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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Street Fighter and Smash Dominates EVO 2015

ethomaz said:

Wyrdness said:

Yet right now you claim 10 characters and Smash IV already has more then that in big tournaments with out even having an EVO, don't see you point in tier lists because Smash IV still has more viable characters, the fact that Mario who is B tier according to that chart can destroy ZS Samus (Ally murdering Nairo is one example) highlights this even more, goodluck getting any B Tier in Melee to beat Fox or Falco. Diddy is also not S Tier.

If a B tier chars wins over S tier chars it is because player skills... not game balance lol


Nope Nairo is easily in the top 3 of Smash 4 so him getting destroyed is not a skill thing as him and ally are even, ZS Samus just struggles against brawler type characters so tiers don't factor as much in Smash 4.



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midrange said:


The problem isn't in allowing comebacks, the problem is in encouraging comebacks. This is why many people requested a counter to the "blue shell" comeback in mario kart. If someone makes a comeback in chess, it is really impressive because he did not depend on a mechanic to help him do it. If I string 15 hits to get lucario above 120 hp, is it far for him to knock me out in 3 due to rage mechanic and lack of spikes to close the game?

diddy and sheik were big dude. There is no denying that. My friend and I complained because I wanted to main shulk and he wanted to main duck hunt, but despite being above b-tier characters, they simply couldn't match up to diddy. Nerfs and buffs are also a double edged sword since people who mained diddy now have to adapt. Auto cancel is a good option, but it does not work for all cases. I know about perfect pivoting, and that, like fox trotting, do not compare to wavedashing. There is a reason why its not predominant in tournaments, it got potential, but clearly won't have the impact of wavedashing.


Yes it is fair for him to comeback against you because you were careless enough to become complacent and didn't respect the options he had at his disposal against you, this is what Melee and Third Strike fans don't get about the games that followed the whole point is to make sure it's a battle until the very end as you yourself also have that comeback advantage.

Results don't lie dude Diddy was strong but he never dominated in the way Fox and Falco have same with Sheik, look at the tournament results of Smash IV they're varied, a lot of Diddy's winning was done by Zero who is the most adept Smash IV player if you removed Mango from Melee you'd still have 2 other Fox players dominating even new upcoming greats in Smash are Fox and Falco's, Diddy is not even in the same ball park as them. If Zero didn't win the next guy would be Nairo (ZS Samus) if not him it's Dabuz (Rosalina) then Ally (Mario) etc...

Those mechanics aren't predmoinant in tournaments because they've only been recent discoveries and we're in the first year of Smash IV, unlike in Melee these mechanics not working for all situations is why they can have a big impact on the metagame, they become an option for a player rather then a neccessity much like in an RTS you don't always have to build every unit due to the situation you won't always have to use these mechanics, something that if you don't respect you get punished or hit with that come back factor.



IkePoR said:
Clyde32 said:


Melee elitists are the reason I'm seeing. While I agree that the melee community itself needs to not be such jerks to everyone else, Melee is still an amazing game.

Yes the community is the issue.  14 years of Fox/Falco; Fox/Shiek grand finals will do that to you.

Melee is an awesome game casually.  Competitivly it's down to a matter of out Foxing your opponents Fox.  Seriously, the best 3 guys have it down to a science now.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that... just that it's weird how it's still entertaining to people.

To me, even if you don't like playing Smash 4, seeing the meta develop is more interesting.


Only one of the top 5 players in the world main fox. 



HollyGamer said:
Azzanation said:
ethomaz said:

People like to say others fighting games are popular but the real truth is:

Ranking by #s entrants.

  • Ultra Street Fighter IV – 2,227
  • Super Smash Bros. for Wii U – 1,926
  • Super Smash Bros. Melee – 1,869
  • Mortal Kombat X – 1,162
  • Guilty Gear Xrd – 968
  • Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 – 816
  • Tekken 7 – 458
  • Persona 4 Arena Ultimax – 437
  • Killer Instinct – 397

Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/01/street-fighter-iv-and-smash-bros-for-wii-u-have-the-most-entrants-at-evo-2015/#33oYghG9jiWPzL5x.99

Fun fact... KOF13 had 319 entrants last year and it is out of EVO this year.

More popular yes, better? probably not.

popular because it's better lol, there is no other way to determine how good games beside with popularity. You can argue many times how good your opinion is but you cannot beat popularity and general consensus lol.

I can easily argue the point. iPhones are the highest selling phones on the market, there not the best phones on the market. VW Beetles are the highest selling cars in the world, there not the best cars. Popularity does not mean the best. Its lke watching Sports, some of the biggest supported clubs in the world arent the greatest clubs in the world.

Popularity can be based off history and age of a product or franchise. Look at COD, its the highest selling FPS on the market and in my opinion its far from the best FPS game to play.

I think you understand now.



Azzanation said:
HollyGamer said:
Azzanation said:
ethomaz said:

People like to say others fighting games are popular but the real truth is:

Ranking by #s entrants.

  • Ultra Street Fighter IV – 2,227
  • Super Smash Bros. for Wii U – 1,926
  • Super Smash Bros. Melee – 1,869
  • Mortal Kombat X – 1,162
  • Guilty Gear Xrd – 968
  • Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 – 816
  • Tekken 7 – 458
  • Persona 4 Arena Ultimax – 437
  • Killer Instinct – 397

Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/01/street-fighter-iv-and-smash-bros-for-wii-u-have-the-most-entrants-at-evo-2015/#33oYghG9jiWPzL5x.99

Fun fact... KOF13 had 319 entrants last year and it is out of EVO this year.

More popular yes, better? probably not.

popular because it's better lol, there is no other way to determine how good games beside with popularity. You can argue many times how good your opinion is but you cannot beat popularity and general consensus lol.

I can easily argue the point. iPhones are the highest selling phones on the market, there not the best phones on the market. VW Beetles are the highest selling cars in the world, there not the best cars. Popularity does not mean the best. Its lke watching Sports, some of the biggest supported clubs in the world arent the greatest clubs in the world.

Popularity can be based off history and age of a product or franchise. Look at COD, its the highest selling FPS on the market and in my opinion its far from the best FPS game to play.

I think you understand now.

and ??? still " You can argue many times how good your opinion is but you cannot beat popularity and general consensus lol" period one against many opinion lol come one. This is the real world.



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Wyrdness said:

Yes it is fair for him to comeback against you because you were careless enough to become complacent and didn't respect the options he had at his disposal against you, this is what Melee and Third Strike fans don't get about the games that followed the whole point is to make sure it's a battle until the very end as you yourself also have that comeback advantage.

Results don't lie dude Diddy was strong but he never dominated in the way Fox and Falco have same with Sheik, look at the tournament results of Smash IV they're varied, a lot of Diddy's winning was done by Zero who is the most adept Smash IV player if you removed Mango from Melee you'd still have 2 other Fox players dominating even new upcoming greats in Smash are Fox and Falco's, Diddy is not even in the same ball park as them. If Zero didn't win the next guy would be Nairo (ZS Samus) if not him it's Dabuz (Rosalina) then Ally (Mario) etc...

Those mechanics aren't predmoinant in tournaments because they've only been recent discoveries and we're in the first year of Smash IV, unlike in Melee these mechanics not working for all situations is why they can have a big impact on the metagame, they become an option for a player rather then a neccessity much like in an RTS you don't always have to build every unit due to the situation you won't always have to use these mechanics, something that if you don't respect you get punished or hit with that come back factor.

I think you making some mistakes here... only one TOP played in Meele uses Fox.

There is more viable character in Meele right now than Smash IV.

And for your B tier beating S tier... sorry but it is due the player and not balance at all.



ethomaz said:
Cloudman said:
Wow, there are a lot of SF and Smash Bros fans... Like, jeez... o_O

To be fair they are better and more balanced games than others... Melee for example is the best Smash ever created.

I'm surprised MKX is so high.


That is entirely opinionated. 

For example, I believe it is the worst.



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Paatar said:

That is entirely opinionated.

For example, I believe it is the worst.

Yeap... 15 years showing you are the minority.



ethomaz said:

I think you making some mistakes here... only one TOP played in Meele uses Fox.

There is more viable character in Meele right now than Smash IV.

And for your B tier beating S tier... sorry but it is due the player and not balance at all.


Except at CEO The top 3 was a Fox battle, I give Armada credit though as he plays Peach, Leffen and Mango mainly stick to Fox. No sorry Nairo is in the top two as S4 goes so skill wasn't an issue it comes down to balance as Mario counters ZS Samus, Ally is good as well but he had a match up advantage which helped tip the balance, it's like picking Dhalshim and having to fight Yun. Again S4 tournaments go against what you're arguing as more characters have broken top 8 and are breaking top 8 in S4 in the period since launch which is why that tier list changes each month, I still remember when Lil Mac and Bowser were claimed to be top tier, a Bowser player made top 8 at CEO funny enough, this is why a number of S4 players are mastering 3 or so characters as you can't stick to one character.



Wyrdness said:

Except at CEO The top 3 was a Fox battle, I give Armada credit though as he plays Peach, Leffen and Mango mainly stick to Fox. No sorry Nairo is in the top two as S4 goes so skill wasn't an issue it comes down to balance as Mario counters ZS Samus, Ally is good as well but he had a match up advantage which helped tip the balance, it's like picking Dhalshim and having to fight Yun. Again S4 tournaments go against what you're arguing as more characters have broken top 8 and are breaking top 8 in S4 in the period since launch which is why that tier list changes each month, I still remember when Lil Mac and Bowser were claimed to be top tier, a Bowser player made top 8 at CEO funny enough, this is why a number of S4 players are mastering 3 or so characters as you can't stick to one character.

The tiers changes today because games updates... in previous games it was not a option.

Devs changes the balance to try to make the game more balanced... SFIV had a lot of tiers too... diferent from old games that didn't have the chance to change the balance and so the tiers.