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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Opinion: I think it is very fair to say that if a game is indie, it's indicative of its poor quality

Lawlight said:
Normchacho said:
I agree that there are plenty of bad indie games, but I don't think being indie means it's bad. I can think of quite a few indie games that I really enjoyed.

Flower
Broforce
Double Dragon Neon
Counter Spy
Oli Oli 2
Transistor
Journey
Race the Sun

Just of the top of my head, but you get the point I think. You just need to know what matters to you in a game and look for those qualities.

Flower and Journey are definitely not indie. And I don't Counter Spy is either.


Sure they are, what makes you say they aren't?



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Behemoth make some really good games though.



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Normchacho said:
Lawlight said:

Flower and Journey are definitely not indie. And I don't Counter Spy is either.


Sure they are, what makes you say they aren't?


They were funded and co-developed by SCEA.



Lawlight said:
Volterra_90 said:
Yeah. Shovel Knight, The Swapper, Stealth Inc. 2, Brothers, Super Meat Boy, Fast Racing Neo... are such a bad games... I prefer some AAA titles like The Order:1886. THAT's a freaking good game.

Money doesn't equal quality, please...


You picked an AAA game that was poorly reviewed while all my examples are of indie games that are highly rated.

While there are bad AAA games, the ones that are highly rated tend to be good - Uncharted, God of War, The Last of Us, Borderlands, Far Cry 3, Dragon's Dogma, etc, etc...


What I'm trying to say is that being an indie game doesn't make that game bad. There are a lot of examples of AAA bad games, and there are a lot of bad indie games too. It has nothing to do with their budget. The main problem about indie games is that there are a lot of shovelware because anyone can make and publish a rubbish game... And I think that they high rated indie games are actually very good, but that's not the case with some AAA titles which are painfully bad.



Most Indies are utter crap but when you encounter gems like Bastion or Super Meat Boy, it makes up for it tenfold.



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At least three games in your list was great, much better than typical retail games. I'm sad for you, but then again everyone is free to like what they like.



Lawlight said:

Opinion: I think it is very fair to say that if a game is from a big third party publisher, it's indicative of its poor quality

Fixed the title for you, as that would be more correct imo. They're are just Marketing-overbloated graphic engines with no ideas or direction since the last millenium.

The main problem with Indies are that they don't get much exposition if any at all, so you're out to find out yourself it a game is any good or not, or even if the genre of the respective games are anything you like. Word of mouth is helpful, but it doesn't tell anyone if the genre of the game is appealing to the respective gamers.

They also cover mostly games from more unpopular genres (shooters, for instance, are a rare type of games for indies, just like non-open world action-adventures, since there are more than enough already on the market) and without shiny graphics (although titles like project Cars and Star Citizen beg to differ), mostly because they cover more unconventional ideas. Pixel art is often used because they can't afford an expert in graphics, but good pixel art is just as difficult to do. Just compare Freedom Planet or Shovel Knight with the likes of a Fist of Awesome for example, you'll see instantly the difference between good and bad pixel art.

And also the fact that less talented persons (to put it nicely) often try to make some games without having a proper direction themselves, resulting in rather horrible games, but that's mostly just on Steam Greenlight. On consoles, these games are much less prevalent, if they occur at all. The culprit here are engines like Unity, Game Maker or RPG Maker, in itself truly superb engines, but which attracts a lot of shenengians, and their asset markets, which gets abused to hell and back from these types of "programmers"



pokoko said:
Lafiel said:
pokoko said:

It's a false dichotomy and most people who believe it are only hurting themselves.

What does "indie" even mean? By the literal definition, Insomniac is indie. So is Bungie.

A lot of people think it means team size. Where, then, is the dividing line? 20 people? 50 people? 100 people? Seems kind of silly.

I've got a better dividing line: games that interest me and games that don't. I don't give a rat's ass about the size of the team that made the game, I don't care if people call them "indie" or "AAA". All of that is completely irrelevant.

Some games from smaller studios are good, some are bad. Some AAA games are good, some are bad. I've spent over 100 hours in This War of Mine and would take it over Assassin's Creed any day of the bloody week.

If people want to base what they play one these little labels, that's fine with me. Don't blame me for chuckling, though.

a "pure" definition of the term "indie game" would probably be a game which is self-funded and self-published by a developer independend from any publisher

by that defintion Insomniac or Bungie afaik never did an "indie game", although they are "indie developers"

The trouble there is that quite a few games that many would consider as "indie" have used outside publishers.


The trouble is "indie" is a meaningless label. XBLA had a "indie" channel which many cite as being the perfect example of how poor so many indie games are, but then it was filled 99% with homebrew software.

Like you say, people call Child of Light indie. It was funded and published by one of the biggest publishers in the industry. 2D or "retro" themed aren't necessarily indie. Nor is low budget. But indie also isn't restricted to a single genre or style.



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No it is not fair to say that. Indie=independently developed. Naturally, being more indies means there will be more bad ones. That's just the odds man. But there are quality indie games. Shovel Knight, Freedom Planet, FAST Racing League (and the upcoming Neo), Kingdom Come Deliverance, Star Citizen, Dust: An Elysian Tail, No Man's Sky, Elite: Dangerous, Terraria, the list just goes on. To say "indie=bad" is an unfair generalization. There are too many quality indies to make that kind of statement.



I've liked a lot of indie games. I think the mix is similar to full retail games, most are ordinary and forgettable, or downright bad, some are good, great or excellent.



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