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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - First screens, price, and file size for Watch Dogs Wii U

Mr Puggsly said:
Materia-Blade said:

budget is necessary to PRUDUCE a game, not to port. lol for your watch dogs example, what does it have to do with the subject? you know that ubisoft moved the developers behind the wii u port, wich caused the delay, right?

now talk about the support that never existed from most companies. also, no continuing the support as the installed base grows.

you are free to have your definition of sales failure but most people would disagree with those numbers.

Nope, you're wrong.

For example, doing a port of Mass Effect 3 or Batman Arkham City was an easier job because they use the Unreal engine. That engine was already ported to the Wii U. However, Watch Dogs uses the Distrupt engine. So the Watch Dogs port is more work than Unreal engine games, because they have to port the new engine and the game.

Namco is using the Unreal engine for the next Tekken because that engine is already on all major platforms. Therefore its less work for them to port that game.

Another example, Titanfall uses the Source engine because they wanted to be able to port it on multiple platforms easily. But that decision was made before it became a Xbox and Windows exclusive.

 

The Wii U install base is growing, but they primarily just want Nintendo games. Year over year, core software sales didn't see much if any growth even with the the userbase growing.

Wii U fans like yourself set the bar for success lower than 3rd party publishers. You say Zombi U is a successful AAA exclusive, while 3rd parties obviously disagree with you.

the budget of porting is a fraction of a fraction of the budget to develop the game itself.

speak for yourself when you talk about preferences of the userbase. and your "core software" decreased in sales, year after year,  on ps360. AC 4 sold much less than AC3, batman AO sold one third of what Arkham city sold, cod also decreased a lot. can't complain about those games performance on wii u when they failed everywhere else.



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TheSpindler said:
mine said:

 

 

Mr Puggsly said:

Nope, you're wrong.

For example, doing a port of Mass Effect 3 or Batman Arkham City was an easier job because they use the Unreal engine. That engine was already ported to the Wii U. However, Watch Dogs uses the Distrupt engine. So the Watch Dogs port is more work than Unreal engine games, because they have to port the new engine and the game.

Namco is using the Unreal engine for the next Tekken because that engine is already on all major platforms. Therefore its less work for them to port that game.

Another example, Titanfall uses the Source engine because they wanted to be able to port it on multiple platforms easily. But that decision was made before it became a Xbox and Windows exclusive.

 

The Wii U install base is growing, but they primarily just want Nintendo games. Year over year, core software sales didn't see much if any growth even with the the userbase growing.

Wii U fans like yourself set the bar for success lower than 3rd party publishers. You say Zombi U is a successful AAA exclusive, while 3rd parties obviously disagree with you.

 

You can ask any Wii U gamer if they want only games published by Nintendo. 

Not the case. Not even remotely.

 

What Wii U owners want are unique quality games. Not halfbacked ports which which are there because the eninge used works on the Wii U too.

 

Zombii U failed because the reviews weren't that good. It's like the first Red Steel. Right direction but somehow flawed execution.

 


Not the same I'd say.  Red Steel was built on lies, from the very first trailer, from the graphics to the gameplay.  Zombi U however had everything up front, and was undersold in just what it does.  I'd more blame that on the fact that the game actually changed twice and the original game was an entirely different one.  And the Zombi U game had alot of things working against it, A)A new horror IP on the Wii U B)It changed from the original game C) Seemed to be a bit of a budget title, not a looker by any means D)Not nearly enough weight(marketing) put behind it as a new IP.  You'd need it to be big in what you're trying to convey, the genre it's in and to properl show its new gameplay concepts to get people on board E) doing some things very differently from a normal horror IP, and confused reviewers F)Needed more polish or time in the oven.

Red Steel was mediocre and all its ideas fell flat and never delivered.  Zombi U at least delivered some of its promise, and Red Steel still sold more.  Too bad there'll never be another one.  I doubt Zombi U would sell on PS4/XBO with the kind of problems and little marketing it had.  Also dat name.  You can't sell a game like that, with the marketing you put forth with a name like that.

This. I know a ton of people bought Red Steel on the idea that it would offer 1:1 sword combat in a video game, which seemed like a pipe dream would be coming to life in 2007. There was absolutely no mistaking what Zombi U was.

I think the other big difference between Red Steel and Zombi U is simply the initial install bases of each system close to launch. If the Wii U had blown the doors of the gate like its predecessor, I think it would have put up Red Steel's numbers. I don't think it was a case of customers unwilling to support the game, but customers unwilling to purchase the system to get to the game. The customers who purchased the system supported the game.



Well, there are Wii-U-Users who care about 3rd-Party, but Ubisoft just gives a shit about.

1) Rabbids Land only had 20 Games (if you don't count in variations)
2) Rayman Legends went from Wii-U-Exclusive to delayed to Multiplat (still sold better than PS360 anyways)
3) Ubiart games not released (though the engine is already here and proven working, exception: Child of Light)
4) Another game already made (possibly another Rabbids installment), not released because: *insert random PR*
5) Watch_Dogs: developers pushed away for PS4/XBones, half year of delay, only Map on GamePad (even JustDance utilizes the GamePad 300% better), no DLC, full-prize (50 € should have been the max. given the delay and  the absence of DLC). There's only one reason why it is actually released and not canceled: it's been too far in development and even some saled copies are better than a complete loss by not releasing it months before finishing it. Now why should we be happy about it? 90% of interessted Wii-U-Users most likely already bought it on another plattform.
6) They said JustDance and SSB:4 will "save" Wii U. ... ehem. ... SSB:4 - very likely, given 200k+ pre-orders in US, but... JUSTDANCE?? lol and Ubisoft wants us Wii-U-Users to take them serious? I mean if they would have said Watch_Dogs we would have been "yep, another random PR", but JUSTDANCE?

Though the word "save" is misplaced by Ubisoft as the Wii U is not generating any loses anymore since May this year. So financally it is already saved, though still not as successful as it's competitors.

Yes, the installbase isn't growing fast, but what's been first? The low installbase or Ubisofts treatment of Wii-U-Users? Either way, both went into a spiral, now Ubisoft says Wii-U-Users are shitty for not buying their stuff and we say they are shitty for not releasing anything good. And don't tell me I should be happy that Watch_Dogs actually comes to Wii U, that's bullshit. I'm happy Platinum and Monolith release their stuff for Wii U, but I'm not happy for delayed stuff paired with nothing special and a tip of bad PR beforehand.

Even Indies have better treats for us then Ubisoft: Shantae: 1/2 Genie Hero, Mighty No. 9, Hover: Revolt of Games, Citizens of Earth, Earthlock, just to name a few.

I miss the glorious days of Ubisoft where they just made games and no crap. I miss Evolutions Worlds, Beyond Good & Evil and others. Well, not actually, as I still own them, but you'll get what I mean. And yes, I bought ACIII, ACIV, Rayman Legends and CoL for Wii U. So I haven't given up on Ubisoft in first place nor do I really hate them... more precisly... they just annoy me.

I make a bold prediction: Watch_Dogs for Wii U will sell less than Xbones in Nippon.



NNID: setialpha

Nanolx said:

Well, there are Wii-U-Users who care about 3rd-Party, but Ubisoft just gives a shit about.

1) Rabbids Land only had 20 Games (if you don't count in variations)
2) Rayman Legends went from Wii-U-Exclusive to delayed to Multiplat (still sold better than PS360 anyways)
3) Ubiart games not released (though the engine is already here and proven working, exception: Child of Light)
4) Another game already made (possibly another Rabbids installment), not released because: *insert random PR*
5) Watch_Dogs: developers pushed away for PS4/XBones, half year of delay, only Map on GamePad (even JustDance utilizes the GamePad 300% better), no DLC, full-prize (50 € should have been the max. given the delay and  the absence of DLC). There's only one reason why it is actually released and not canceled: it's been too far in development and even some saled copies are better than a complete loss by not releasing it months before finishing it. Now why should we be happy about it? 90% of interessted Wii-U-Users most likely already bought it on another plattform.
6) They said JustDance and SSB:4 will "save" Wii U. ... ehem. ... SSB:4 - very likely, given 200k+ pre-orders in US, but... JUSTDANCE?? lol and Ubisoft wants us Wii-U-Users to take them serious? I mean if they would have said Watch_Dogs we would have been "yep, another random PR", but JUSTDANCE?

Though the word "save" is misplaced by Ubisoft as the Wii U is not generating any loses anymore since May this year. So financally it is already saved, though still not as successful as it's competitors.

Yes, the installbase isn't growing fast, but what's been first? The low installbase or Ubisofts treatment of Wii-U-Users? Either way, both went into a spiral, now Ubisoft says Wii-U-Users are shitty for not buying their stuff and we say they are shitty for not releasing anything good. And don't tell me I should be happy that Watch_Dogs actually comes to Wii U, that's bullshit. I'm happy Platinum and Monolith release their stuff for Wii U, but I'm not happy for delayed stuff paired with nothing special and a tip of bad PR beforehand.

Even Indies have better treats for us then Ubisoft: Shantae: 1/2 Genie Hero, Mighty No. 9, Hover: Revolt of Games, Citizens of Earth, Earthlock, just to name a few.

I miss the glorious days of Ubisoft where they just made games and no crap. I miss Evolutions Worlds, Beyond Good & Evil and others. Well, not actually, as I still own them, but you'll get what I mean. And yes, I bought ACIII, ACIV, Rayman Legends and CoL for Wii U. So I haven't given up on Ubisoft in first place nor do I really hate them... more precisly... they just annoy me.

I make a bold prediction: Watch_Dogs for Wii U will sell less than Xbones in Nippon.

pretty much this, but I think it will outsell the x1 japanese numbers (it's not hard).



Materia-Blade said:

the budget of porting is a fraction of a fraction of the budget to develop the game itself.

speak for yourself when you talk about preferences of the userbase. and your "core software" decreased in sales, year after year,  on ps360. AC 4 sold much less than AC3, batman AO sold one third of what Arkham city sold, cod also decreased a lot. can't complain about those games performance on wii u when they failed everywhere else.

How much do you think it costs to port a game, lets say from the Xbox 360 to the Wii U (the easiest port possible)? How many units do you think the game has to sale at full price before recovering the costs of the port? How many more to make a decent profit?



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Materia-Blade said:

the budget of porting is a fraction of a fraction of the budget to develop the game itself.

speak for yourself when you talk about preferences of the userbase. and your "core software" decreased in sales, year after year,  on ps360. AC 4 sold much less than AC3, batman AO sold one third of what Arkham city sold, cod also decreased a lot. can't complain about those games performance on wii u when they failed everywhere else.

That's true, but it still cost more than you think to make a Wii U port. Otherwise more would exist. The orignal Wii kept getting CoD because it was moving significantly more than Wii U ever has.

AC4 was still a huge seller on PS360. The PS4 and X1 versions had significantly better sales than the Wii U version as well.

Arkham Origins is like Borderlands: Pre Sequel. Its just a side game developed by a different studio and given less hype. It still sold over 3 million combined on 360 and PS3. But on Wii U... a measly 180K.

Its funny, you consider AC4 and Batman:AO failures on 360 and PS3 failures. But you say ZombiU and Bayonetta 2 are a success? That's void of all logic.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Materia-Blade said:

the budget of porting is a fraction of a fraction of the budget to develop the game itself.

speak for yourself when you talk about preferences of the userbase. and your "core software" decreased in sales, year after year,  on ps360. AC 4 sold much less than AC3, batman AO sold one third of what Arkham city sold, cod also decreased a lot. can't complain about those games performance on wii u when they failed everywhere else.

That's true, but it still cost more than you think to make a Wii U port. Otherwise more would exist. The orignal Wii kept getting CoD because it was moving significantly more than Wii U ever has.

AC4 was still a huge seller on PS360. The PS4 and X1 versions had significantly better sales than the Wii U version as well.

Arkham Origins is like Borderlands: Pre Sequel. Its just a side game developed by a different studio and given less hype. It still sold over 3 million combined on 360 and PS3. But on Wii U... a measly 180K.

Its funny, you consider AC4 and Batman:AO failures on 360 and PS3 failures. But you say ZombiU and Bayonetta 2 are a success? That's void of all logic.

there would be more ports if it wasn't for the bribery.

with the ps360 installed bases, the "low' sales and decrease were failures.



flagstaad said:
Materia-Blade said:

the budget of porting is a fraction of a fraction of the budget to develop the game itself.

speak for yourself when you talk about preferences of the userbase. and your "core software" decreased in sales, year after year,  on ps360. AC 4 sold much less than AC3, batman AO sold one third of what Arkham city sold, cod also decreased a lot. can't complain about those games performance on wii u when they failed everywhere else.

How much do you think it costs to port a game, lets say from the Xbox 360 to the Wii U (the easiest port possible)? How many units do you think the game has to sale at full price before recovering the costs of the port? How many more to make a decent profit?

you can't say that porting from ps360 is the easiest. when you consider the gpu intensive architeture of wii u/ps4/x1, it makes more sense to think it cost less to port from pc/ps4/x1.

I'm thinking 100-150k sales is enough to cover the costs of most ports. that's a number many multiplats surpassed on a lower installed base. as time goes on, the sales potential only increases (because of installed base), yet we see companies not announcing games that are releasing 2015 and onwards. and again, many never released a single game on wii u. bribery is the most obvious explanation.



Materia-Blade said:

there would be more ports if it wasn't for the bribery.

with the ps360 installed bases, the "low' sales and decrease were failures.


What bribery? That's just you speculating, no facts.

With your logic, PS4 and X1 games shouldn't sell better than PS360 games because of the smaller userbase. But it happens often.

Decrease in sales doesn't equte to failure. Poor numbers like AC on Wii U is failure. ACIV on PS3 and 360 still sold great, multi million sellers, and that's why AC:Rouge is coming. The Wii U's ACIV was a failure and its not getting AC:Rogue.

Mario Kart 8 will never achieve the sales of past Mario Kart games. But if its very profitable, then its a success. Simple as that.



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Materia-Blade said:

you can't say that porting from ps360 is the easiest. when you consider the gpu intensive architeture of wii u/ps4/x1, it makes more sense to think it cost less to port from pc/ps4/x1.

I'm thinking 100-150k sales is enough to cover the costs of most ports. that's a number many multiplats surpassed on a lower installed base. as time goes on, the sales potential only increases (because of installed base), yet we see companies not announcing games that are releasing 2015 and onwards. and again, many never released a single game on wii u. bribery is the most obvious explanation.

Porting from 360 to Wii U is the easiest and cheapest. X1, PS4 and PC use a x86 CPU while the Wii U uses a Power PC CPU and the power difference is big so a lot has to be re-done for the port to exists.

The trick with the sales is that each third party game needs around 125k-150k at FULL PRICE to just cover the costs, but the companies actually want to make a profit not just cover the costs, a decent profit will require around 250k-300k at full price to "make it worth it" which means that only 4 to 6 multiplataform ports have actually make a decent profit on the console and a few have actually lost by porting their games... like Deus Ex, Splinter Cell, Re: Revelations, Injustice, Darksiders 2, Batman: Arkham Origins and a few others that reached their current numbers at bargain price.

Is just too much of a risk when the succesful rate is so low, a shame because a few good ports just got slaughtered on the console. It is simple math, is not worth it to port for the console from the PS3 and 360, is even worse from the PS4 and X1.