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Xbox Boss Talks About A Netflix For Games, "Upping" First-Party Investment

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Boss Talks About A Netflix For Games, "Upping" First-Party Investment

KLXVER said:
LivingMetal said:

could we put story-based games into the Xbox Game Pass business model because you have a subscription going? It would mean you wouldn't have to deliver the whole game in one month; you could develop and deliver the game as it goes."

Ugh...sounds horrible.

Yeah... I'm fine with games as a subscription service, but I like my games to launch as complete packages, not a bit at a time.



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d21lewis said:

Let's offer a little more perspective, here.

Netflix is like $10 a month. For that amount, you gain access to everything Netflix has to offer. Netflix also has exclusive content. That content doesn't cost you a single penny more.

Xbox's subscription service is going to be about $10 a month. For that amount, you can download pretty much everything they have to offer. In addition to all of those full games, there may be games that only subscribers can play. Not streaming. Download. Still, only $10.

What's the problem, again? The "exclusive to subscribers" part? The episodic part? The price?

I agree. While i dont really like the idea of episódic games released over an extended period of time, as sounds like a gross misunderstanding of what makes the netflix method so appealing, in the end it can do nothing but improve the already solid Xbox service.

Theres also the fact that single player story driven experiences dont tend to get a lot of traction con Xbox. Releasing them through a subscription service might make their playerbase more receptive to these types of games.



I find it hard to believe. They said the same with Xbox One.
Microsoft spending $1 billion on Xbox One exclusives
http://www.gamezone.com/news/microsoft-spending-1-billion-on-xbox-one-exclusives



Bandorr said:
d21lewis said:

Many of those things named aren't things Microsoft came up with--but then why isn't the competition doing the same?

Anyway, Microsoft was...

-The first to have a built in HDD (Xbox) -- technically PS2 offered a $100 HDD add on in 2001 but quickly dropped support. M$ went all in on Broadband and hard drive support

-The first to offer Achievements in their current form (Xbox 360)

-Online profiles aka Gamertags (Xbox 360)

-The first to support streaming apps (Xbox 360)

-They popularized downloadable games (XBLA)

- Snap (Xbox One) console multitasking

- Smart glass (Xbox 360 Companion app for smart devices)

-External HDD support (Xbox 360)

-Cross game chat (Xbox 360)

 

Sony isn't flawless, either. They have:

-A fair share of exclusive DLC last gen, too.  They were the only console that had Joker DLC for Batman Arkham Asylum, for example.

-A history of unsupported peripherals (though all companies have done this)

- Removed features from their consoles like backwards compatibility, USB ports, memory card readers, etc (PS3)

-Tried to charge a whopping $600 for their console (PS3) which caused the aforementioned removed features

-Forced players to pay insane amounts for proprietary memory cards (Vita)

- Forced to settle TWO class action lawsuits with gamers (PS2 Disc Read Error and Vita false advertising) as well as offering free games due to a month long PSN outage

 

You seem to hate Microsoft with a passion but they do some good things in the industry and for their fans. Even if some of the ideas didn't originate with them. At the same time, as good as Sony is, they aren't flawless. Try to be objective, here.

Wait that logic seems weird. You blame Sony for removing BC, but you also blame Sony for charging $600.

If they didn't add BC - it wouldn't have cost  $600. Infact that is why it dropped to $400 when they removed the BC.

You are basically blaming them for not having it.. AND for having it.

Take your pick!

 

Just kidding. I was trying to defend them, even when I was pointing out something. Much like when I gave them credit for the HDD in the PS2. I was hoping that by being transparent, I could convey my point rather than saying "Sony is evil and here's why!"

 

Nobody's flawless. Don't even get me started on Nintendo and they're my favorite company....



Twitter: @d21lewis  --I'll add you if you add me!!

d21lewis said:
Bandorr said:

Wait that logic seems weird. You blame Sony for removing BC, but you also blame Sony for charging $600.

If they didn't add BC - it wouldn't have cost  $600. Infact that is why it dropped to $400 when they removed the BC.

You are basically blaming them for not having it.. AND for having it.

Take your pick!

 

Just kidding. I was trying to defend them, even when I was pointing out something. Much like when I gave them credit for the HDD in the PS2. I was hoping that by being transparent, I could convey my point rather than saying "Sony is evil and here's why!"

 

Nobody's flawless. Don't even get me started on Nintendo and they're my favorite company....

Ahh I see. Yes it is hard to list off a bunch of negatives without people thinking you are hating on something.

I had the HDD and the network adapter for the ps2. Only way I could play FF11 back then.



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KLAMarine said:
thismeintiel said:

My post was about ideas brought to gaming.  NOT what the XBO is offering, now.  Reading comprehension is a must.

What difference does it make in the bigger picture? Today, there are things Microsoft does that neither Sony nor Nintendo do that are good for the consumer. Whether they are new or not shouldn't matter: Sony was among the first to introduce backwards compatibility and today, PS4 cannot play PS3 games. What difference does it make that they were among the first? None from what I can see: PS4 still can't play physical PS3 games.

It matters because if someone isn't offering something good for gaming, and instead the opposite, then they don't need to be in the market.

thismeintiel said:

But, for your sake, I'll address each point.

EA Access - Sorry, but I don't want EVERY gaming company to come out with their own "service."  Of course, this was EA's idea, not MS, so they get the credit and/or blame.

I get that YOU don't want it but what about the other PS4 owners who do? They're screwed and they're not being forced to subscribe to EA Access. It's OPTIONAL. Not for PS4 owners though: it's mandatory that they cannot sign up as Sony has ordered.

Contrast this to Microsoft that HAS allowed the OPTION.

 

Don't like it? Don't subscribe. It's not rocket science.

You say that with one service.  Then, Ubisoft does it.  Activision.  SE.  Focus.  Soon, every company has a service.  Sure, you can say its optional, but its only a matter of time before they start putting things behind that paywall when they think they don't have as many subscribers as they would like.  Like we have seen with DLC, it starts out small and with good intentions, then it balloons to where everyone is literally cutting content from the game to sell to you later.  I'm glad Sony nipped this one in the bud.  I'm paying for a Sony console to get Sony's services, including PS Plus, not have to buy into everyone elses just to get some extra DLC I want or because they are keeping their games off of Plus.

thismeintiel said:

Bethesda Mods - Again, had nothing to do with MS, so Bethesda gets the credit for this.  Sure, MS is more open with them on their system, but they really aren't in the position to do otherwise.

Had plenty to do with MS: they had to greenlight it on their console. If not for that, Bethesda mods might have just been an idea stuffed inside Bethesda HQ. Sony initially didn't want Bethesda mods but maybe the pressure got to them... Sort of...

Competition is lovely isn't it?

Sony is fine with mods.  It's why they were the first one to allow them on their console.  UT3 supported user-genereated mods on the PS3, while MS didn't allow them on the 360. Sony's problem with Bethesda is that Bethesda didn't want to have any kind of quality control or filter on their mods.  Basically, let people do whatever they want, to hell with the repercussions to your console.  Epic was completely fine with this, but Bethesda, who likes to let modders fix their games for them, were not.  Bethesda is the one who bent to pressure, not Sony.

Guess MS was the one forced to allow them, huh?  Competition is lovely isn't it?

thismeintiel said:

Steam-like Refund Policy - The fact Steam is in the point shows where the credit should go.  Considering MS is trying to compete with Steam on PCs, its obvious why they have adopted this policy.  Still I can't knock them for doing it.

It's almost as if Microsoft are deserving of praise for competing with Valve's refund policy.

No, it's not their idea but it WAS their idea to compete with Valve. I think this is a first for a console maker.

Still, the fact remains, they had to adopt the standard Steam set.  If not, there wouldn't even be a shot at competing.

thismeintiel said:

Xbox Game Pass - Their answer to PS Now.  I will say I prefer their method of actually downloading the games.  Of course, this also comes with the big disadvantage that you HAVE to have a XBO.

Well where else would you download said games to without streaming? Thin air?

You brought up the topic of emulation below.  So, why doesn't MS just make an official 360 emulator app to play them on?

thismeintiel said:

B/C - I think this is a pretty obvious one.  This idea dates back to Atari systems.  Nintendo HHs.  And PS brought it back as a standard for home consoles.  Unfortunately, the PS3 architecture doesn't allow the PS4 to have it.

There are PS3 emulators that can run on PC built partially by volunteers and funded by Patreon.

Surely Sony of all organizations would be able to build one for the PS4.

You see the specs that game is running on?  The PS4 is not capable enough of emulating the Cell processor.  Granted, I think it is completely ridiculous that the PS4 is not B/C with at least the PS1 games on PSN.  Still, I expect the PS5 to be B/C with at least the PS4.  It would also make sense for it to play the same PS2 games the PS4 can, as well as those PS1 games (would be no reason to keep them on the Store, otherwise.)

Again, like I said, it's a nice feature to have.  In the end, though, it means squat to most people and their want to purchase a console.  Hence, the XBO's dropping sales, while the PS4 is doing fine.

thismeintiel said:

4K Blu-ray -  Another feature that's nice to have, but in the big picture, as sales show (yet again), means nothing.  Though, funny how you give MS credit for something Sony co-created with Philips.

I don't give MS credit for the tech, I give MS credit for putting 4K blu-ray playback into a revision of their old X1 when Sony didn't bother for their premium, upgraded Pro.

It's surprising but then again, Sony sells 4K Blu-Ray players so perhaps that had something to do with it?..

Maybe.  Might be more the fact that they know the market is extremely niche at this point and want to make sure they can drop the prices of their console without taking any losses from now on.  Sure, it's a pure business decision, but it's a smart one.  Let's just say a 4K Bluray player only costs them $15 extra dollars to put in.  If they sell another 50M units, that's $750M they would have spent for a market that isn't worth that cost.  MS knows they aren't selling 50M more XBOs, so they aren't at risk of losing that much on sales.  Plus, they NEED something to put down as a bullet point.  Of course, it isn't helping them.

thismeintiel said:

Now, did you feel this was a big point in favor of the PS3 last gen against the 360's DVDs?  Or did you think it wasn't that big a deal?

Honestly, I didn't even think about DVD vs Blu-Ray back then. I cared infinitely more about playing video games on these devices.

Of course.  But NOW, it's something worth pointing out, huh?

thismeintiel said:

Now, let's actually look at the things MS get FULL credit for bringing/trying to bring to the industry.

  • 24 hour check-ins to play your games
  • Not allowing you to sell or lend out your games
  • More restrictive policies for indie companies
  • Timed exclusivity for DLC
  • And if Spencer gets his wish, AAA games coming out in pieces you pay monthly for.  Basically, early access on consoles, with all its BS.

Well isn't competition a lovely thing? PS4 forced X1 to ditch its old policies and now Sony's pulling back and Microsoft's getting a few jabs in. Good on Microsoft for that: if not for them to land a few blows from time to time, who?

Jabs?  More like flailing and missing each time.  Maybe some Xbox fans think they hit, but the sales sure don't show it.  Hell, XBO is in danger of not even being in the Top 100 on Amazon for this month.  Something that hasn't happened to either console until now.  The $400 Pro is outselling the $245 XBO.

With all due respect thismeintiel, not sure you'd be the person to readily call Sony out when they push some not-so-consumer-friendly policies. You're quite enthusiastic about calling out Nintendo and Microsoft based on posts you've made in other threads...

Sony fans are probably some of the better ones at calling out their console maker of choice.  It's why they have gotten to where they are.  It's probably why we no longer have online passes, which I also criticized them for.  Why most posts, including my own, were sympathetic to people who hated that they switched to paid online. 

I'd say Nintendo fans are pretty good later on in the gen, after launch, especially if the console isn't performing the greatest.   During launch it seems they can do no wrong, but that's more understandable. 

But this gen has proven that Xbox fans are the worst at it.  Many were fully supporting the shitty policies of XBO.  It's probably why MS was so dickish about changing it.  "Hey, our fans still support us, we can go ahead with it. "  If it wasn't for the gaming market of large, the XBO would be a draconian system with maybe 10M sales right now.  And when it was rumored very early on that Sony may be going the same path, I already said I would be switching (back) to Nintendo if it were true.  Fortunately, that turned out to be completely false.



You don't have online passes any more because they charge for online play now, so it makes zero sense to have them. That's why MS never had them in the first place. So yeah, I guess they "listened" by ending one "money grab" and starting another, which fans ate up.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
KLXVER said:

Ugh...sounds horrible.

Yeah, truly terrible. Games as a service and episodic releases. Sounds like Spencer read my dream journal and decided to enact a business model based on my nightmares.

TIL Veknoid has a dream journal.



thismeintiel said:

KLAMarine said:

What difference does it make in the bigger picture? Today, there are things Microsoft does that neither Sony nor Nintendo do that are good for the consumer. Whether they are new or not shouldn't matter: Sony was among the first to introduce backwards compatibility and today, PS4 cannot play PS3 games. What difference does it make that they were among the first? None from what I can see: PS4 still can't play physical PS3 games.

It matters because if someone isn't offering something good for gaming, and instead the opposite, then they don't need to be in the market.

So does PSNow mean Sony shouldn't be in the market? Does lack of backwards compatibility mean Sony shouldn't be in the market? No Steam-like refunds? No OPTIONAL EA Access? Selling broken-at-launch indie games at a full $60?

thismeintiel said:

KLAMarine said:

I get that YOU don't want it but what about the other PS4 owners who do? They're screwed and they're not being forced to subscribe to EA Access. It's OPTIONAL. Not for PS4 owners though: it's mandatory that they cannot sign up as Sony has ordered.

Contrast this to Microsoft that HAS allowed the OPTION.

 

Don't like it? Don't subscribe. It's not rocket science.

You say that with one service.  Then, Ubisoft does it.  Activision.  SE.  Focus.  Soon, every company has a service.  Sure, you can say its optional, but its only a matter of time before they start putting things behind that paywall when they think they don't have as many subscribers as they would like.  Like we have seen with DLC, it starts out small and with good intentions, then it balloons to where everyone is literally cutting content from the game to sell to you later.  I'm glad Sony nipped this one in the bud.

Extra content is already behind a paywall, subscription service or no subscription service.  

MORE OPTIONS is NEVER a bad thing to have. Hell, it might be cheaper in the long run: for 30 bucks a year, you can play numerous EA games that would have cost many times more than that if they were purchased alone. And if one feels they've had enough, they can just cancel...

But Sony said 'no' and some defended Sony cutting down on OPTIONS available to their customers.

thismeintiel said:

KLAMarine said:

Had plenty to do with MS: they had to greenlight it on their console. If not for that, Bethesda mods might have just been an idea stuffed inside Bethesda HQ. Sony initially didn't want Bethesda mods but maybe the pressure got to them... Sort of...

Competition is lovely isn't it?

Sony is fine with mods.  It's why they were the first one to allow them on their console.  UT3 supported user-genereated mods on the PS3, while MS didn't allow them on the 360. Sony's problem with Bethesda is that Bethesda didn't want to have any kind of quality control or filter on their mods.  Basically, let people do whatever they want, to hell with the repercussions to your console.  Epic was completely fine with this, but Bethesda, who likes to let modders fix their games for them, were not.  Bethesda is the one who bent to pressure, not Sony.

Guess MS was the one forced to allow them, huh?  Competition is lovely isn't it?

Yes and it's XBox 1 owners who benefit in these cases.

thismeintiel said:

KLAMarine said:

It's almost as if Microsoft are deserving of praise for competing with Valve's refund policy.

No, it's not their idea but it WAS their idea to compete with Valve. I think this is a first for a console maker.

Still, the fact remains, they had to adopt the standard Steam set.  If not, there wouldn't even be a shot at competing.

And now Microsoft is setting the example for hopefully Sony and Nintendo to follow unless of course you want to argue against such a refund policy? Hopefully some No Man's Sky customers will be able to get refunds?

thismeintiel said:

KLAMarine said:

Well where else would X1 games download to? Thin air?

 

You brought up the topic of emulation below.  So, why doesn't MS just make an official 360 emulator app to play them on?

I don't know why but hey... Some BC is better than no BC. Bring on more BC games Microsoft. That's very pro-consumer.

thismeintiel said:

KLAMarine said:

I don't give MS credit for the tech, I give MS credit for putting 4K blu-ray playback into a revision of their old X1 when Sony didn't bother for their premium, upgraded Pro.

It's surprising but then again, Sony sells 4K Blu-Ray players so perhaps that had something to do with it?..

 

Maybe.  Might be more the fact that they know the market is extremely niche at this point and want to make sure they can drop the prices of their console without taking any losses from now on.  Sure, it's a pure business decision, but it's a smart one.  Let's just say a 4K Bluray player only costs them $15 extra dollars to put in.  If they sell another 50M units, that's $750M they would have spent for a market that isn't worth that cost.  MS knows they aren't selling 50M more XBOs, so they aren't at risk of losing that much on sales.  Plus, they NEED something to put down as a bullet point.  Of course, it isn't helping them. 

 

What I got out of this was, out of the two, it was Microsoft that was willing to go the extra mile for its consumers, include a 4K BR player in the X1S, and then promote the X1S and lose $15 on every sale.

Microsoft, good on ya! Another pro-consumer move!

thismeintiel said:

KLAMarine said:

Honestly, I didn't even think about DVD vs Blu-Ray back then. I cared infinitely more about playing video games on these devices.

Of course.  But NOW, it's something worth pointing out, huh?

I don't care about 4K BR either honestly but there are people out there who do care (I generally don't just care about myself you know) hence why it's a positive in X1S's favor. For people who want it, it's there!

thismeintiel said:

KLAMarine said:

Well isn't competition a lovely thing? PS4 forced X1 to ditch its old policies and now Sony's pulling back and Microsoft's getting a few jabs in. Good on Microsoft for that: if not for them to land a few blows from time to time, who?

Jabs?  More like flailing and missing each time.  Maybe some Xbox fans think they hit

Some PS fans too apparently:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/650hpd/xbox_is_now_going_to_allow_customers_to/

"I've owned every home console Sony has ever put out and still have them all set up in my entertainment center (If I could get my hands on a black dev-kit PSX my entertainment center would be as black as an emo's soul.) Sony has had some pretty abysmal policies with refunds, especially chargebacks (even when accidental.)

My only pleasant customer service experience with Sony is when I accidentally let my PS+ run out and it automatically renewed for 3 months. I called and explained that I was planning on finding a card online for one year at a reduced rate and I was refunded. Even then, though, I was only given the money refunded to my PS Wallet.

This entire generation has been kind of disappointing to be honest. On top of some of their anti-consumer policies it feels like Microsoft is killing it with customer satisfaction and implementing updates that fans ask for, which are things that Sony dominated last gen. I'm hoping that Xbox dominates sales for the next year or two so that Sony starts focusing on giving customers what they want and hopefully revisiting things like their refund and chargeback policies."

https://www.change.org/p/bethesda-game-studios-petition-for-ps4-mod-replacement-features-on-fallout

https://www.change.org/p/sony-ps4-mods-for-skyrim-and-fallout-4

COKTOE said:
KLAMarine said:
  • EA Access
  • Bethesda mods
  • Steam-like refund policy
  • XBox Game Pass
  • Backwards compatibility
  • 4K Blu-Ray player

Horrible ideas! That backwards compatibility, I tell ya! Doesn't Microsoft know charging a fee to allow previous-gen titles to stream on your current-gen console is more consumer-friendly? And that completely-optional EA Access? Bah! EA Access "does not bring the kind of value ... customers" who can't be left to decide for themselves "have come to expect". Attempts at emulating Steam-like refunds? Giving people their money back for digital purchases is the definition of anti-consumer! It's in the dictionary! And a built-in 4K blu-ray player is so horribly ANTI-CONSUMER! Consumers WANT to buy a separate 4k blu-ray player for their 4k blu-ray player needs.

#4theconsumer

Well, I don't like MS as a whole, and am unlikely to ever buy an Xbox again, but those are undeniably all nice bullet-points for the brand. I like how well thought out the Scorpio looks to be as well. The last 2 or so years have seen a pretty decent shift in it's conduct towards it's existing, and potential customers.

Some big YouTubers too:

thismeintiel said:

Sony fans are probably some of the better ones at calling out their console maker of choice.  It's why they have gotten to where they are.  It's probably why we no longer have online passes, which I also criticized them for.  Why most posts, including my own, were sympathetic to people who hated that they switched to paid online. 

I'd say Nintendo fans are pretty good later on in the gen, after launch, especially if the console isn't performing the greatest.   During launch it seems they can do no wrong, but that's more understandable. 

But this gen has proven that Xbox fans are the worst at it.  Many were fully supporting the shitty policies of XBO.  It's probably why MS was so dickish about changing it.  "Hey, our fans still support us, we can go ahead with it. "  If it wasn't for the gaming market of large, the XBO would be a draconian system with maybe 10M sales right now.  And when it was rumored very early on that Sony may be going the same path, I already said I would be switching (back) to Nintendo if it were true.  Fortunately, that turned out to be completely false.

I'd advise against speaking about people in such broad terms there thismeintiel. You don't endear yourself to people this way. Often it's the opposite.

thismeintiel said:

I'm glad Sony nipped [EA Access] in the bud.

Screw the other PS4 owners who would have liked to sign up for this service, you're going to just defend Sony cutting down on OPTIONS available to PS4 owners all the while criticizing XBox fans for defending Microsoft policies:

thismeintiel said:

Xbox fans are the worst at it.  Many were fully supporting the shitty policies of XBO.  It's probably why MS was so dickish about changing it.  "Hey, our fans still support us, we can go ahead with it."

thismeintiel, here's a hand mirror.

Look into it and you should see a reflection.



I'll take that business model over the McDonald's business model of pumping out so much crap by the cubic tone so we might end up with 1% of great games a certain Japanese company has been pulling out for almost 20 years now... God that shit has been the worst for the gaming industry business model.... Telltale BM is just awesome and working... You don't like it wait until everything is released... Yeah Netflix release a season at time pretty much like a chapter of a serialised game... God gamers are probably the worst kind of people i have seen when it comes to business model conceptualisation... Just terrible.... It's like they are the fast food eaters of the entertainment, the more and cheapest crap they get right here right now the better.... They'd rather have a tone of crap over and over with some times the oddball coming out than a quality product in smaller quality... It's just depressing