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Forums - Movies & TV - The Force Awakens sucks! *MAJOR SPOILERS*

amp316 said:

Oh, and Kylo Ren is by far the weakest main villain in the entire series.  At first I really thought that they were on to something with a sinister and powerful force wielder that was prone to temper tantrums.  Turns out that he isn't a bad ass at all.  In fact, he can be defeated in a lightsaber duel by someone that has zero training.  And I also wasn't too impressed with Supreme Leader Snoke or whatever his name was...

 

I just want to pick up on this part of your OP with a few points of my own. The whole Kylo being weak thing is not exactly a con on his character. It's deliberate.

  • At 3 different parts of the film we are shown how immature he is compared to the likes of Vader, Maul, Dooku or Sidious with his lightsaber tantrums and Rey slapping him down on how insignificant he is compared to Vader.
  • At the end of the film, we are told that he has yet to finish his training. We are told directly that he isn't at the level of his predecessors.
  • During the fight with Finn and Rey, you have to look at a bigger picture of what just happened. He killed his own father and was shot in the gut by Chewbacca's ultra-powerful Bowcaster. Not only is he emotionally unstable at that point, but the guy has a hole punched right into his stomach. He's bleeding out.

Actually, after my second viewing of the film I noticed that not only is he injured during the fight but he's playing with Finn all the way up until Finn gets the lucky shot in. Kylo knocks him to the floor and lets him get up. He pins him up against the tree to torture him with the cross-guard. He was punishing Finn until he got caught. As soon as Finn gets the lucky swipe, Kylo pushed his shit in. After this, he isn't actually trying to kill Rey. He's trying to recruit her

Kylo is third to Vader and Sidious when it comes to just how good they are, because his character actually has significant development. He's trying to live up to what Vader was, yet knows he can't leave that ever looming shadow of his grandfather.



                            

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Pretty much this sums it all up. I someties feel if this move had a narrator saying stuf like "on this moment we see Kylo Ren is conficlted (pay atention on the actors expression) and he doesnt even see the balster shot coming from his back, he now has a hole the size of a fist in his gut and is surviving thanks to the dark sid eof the force, the actor is now gaunt showing to show that Kylo is having troble walking properly" ppl woudlve understood the movie better, it wouldve sucked for anyone who can actualy interprete stuf and pat atention to actors expressions and such tough.

 

You know, like in the climax in Return of the Jedi, when Darth Vader looks back and forth between Luke and the Emperor, if just someone had added some dialogue about what he thinks in that scene  

 





“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8850324

The pros are weighing in! I'll copy/paste the two lists later. I disagree with a couple but I did get a few laughs. Check it out.



Carl2291 said:
amp316 said:

Oh, and Kylo Ren is by far the weakest main villain in the entire series.  At first I really thought that they were on to something with a sinister and powerful force wielder that was prone to temper tantrums.  Turns out that he isn't a bad ass at all.  In fact, he can be defeated in a lightsaber duel by someone that has zero training.  And I also wasn't too impressed with Supreme Leader Snoke or whatever his name was...

 

I just want to pick up on this part of your OP with a few points of my own. The whole Kylo being weak thing is not exactly a con on his character. It's deliberate.

 

  • At 3 different parts of the film we are shown how immature he is compared to the likes of Vader, Maul, Dooku or Sidious with his lightsaber tantrums and Rey slapping him down on how insignificant he is compared to Vader.
  • At the end of the film, we are told that he has yet to finish his training. We are told directly that he isn't at the level of his predecessors.
  • During the fight with Finn and Rey, you have to look at a bigger picture of what just happened. He killed his own father and was shot in the gut by Chewbacca's ultra-powerful Bowcaster. Not only is he emotionally unstable at that point, but the guy has a hole punched right into his stomach. He's bleeding out.

 

Actually, after my second viewing of the film I noticed that not only is he injured during the fight but he's playing with Finn all the way up until Finn gets the lucky shot in. Kylo knocks him to the floor and lets him get up. He pins him up against the tree to torture him with the cross-guard. He was punishing Finn until he got caught. As soon as Finn gets the lucky swipe, Kylo pushed his shit in. After this, he isn't actually trying to kill Rey. He's trying to recruit her

Kylo is third to Vader and Sidious when it comes to just how good they are, because his character actually has significant development. He's trying to live up to what Vader was, yet knows he can't leave that ever looming shadow of his grandfather.

Exactly and during te Rey duel he is winning rather easilly, he deflects her blows without much effort and forces her to the edge of a cliff, than she atunes to the force and has a momentary outburst of "power" and catches Kylo off guard, who by that point was bleeding out, emotionaly undtable and tired, I doubt he had much controll over the force at that point.





I thought it was fun, which is what the series mostly is. Jedi had many major issue as well so I put it on par with that, and no with Hope or Empire.



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d21lewis said:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8850324

The pros are weighing in! I'll copy/paste the two lists later. I disagree with a couple but I did get a few laughs. Check it out.

I read that article and a lot of it is really grasping for straws and clearly he didn't pay close enough attention. Maybe OP wrote it?



Watching it now, actually (illegal downloads ftw!). I'm on the part where they are trying to poison Han and Chewie with gas from the Millennium Falcon.

-Why didn't they poison Han and Chewie?
-They hide in the secret compartments the Empire couldn't even find in Episode IV?
-And right before this scene, Ren said she wants to go back to Jakku ("Why does everyone want to go back there!?! " After this scene ends, she doesn't want to go anymore. I'll see if they explain why....

-edit-

-they didn't say why. I guess Han Solo is calling the shots now.

- is Chewie racist!?! He's choking Finn within seconds of meeting him and Finn is trying to help him. In Episode V, he started choking Lando! Wtf!?!

-How many times can people get captured in this movie? Poe gets caught in the beginning. Then Finn, Han, and Chewie are captured (saved by Poe and the rebels). Next, Rey is gonna get captured! 



It's strange to see So meone blame a star-wars movie for habing loose ends... This is what they do! Epsode 4 did not explain every little details about what the hell is the empire, why is the rebellion rebelling against it? Yes they blow up whole star systems, but they must have reasons to be so upset at these people... Etc. I mean, the last thing I want is 12 hours movies that tell and explain every little details ofmtheir lore, it makes no sense... 

 

That being said, Han and Lea's son path to the dark side did not feel like a probable thing, his anger lacked flesh and his motivations were unclear. I mean, simply wanting to be as strong as darth vader is petty and vane, why did he revolt so abruptly against his parents, both of them to the point of wanting to kill his father to prove himself? He acts like a pawn at best, that does not strike me as a strong mind (for someone who does mind tricks it's pretty incosistent)... Now the whole movie is held on this character's motivations! That hurts ecerything else as it seems his position is not deserved, in the end he seems small, being beaten by someone who did not even know she had force powers a few hours earlier...

 

that bring us to the next storyboard flaw, time line wise it seemed like everything happened within a day or two,no time for anything to sink in inany of the characters mind, no time to build the relationships (it does not have to happen on the screen, but let us know somehow that a week, or a day passed between major events, so we can guess that the people know each other more, or they grew somehow...

 

all in all it seems like a mashup of star-wars tropes, despite its many flaws i kind of liked it anyway, certainly better than ep i, ii and iii...



Carl2291 said:
amp316 said:

Oh, and Kylo Ren is by far the weakest main villain in the entire series.  At first I really thought that they were on to something with a sinister and powerful force wielder that was prone to temper tantrums.  Turns out that he isn't a bad ass at all.  In fact, he can be defeated in a lightsaber duel by someone that has zero training.  And I also wasn't too impressed with Supreme Leader Snoke or whatever his name was...

 

I just want to pick up on this part of your OP with a few points of my own. The whole Kylo being weak thing is not exactly a con on his character. It's deliberate.

 

  • At 3 different parts of the film we are shown how immature he is compared to the likes of Vader, Maul, Dooku or Sidious with his lightsaber tantrums and Rey slapping him down on how insignificant he is compared to Vader.
  • At the end of the film, we are told that he has yet to finish his training. We are told directly that he isn't at the level of his predecessors.
  • During the fight with Finn and Rey, you have to look at a bigger picture of what just happened. He killed his own father and was shot in the gut by Chewbacca's ultra-powerful Bowcaster. Not only is he emotionally unstable at that point, but the guy has a hole punched right into his stomach. He's bleeding out.

 

Actually, after my second viewing of the film I noticed that not only is he injured during the fight but he's playing with Finn all the way up until Finn gets the lucky shot in. Kylo knocks him to the floor and lets him get up. He pins him up against the tree to torture him with the cross-guard. He was punishing Finn until he got caught. As soon as Finn gets the lucky swipe, Kylo pushed his shit in. After this, he isn't actually trying to kill Rey. He's trying to recruit her

Kylo is third to Vader and Sidious when it comes to just how good they are, because his character actually has significant development. He's trying to live up to what Vader was, yet knows he can't leave that ever looming shadow of his grandfather.

                               

What a lot of people also don't seem to realize is that Kylo Ren is one of the youngest villains we've had in Star Wars. Vader, Palpatine, and Dooku were all fairly old, experienced Sith. Palpatine was in his friggin 90s by Jedi. Darth Vader Would have been in his 40s. Dooku was in his 60s or 70s. Maul is the only one who's a mystery, because pretty much everything ABOUT him is a mystery unless you dive into the now-defunct expanded universe.

Compared to other villains, Kylo Ren is a friggin baby. Unlike these other villains, Ren will be able to grow in strength and skill over the course of the movies. Not a bad thing.



In some of these movies they want to pack so much and so many action scenes that they fail at character and world development.

I thought only force wielders could use light sabers... Finn could use a light saber no problem yet no one seem to wonder why?!?

Kylo Ren was badass... until he removed his helmet. Please couldn't they do a better job with his haircut. He looked like someone that takes care of his hair all the time.

Kylo Ren has anger management, I understand that it's to give him character and show how troubled he is... be all it did was make him look weak and childish.

Scenes make it look like all happens in a few hours. I understand that they have light speed but still. Everything seems like it's done the next minute.

Finn - "Because it's the right thing to do!" ... lost me.

I think the movie started well, Kylo Ren seemed fierce and so was the Empire. The special effects were well done except for the 3D (goggles) which was very poorly executed imo.

Then it was kind of a mash up of many scenes that needed development more than anything. It mostly is a kids movie (I'm ok with that).