending too much time training for the input to actually training when to execute it and how often.

I would love to hear the story behind Rising Thunder and Riot Games since all that google tells me is that they adquired the company but nothing else, no news about the game, nothing.


 

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NeroPrototype on 23 June 2017
Rogerioandrade said:
It´s good to have options, and I personally don´t think that the option of simple controls in a traditional fighting game, in order to please new players, is bad at all.

Experienced players may always ignore this option and play the game with traditional controls. New players that are afraid of not being able to input or memorize all all those control/button combinations will be able to enjoy the game as well.

Of course, for competitive play, rules should be applied, like forbid simple controls or items usage etc.

I do believe that making fighting games more acessible is actually a market-oriented decision rather than a design-oriented one. We don´t have as many fighting games today as we had in the PS2/GC/Xbox Generation, some franchises even ceased to exist, and the ones who are still around need to be atractive to different kinds of players in order to be financially successful.

Hmmm the problem is when they take out something really important to make that game acessible, take SFV for example, they took what made SF good out of the game and now everyone thinks it sucks compared to every other SF. :(



 

Rogerioandrade on 23 June 2017
NeroPrototype said:

Hmmm the problem is when they take out something really important to make that game acessible, take SFV for example, they took what made SF good out of the game and now everyone thinks it sucks compared to every other SF. :(

Yeah.... in this matter,  I do agree with you. Just taking out traditional controls and leaving the game with only simplyfied controls is just lame. I love the KoF series, and I loved the latest installment (XIV), but making combos and specials automatic by default with no option to disable it was not a good decision.

I like the approach of games like ARMS, for example, where you can play  with different control combinations/methods.



sundin13 on 23 June 2017
NeroPrototype said:
Chazore said:

Yeah, Rising Thunder was actually the one fighting game I was really pining for. It was going to do away with the complcated motions and opting for mindgames and general movement prediction as well as cooldowns. It was also going to be the first proper PC fighting game until Riot came in and ruined everything, fuck Riot games indeed. 

I also don't mind the touch screen combos either, it actually makes a change of pace from spending too much time training for the input to actually training when to execute it and how often.

I would love to hear the story behind Rising Thunder and Riot Games since all that google tells me is that they adquired the company but nothing else, no news about the game, nothing.

Rising Thunder was a PC fighting game made by FGC vets like Seth Killian. What made it special is that the game was designed to be played with a keyboard so it had one button inputs on a cooldown. It was easy to pick up, but still had a lot of depth to it. Things were going along fine and things were looking great. The game was constantly being improved and more content was promised in the future.

Then one day, Radiant (the developer) announced that they had been bought by Riot Games and they were shutting down the game. It was online only so that meant you could never play the game again. Most of the community at the time was thinking that the idea would be used to make a League of Legends fighting game and while we were disappointed Rising Thunder had to die (I really did love the characters), at least we had hope for something on the horizon.

Then nothing happened. Over a year later, we have heard nothing. At this point, it looks like Riot bought a promising new studio which was creating a promising new fighting game and killed it off. If eventually we hear something about what happened to these guys and it turns out good, I might be less salty, but until then, fuck Riot.



Chazore on 23 June 2017
NeroPrototype said:

I would love to hear the story behind Rising Thunder and Riot Games since all that google tells me is that they adquired the company but nothing else, no news about the game, nothing.

The original article on Rising THunder and what it was about:

http://www.pcgamer.com/rising-thunder-a-pc-only-fighting-game-from-experts-in-the-genre/

The acquisition news: 

http://www.pcgamer.com/riot-games-acquires-radiant-entertainment-rising-thunder-alpha-ends/



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

NeroPrototype on 24 June 2017
sundin13 said:
NeroPrototype said:

I would love to hear the story behind Rising Thunder and Riot Games since all that google tells me is that they adquired the company but nothing else, no news about the game, nothing.

Rising Thunder was a PC fighting game made by FGC vets like Seth Killian. What made it special is that the game was designed to be played with a keyboard so it had one button inputs on a cooldown. It was easy to pick up, but still had a lot of depth to it. Things were going along fine and things were looking great. The game was constantly being improved and more content was promised in the future.

Then one day, Radiant (the developer) announced that they had been bought by Riot Games and they were shutting down the game. It was online only so that meant you could never play the game again. Most of the community at the time was thinking that the idea would be used to make a League of Legends fighting game and while we were disappointed Rising Thunder had to die (I really did love the characters), at least we had hope for something on the horizon.

Then nothing happened. Over a year later, we have heard nothing. At this point, it looks like Riot bought a promising new studio which was creating a promising new fighting game and killed it off. If eventually we hear something about what happened to these guys and it turns out good, I might be less salty, but until then, fuck Riot.

 

Chazore said:
NeroPrototype said:

I would love to hear the story behind Rising Thunder and Riot Games since all that google tells me is that they adquired the company but nothing else, no news about the game, nothing.

The original article on Rising THunder and what it was about:

http://www.pcgamer.com/rising-thunder-a-pc-only-fighting-game-from-experts-in-the-genre/

The acquisition news: 

http://www.pcgamer.com/riot-games-acquires-radiant-entertainment-rising-thunder-alpha-ends/

 

Man fuck RG lol, why in the hell will they buy a company to kill off a game? That's a dick move, I watched a lot of videos about Rising Thunder yesterday and it suprises me how I didn't know about its existance, looked like  a lot of fun... Would've love to try it out. Hope they are not killing the game just for the sake of not having competition and bring it back laters on the road!