Oh, interesting. I guess they are doing fine as always
Curious to see Xbox numbers and Windows Phone numbers. The Lumias are so tempting... But my Nexus 4 won't die

Will be very interesting. I am guessing 360 will continue to fall of quite sharply, especially in the US+UK. Hopefully MS show seperate numbers this time.

kowenicki said: walsufnir said: Oh, interesting. I guess they are doing fine as always Curious to see Xbox numbers and Windows Phone numbers. The Lumias are so tempting... But my Nexus 4 won't die I cant even begin to guess either.  I have no faith in the tracking at the moment, so it is really difficult to say.  How much did 360 fall this year? How much has ONE shipped?  Who knows....?

Don't get angry with what I will say but the intersting is the loss it made from xb1 price cut in USA!Although it's easy to count it,50$ loss per console(399$ manufacturing cost-349$ price=50$ loss per console),2.4m xb1 sold in November-December in the USA equals to 120.000.000 loss!

However,it has to be bigger as there were bundles that contained 2 games that ms of course paid the developers for them and also didn't  get  any profit from them as the bundle were being sold at 349$ too...

Edit:47$ loss per console,as xbone manufacturing cost is 396$ and not 399$,so 112.800.000 loss!

tak13 said: kowenicki said: walsufnir said: Oh, interesting. I guess they are doing fine as always Curious to see Xbox numbers and Windows Phone numbers. The Lumias are so tempting... But my Nexus 4 won't die I cant even begin to guess either.  I have no faith in the tracking at the moment, so it is really difficult to say.  How much did 360 fall this year? How much has ONE shipped?  Who knows....?  Don't get angry with what I will say but the intersting is the loss it made from xb1 price cut in USA!Although it's easy to count it,50$ loss per console(399$ manufacturing cost-349$ price=50$ loss per console),2.4m xb1 sold in November-December in the USA equals to 120.000.000 loss! However,it has to be bigger as there were bundles that contained 2 games that ms of course paid the developers for them and also didn't  get  any profit from them as the bundle were being sold at 349$ too...

How do you get the $399 for manufacturing cost?! I guess you are quite wrong here...

Tagging for later

walsufnir said: tak13 said: kowenicki said: walsufnir said: Oh, interesting. I guess they are doing fine as always Curious to see Xbox numbers and Windows Phone numbers. The Lumias are so tempting... But my Nexus 4 won't die I cant even begin to guess either.  I have no faith in the tracking at the moment, so it is really difficult to say.  How much did 360 fall this year? How much has ONE shipped?  Who knows....?  Don't get angry with what I will say but the intersting is the loss it made from xb1 price cut in USA!Although it's easy to count it,50$ loss per console(399$ manufacturing cost-349$ price=50$ loss per console),2.4m xb1 sold in November-December in the USA equals to 120.000.000 loss! However,it has to be bigger as there were bundles that contained 2 games that ms of course paid the developers for them and also didn't  get  any profit from them as the bundle were being sold at 349$ too... How do you get the $399 for manufacturing cost?! I guess you are quite wrong here...

http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/29/the-deanbeat-the-xbox-one-cost-471-to-make-the-ps4-costs-381-and-why-this-matters-in-the-long-run/ 

KInectless xbox one's manufacturing cost is 396$(Sorry,for saying it's 399$:P)so 47$  loss per console=112.800.000

tagging.

kowenicki said: walsufnir said: Oh, interesting. I guess they are doing fine as always Curious to see Xbox numbers and Windows Phone numbers. The Lumias are so tempting... But my Nexus 4 won't die I cant even begin to guess either.  I have no faith in the tracking at the moment, so it is really difficult to say.  How much did 360 fall this year? How much has ONE shipped?  Who knows....?

How can you have no faith in the tracking at the moment when VGC was about as close to NPD in the Xb one tracking as they have ever been? Is it because when they adjusted PS4 down they also adjusted Xb one down? In the case of the USA that downward adjustment seems to have been born out by the NPD result. And the downward adjustment also makes sense in the case of the UK with the independant information that came out regarding PS4 Dec sales and cumulative Nov+Dec sales vs Xb one. If VGC had to adjust down PS4 in the UK to get the LTD aligned with Sony PR, then is was absolutely necessary to adjust Xb one down in oder for VGC to be reasonably consistent with independant UK hardware tracking. Rest of world is of course a different matter. But as UK+USA seems to be 71% of Xb one's market then reasonable accuracy in those two markets pretty much means total Xb one will be reasonably accurate.

IIRC VGC adjusted UK for Xb one when the 1 million was announced for the UK. But I might be wrong in that recollection. Was the 1 million mark pegged as mid-November?

Unless of course you think Xb one is overtracked here. Some people claim Gafers are estimating Xb one at 10 million sell through as of 3 January. But I have no idea of the basis for any Gafer predictions, as they have less information to go on that VGC.

Anyway, Billions in profit no doubt thanks to the core business. Positive PR about Surface, WP and Xb one. Due to the over all make up of the D&C division I expect it to be profitable. D&C's profit will probably exceed Sony's and Nintendo's total operating profit for the quarter. But we will have no clue about whether Xb one is profiting or not. XBL revenue will be across 7th and 8th gen. Game sales will be across 7th and 8th gen and PC. However Xb one is performing financially will be hidden from public view. Only senior people in MS will know.

Wonder if we'll get any sort of figures tomorrow ...

You can't base end of 2014 manufacturing costs on year-old calculations. Even if they were highly accurate at the time. I would not be surprised that Xb one manufacturing cost has dropped to ~$350. But even so, with distribution, marketing and retailer margin thrown in that's still a loss on each console for MS. Just not as big as your posts have been suggesting. But you've also got to take into account the money MS had to pay to be able to pack ACU and AC:BF into that $350 price tag. That will bleed several dollars off the Xb one revenue steam into MS as well.

Assuming there is some loss being made with Xb one. Which I think there probably is. I think it's disingenuous to dismiss possibly $100 million loss as peanuts. The question is, what is MS buying with that loss. If you look at a loss as an investment in something, then the loss isn't a loss. But if the loss isn't actually achieving anything meaningful then it's just a loss and it's a drag on the company. The question is what value does MS get from being in the console business in the first place, and what value does it get from having 1-2 million more Xb one's in homes than it would have had if it was at $399 through the holidays? From an MS corporate strategy perspective I think consoles are old news, and the game console sector is a distraction for MS. Xbox was created to fight a war for control of the living room. Game consoles in general have lost that war. The war was one by tablets, Apple TV (and similar devices), and even the good old PC. Now that you can stream content direct from several multi-purpose devices what place do consoles have in the living room apart from gaming for gamers. Consoles are more multi-purpose than ever, but the reality they will never be seen as anything other than gaming devices with some other features. And now game streaming is becoming the next thing, which will make consoles that much more obolete. This is why I believe 8th gen will be smaller than 9th gen, and that traditional console sales peaked in gen 7. Consoles is no longer a battle ground in which MS should have an interest, and to lose money in a sector that is no longer relevant to MS's strategy is a waste. Indeed one might argue that MS was distracted by Xbox to the point that they missed the opportunity to get out in front, or at least be the fastest follower, with smartphones and tablets.