But you see thats true for all AMD gfx cards (And nvidia ones) even the 7870, or else my 6870 would be out doing that too (Yes i know the Ps4 one is custom made 7870 but still stands), now i do know that the will be a point where PS4 games will out match my 6870 fully,  but i remember last gen no 4 year old graphics card could even come close to the one that was in the 360 and this gen we already have cheap cards that can match and outperfom this gen of consoles pretty easy and once mantle and DX12 launch that direct to metal access wont be a problem no more or at least not as big of a one as it has been.

But pretty much before somone else takes this and trys to turn it into something else that i dont even want to get into, my main point of what i said and all im trying to say is that thanks to lastgen lasting so long and this gen kinda dropping the ball on power, it has made it a great time to get into PC gaming as it has never been easier or cheaper to build a gaming PC that can keep up with the nextgen consoles where as at the start of lastgen that would of costed you a few k's to match the 360 and PS3.

Keep in mind, I only have the slightly faster 560Ti in my machine, so I'm not hating on PC here.  But, you can't expect a modified APU that's been out for less than a year to have the same kind of API refinement as a GPU that's been out for 4 years.

Ehh, with Maxwell's release, and the Pirate Islands and the new memory standard (HBM) coming early 2015, the standard prices of old GDDR memory is going to plummet. AMD will already have to cut prices to keep their old gen in the race against the Maxwell line when the 960 launches (which will be cheaper than the 970 by a good margin). GPUs that far outstrip the PS4/X1 will be easily affordable on a budget within a few months. In fact the HBM reveals are really going to ramp up the developments on the GPU end, and we're going to see prices of old cards drop off fast.

HBM is going to really change the game on the APUs side of the market too, leading to even better budget builds with built in graphical capabilities at budget prices.

Everything else can already be had at a decent price without much trouble by finding deals or shopping circa Black Friday. You can already build to or beyond the specs of the consoles on a budget of 400-500$ (give yourself an extra 50$ for not having to pay for PSN+ or XBL), and in a years time it will be even easier to completely blowpast the current consoles with a small budget. Once the basic architecture of a PC is built for a person, they can and will always be ahead of the console curve if Sony/MS stick to x86 architecture on both price and performance because the majority of the guts will never need changing outside of some unforseen failure, like your RAM, PSU, Mobo/CPU, etc....

Wouldn't you play multiplats on 360 though? They are almost always better even to today (Destiny for example). I can understand if you don't own both, but that was my reason for owning a 360. I thought the exclusives sucked on 360, but otherwise it was a superb console (ignoring rrod). I loved the OG Xbox exclusives and the system. X1 I feel is their worst effort compared to the competition, but I'm willing to give Phil Spencer the benefit of the doubt and blame Mattrick for the issues I have with it. Phil took over less than a year ago, and it will take time to see the results of his new plans. I expect a great showing at e3 2015, as we should see the fruits of his new directives. He can't fix the console design, but he can still be a general that leads it to a better state for Xbox fans and gamers at large. I

I think going back to having tons of AA exclusives like the OG days is far better than a handful of tired IPs run into the ground as AAA budget muck. I'd be okay never seeing another Halo, Gears, or Fable ever again. 

Pretty much your taking what i originally said off track to try explain to me about how the PS4 GPU is "Only new" and my 6870 is 4 years old so devs had lots of time to work with it and thats why its able to keep up to the PS4 and now they have to learn all new things (False) to program for the PS4, fact is even if the PS4 APU has a highly modified 7870 like card performance in it still doesnt change the fact devs hard lots of time to work with the same type of hardware for years!.

But like i said all this still just goes with my original point that now is a great time to get into PC gaming and its never been easier or cheaper.

So why then with me even putting that at the end of my last message are you still trying to prove to me that in 4 years time PS4 devs will be able to outdo my card? (I think within another year or 2 but still) when i already said that?? point is when that does happen ill be able to go give 150 for a card that once again will easy out perform the PS4 and saying that devs had more time to optimize games for my old card is a very very poor argument to be making anyways imo as that didnt hold true lastgen when no 4 year old card could match the 360 yet this gen cards are doing it easy. That is the whole point im making is that this gen people can build PC's that can match the PS4 for around the same price and that makes it a great time for anyone that isnt yet into PC gaming to get into it as it has never been easier or cheaper.

Eh?  I wasn't commenting on any of that.  Simply the silliness of expecting a brand new API to be as refined as that of a 4 year old card (that's wasn't a slouch either).  And I also pointed out in an earlier response that there are cards that can easily destroy the PS4/XB1...hell, combined.  Titan Z and R295X2 have nearly 3x and 4x the performance of both consoles together, respectively.  I was actually curious though, the cards that murder other tech are easy to point out, but what cards/PC setups are 'slightly' better...like, where's the break even point.

My reply was more aimed at the whole discussion going on, lol.

But referencing Titans or 295X is somewhat pointless here and way overkill, they cost far too much for any common gamer to go out of their way and buy. What I am talking about is that cards that are on the affordable end can already keep up with the current generation on IQ and, more often than not, the whole rig will be able to run the games at 60 FPS (I would say that similar IQ and 60 FPS is "slightly better" than consoles). With Maxwell's release, the scope of affordable is going to change drastically as old-gen cards even from the high-end of AMDs portfolio will have to slide down the price tag to keep in the race until Pirate Islands. As of right now, the R9270 is more than enough ($170 market price, obviously buy it on sale) but, as I said, these prices are going to get really scrambled soon when the Maxwell 960 drops.

CPUs and the other guts aren't really changing much in yield or otherwise. You'll spend more on the PC's first build in general, as I said, 400-500$ but you won't be paying the $$$$ for online play which will quickly pile up, and every subsequent PC update will be cheaper. Heck, Tom's had a not to long ago article on a budget PC bought complete at market price for 573$ which was more than capable of high gaming.

But you see your the one who for a start asked for a break even point, and then when i pointed out that my old 6870 could still match the newer gen consoles (That should give you a very good break even point like you where asking for!) you started stating that thats pretty obvious since devs have had 4 years to "Refine" for the 6870 O_o but yet i was only giving you what you asked. Now all you need to do is see what newer low end cards match the 6870 and bam you have your break even point .

Only reason its beyond silly is that you have no real way to counter it so go to the "Its silly" stance.

GDDR5 has been around for years just cos the PS4 now has 8GB shared doesnt mean devs doesnt know how to use it, Also your still failing to see or just dont want to see what im saying. It doesnt matter that the PS4 has 8 ACE's wow thats really going to have to make devs come up with a whole new way of thinking i can see now how that will take them years to learn!!....

Still doesnt change the fact my old HD6870 can match the PS4 so far something that couldnt be said about a 4 year old card last gen .