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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why don't larger devs give Wii U owners a chance through kickstarter or sites like it

DonFerrari said:
Cloudman said:
oniyide said:


and that game still flopped (the numbers here are overtracked) so surely you must understand why a 3rd party would not want to spend time and money to make an exclusive game with that low install base? Hell they wont do that for Xone and PS4 and those systems are actually selling, let alone do it for WIi U

While it did not sell so well, it currently stands as the best selling 3rd party game, and it was a launch game, so it was starting with no base. While 3rd parties wouldn`t like risk trying a new game vs an established base, the games they did released did not make much sense in the first place, I believe. So they sold poor, perhaps not that much of a surprise to most people. Releasing games already estblished on previous consoles onto a new console, especially ones that start on a later half of a series, doesn`t seem like a good, nor fair way to test the base.

So the best selling game on WiiU was an exclusive and it didn't cover the cost. And for sure if it was MP it would do even worse. So you yourself is justifying why no 3rd party should bother doing it.

So when one new exclusive game does 'poor' it's time to quit and move on? I sure wouldn't have high opinions of those parties if that was the case. Also, currently, the sales of Zombi U are at decent numbers, not far off from some of the bigger title games of this year. There is also suspision that Ubisoft is lying about the costs of Zombi U, not having the budget of a AAA game, but a smaller one. And from the looks of the game, it doesn't seem that demanding of a game either, with some issues around the game. But hey, it did too poor, along with the ports of other games, right? Time to call it quits then.



 

              

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captain carot said:
Tachikoma said:

Its wiiu owners that would be giving the publishers/developers a chance, not the other way around.

The third party situation as it stands is in a.small part down to specification differences, bit primarily down to people thinking they can get away with shoddy ports and broken promises.


Just one question, which promises?
I actually remember exactly two that where really broken.

Project CARS release and Rayman Legends being exclusive.

Nope. there are effectively publishers to blame (EA), to some degree. But at the same time there have been so many other things to blame. Assassins Creed 3 wasn't such a bad port except for loading time. AC 4 was. Yes. But after AC3 already doing bad. And after Zombi U at least not selling good, probably worse than VGC shows.

One to blame effectively is Nintendo. They've done it their way. Now they are in a position they have to handle the consequences. Not only the consequence of the weakest hardware but as well the consequence of not having features at all more and more people want.

I know guys who'd still only buy exclusives for Wii U if it was on par because they want their party chat and achievements/trophies. Just two examples. Maybe the Nintendo fanbase isn't that much interested in that. But other  gamers are.

Zombi U was a new ip on a new system, it was never destined to sell large numbers thus it's a bad example.

AC4 lagged consistently behind even the PS3 and 360 versions, with siginificantly lower framerates often between 6-8 fps slower, for a game that struggled to maintain 30 at the best of times on the PS3 and 360, 6-8fps is a huge difference, so let's not jump the gun and call AC4 a good port shall we.

Then there was Rayman which was ready for release but got delayed for WiiU because it wasnt ready for other systems, then there was watchdogs.

Then there were large numbers of third party publishers/developers that picked up devkits from Ninendo after voicing their intents to make WiiU software, then never actually did.

You don't win user trust by shoveling poor ports and mistreating your customers, especially not when they're already going through a rough time with the platform holder, it is simple logic.



1.Most devs don't like working on the wiiu hardware. We have reports of complaing from devs on ubisoft, activision, EA and even the former THQ. It not like they are asking to work on the system, and big bad publisher are stoppping them

2. Its shamefull for a big publisher to ask for money. Remeber when the thq bundle came and everyone pointed their finger at them? Its not about not having the money. Its about not feeling proud of doing it.



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Ruler said:
the same could be asked why they dont crow-funding their niche titles like Konami could have made with Castlevania or Contra. They are too proud for that i think


Although it could seem a strange qualm, I suspect you're right. While even talented devs, including famous ones and golden age stars, have no problems resorting to crowdfunding to start new projects, particularly if they are independent, or turn so again after having belonged to larger publishers for some time, take Chris Roberts with Star Citizen for example, it looks like big established publishers fear crowdfunding could belittle their image. I'd say they should see the issue from another point of view: particularly if crowdfunding is done to have just a port, not to fund a whole project, it could be seen as a service on-demand and nothing that could tarnish a good publisher's image. Haters would hate them in both cases anyway (not a publishers' exclusive, BTW, there are also haters that respect only money and just love huge publishers with lots of it and hate all indies unless they give up independence and accept to be taken over by big publishers), might as well make happy non-haters ready to fund a port and buy the game.



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Tachikoma said:
captain carot said:


Just one question, which promises?
I actually remember exactly two that where really broken.

Project CARS release and Rayman Legends being exclusive.

Nope. there are effectively publishers to blame (EA), to some degree. But at the same time there have been so many other things to blame. Assassins Creed 3 wasn't such a bad port except for loading time. AC 4 was. Yes. But after AC3 already doing bad. And after Zombi U at least not selling good, probably worse than VGC shows.

One to blame effectively is Nintendo. They've done it their way. Now they are in a position they have to handle the consequences. Not only the consequence of the weakest hardware but as well the consequence of not having features at all more and more people want.

I know guys who'd still only buy exclusives for Wii U if it was on par because they want their party chat and achievements/trophies. Just two examples. Maybe the Nintendo fanbase isn't that much interested in that. But other  gamers are.

Zombi U was a new ip on a new system, it was never destined to sell large numbers thus it's a bad example.

AC4 lagged consistently behind even the PS3 and 360 versions, with siginificantly lower framerates often between 6-8 fps slower, for a game that struggled to maintain 30 at the best of times on the PS3 and 360, 6-8fps is a huge difference, so let's not jump the gun and call AC4 a good port shall we.

Then there was Rayman which was ready for release but got delayed for WiiU because it wasnt ready for other systems, then there was watchdogs.

Then there were large numbers of third party publishers/developers that picked up devkits from Ninendo after voicing their intents to make WiiU software, then never actually did.

You don't win user trust by shoveling poor ports and mistreating your customers, especially not when they're already going through a rough time with the platform holder, it is simple logic.


As said before, AC3 wasn't a bad port. Just loading times from hell.

AC4 was a bad port. Bought it because of Off-TV though. But that was a bad port after other Ubi games selling really bad. And not only Ubi games. If AC 3 or any other third party game had done well Ubi might have put more time and money in the hand for this port.

As for new IP's, though that game was much more expensive, what about Ryse for example? Or Knack actually?

There where other games as well. Splinter Cell Blacklist from Ubi is one.

Not saying that all thirds did a great job. Everything EA did was pretty weird. NfS MW just in time with the other versions actually might have done well. And releasing Mass Effect 3 alongside a cheaper Mass Effect Trilogy for other platforms was outright stupid. Then there's that strange Crysis 3 story. Crytek claimed they had it up and running for Wii U.



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I'm a game developer and a Nintendo fan. Believe me when I say Kickstarter campaigns wouldn't do much to help this situation. Taking Project Cars as an example, the developers have the resources to develop for the Wii U, and they want to. They didn't back down because they thought they didn't have an audience on the Wii U. The system is just really difficult to develop for because of its low specs. Basically, even after doing their best, they may not be able to get the game to run at a steady 30fps without making heavy graphical sacrifices, and they've said that if it comes to that, they'd rather wait for the next Nintendo console.
Deploying the latest build of a game on the console to test it may take minutes, instead of seconds. This may not seem like a big deal, but it piles up, especially since we developers tend to make about a dozen new builds a day while testing features we're adding or updating.
Note: I haven't developed for the Wii U yet, but I've read and discussed things with other developers, and I understand where their difficulty is coming from. As it is, I still hope to develop a game for the Wii U soon. I'm an indie and its low specs will be more than enough for my game.



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Cloudman said:
DonFerrari said:
Cloudman said:
oniyide said:
 

 

 

So the best selling game on WiiU was an exclusive and it didn't cover the cost. And for sure if it was MP it would do even worse. So you yourself is justifying why no 3rd party should bother doing it.

So when one new exclusive game does 'poor' it's time to quit and move on? I sure wouldn't have high opinions of those parties if that was the case. Also, currently, the sales of Zombi U are at decent numbers, not far off from some of the bigger title games of this year. There is also suspision that Ubisoft is lying about the costs of Zombi U, not having the budget of a AAA game, but a smaller one. And from the looks of the game, it doesn't seem that demanding of a game either, with some issues around the game. But hey, it did too poor, along with the ports of other games, right? Time to call it quits then.


you can add Bayo 2(overtracked here) and W101 to that list too. Yeah it is time to quit, there is a word for doing something over and over and getting the same results. Hell the only 3rd party game that seemed to do alright was Lego City and that was after being bundled and price cuts. And i think that game was barely 3rd party as some of it was funded by Ninty. 

IMHO it seems there is a little denial going on. You still havent said what game would do well. So you know better than Ubi the cost of Zombi U? Right sure. If they say it flopped and it aint worth it then so it is. Remember it is way overtracked on this site. So yes when damn near ALL the games are flopping exclusive or otherwise then what is there left to do?



Cloudman said:
DonFerrari said:
Cloudman said:

While it did not sell so well, it currently stands as the best selling 3rd party game, and it was a launch game, so it was starting with no base. While 3rd parties wouldn`t like risk trying a new game vs an established base, the games they did released did not make much sense in the first place, I believe. So they sold poor, perhaps not that much of a surprise to most people. Releasing games already estblished on previous consoles onto a new console, especially ones that start on a later half of a series, doesn`t seem like a good, nor fair way to test the base.

So the best selling game on WiiU was an exclusive and it didn't cover the cost. And for sure if it was MP it would do even worse. So you yourself is justifying why no 3rd party should bother doing it.

So when one new exclusive game does 'poor' it's time to quit and move on? I sure wouldn't have high opinions of those parties if that was the case. Also, currently, the sales of Zombi U are at decent numbers, not far off from some of the bigger title games of this year. There is also suspision that Ubisoft is lying about the costs of Zombi U, not having the budget of a AAA game, but a smaller one. And from the looks of the game, it doesn't seem that demanding of a game either, with some issues around the game. But hey, it did too poor, along with the ports of other games, right? Time to call it quits then.

NO I'm not saying after 1 game you must quit... I said that the best selling game didn't sold enough even being exclusive, so after other games done even worst then they quit.

Also if you have a bad opinion of them because of that, it's quite normal that they don't have good opinion of the fanbase that don't buy their games... so it's fair game.

Seems like the devs are always lying to some of you guys. So why bother reading what they say?



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Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Tachikoma said:
captain carot said:


Just one question, which promises?
I actually remember exactly two that where really broken.

Project CARS release and Rayman Legends being exclusive.

Nope. there are effectively publishers to blame (EA), to some degree. But at the same time there have been so many other things to blame. Assassins Creed 3 wasn't such a bad port except for loading time. AC 4 was. Yes. But after AC3 already doing bad. And after Zombi U at least not selling good, probably worse than VGC shows.

One to blame effectively is Nintendo. They've done it their way. Now they are in a position they have to handle the consequences. Not only the consequence of the weakest hardware but as well the consequence of not having features at all more and more people want.

I know guys who'd still only buy exclusives for Wii U if it was on par because they want their party chat and achievements/trophies. Just two examples. Maybe the Nintendo fanbase isn't that much interested in that. But other  gamers are.

Zombi U was a new ip on a new system, it was never destined to sell large numbers thus it's a bad example.

AC4 lagged consistently behind even the PS3 and 360 versions, with siginificantly lower framerates often between 6-8 fps slower, for a game that struggled to maintain 30 at the best of times on the PS3 and 360, 6-8fps is a huge difference, so let's not jump the gun and call AC4 a good port shall we.

Then there was Rayman which was ready for release but got delayed for WiiU because it wasnt ready for other systems, then there was watchdogs.

Then there were large numbers of third party publishers/developers that picked up devkits from Ninendo after voicing their intents to make WiiU software, then never actually did.

You don't win user trust by shoveling poor ports and mistreating your customers, especially not when they're already going through a rough time with the platform holder, it is simple logic.


We can find dozen of explanations and justifications for each failure... but when there isn't a single case of success does the justifications seem plausible or the truth is that there isn't much to gain on going for WiiU??? All MP have sold very bad, the exclusives haven't done wonders as well... W101, Bayo, Zombie, etc none have done really well.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

its always 3rd parties fault (sometimes it is, most times it isnt). THe other two consoles rarely have an issue. Even there late ports sell ok to good. So it has to be something on Ninty. Maybe if they stopped producing weired HW that is a pain in the ass to work for it will be ok.