PS4 indies are like 360 arcade titles.

360 indie games are like 99 percent unplayable crap made in one night by 10 year olds. They don't have achievements, only a very few are decent to good.

PS4 indies are games like Pinball Arcade and Mercenary Kings. Quality games from real development teams. They have trophies and a professional development quality.

When xbox fans rag on "indie station" I honestly think they are failing to realize these are not the same things. Part of the most important thing on 360 was a constant supply of XBLA games. It's just not realistic to have awesome AAA retail releases every week. I'm lucky if two retail games I want come out in a month. Arcade/Indie games keep me occupied in between these spaces. Some of 360's best games were Arcade titles and in the end of the PS4's life I'm willing to bet it will have been the same situation.

I just don't honestly understand how anyone can so easily dismiss having so many extra games available regardless of your console of choice. If they don't appeal to you that's fine but that doesn't mean they don't appeal to other people.

Not really. When people were saying "Xbox doesn't get any games" in the last few years, it wasn't discounting indies. It was because MS basically abandoned the console. Yea, there was a bunch of indies on XBL, but they were also on PS3 as well, so you couldn't use it as a talking point to make the 360 look better (on the flipside, the XBone doesn't have much of the same indies as PS4). So all the 360 was getting were multiplatform games and crappy Kinect games.

And the difference between then and now is that PS4 owners are merely saying "hey, we have all these games to play. The PS4 doesn't have "no gaemz". Xbox 360 fans, on the flip side, were saying "Xbox 360 library is so much better than PS3 because we have Braid" for example. In a time where the consoles are still new, all we're saying is that there is content to be enjoyed. Whereas, I remember seeing on here some months back where someone said it was too late to put Minecraft on PS consoles, Sony "dropped the ball there" and that 360 had better exclusive content due to Minecraft. There's a difference, here, in people's perceptions to indies. It's not "oh indies didn't count on 360, but they all of a sudden count on PS4".

And even if it were a simple as that, don't act like Xbox fans haven't been flip flopping all over the place anyway. Better resolution/framerate, better sales, exclusive DLC in games, etc. were topics Xbox fans were championing all last gen and now, all of a sudden, they don't matter.

I agree but that goes both way. When the original Xbox had more power than PS2 it was a huge argument for the Xbox owners and the PS2 owners claimed it really didn't matter.

My view is that if I'm going to have a console for 5-8 years then I would like it to be as powerful as possible. There is no down side to that.

That's a significantly different scenario, though. Gen 6 was so lopsided in favor of the PS2 that despite being more powerful, Xbox just didn't get as many games. Yea, sports games, Soul Calibur 2, and late multiplat releases (GTA and MGS2 come immediately to mind) looked better on Xbox, but when Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts, Tekken, MGS3, Devil May Cry, etc. never touched the console, power comparisons don't matter. You can have the most powerful console, but it doesn't mean anything when it doesn't have the games to back it up. There was no "sharing 95% of the same library" in gen 6 between PS2 and Xbox. Such a comparison only became relevant between PS3 and 360 because they shared so many games, and it looks like it'll be that way this gen too.

For example, I could have that $9600 Mac that blows everything out the water, but there's no point when most of Steam's games are only on PC.

The difference is bigger because I'm sawing a lot of games not listed for PS4 in this comparision.

BTW Octodad launches today... I will buy it.

I don't know, Kingdom Hearts aside all of my favorite games that generation were on Xbox. Morrowind, Kotor, Fable and far superior versions of the original Splinter Cell trilogy come to mind. All those games you named either didn't matter to me at the time or came out in HD versions last gen.

That 9 thousand dollar Mac serves arguably many far more important uses than just playing games. Despite what some people like to believe I still think a console serves one primary function: to play games.

i was agreeing with you though. People pick and choose their arguments regardless of whether or not they have argued against that same point previously. Politics are full of this as well. It really doesn't matter what point mattered before if you just ignore that and claim the opposite. People usually have short enough memories to not call you out on such bullshit flip flopping.

Those Kinect games weren't crappy.  They may not have appealed to you and I but if they sold one copy to one person, and somebody enjoyed them then they were good games.  Just not good to you.  And low Metacritic scores don't count.  A game is a game.

Wise men in this thread taught me that.

Agreed. And I would in no way consider a plants vs zompie game AAA. But let's at least compare apples to apples people.

Is it good? I don't think it's out here (NA). I definatly want it though.

Oh, come on man. That's just being PC about the topic. If that's the case, SuperMan 64 wasn't a crappy game, Jaws 4 wasn't a crappy movie, and the XFL wasn't a crappy football league....as long as one person liked it.  

Good thing I have reading comprehension skills.

Confusing Indies with Hobbyists, is a terrible insult to the future developers of the industry. Especially, when I'm aspiring to be an indie.

Contrast is nothing like No Luca No (if were being serious here its a terrible game -1/100)

However to be fair to XBLA their were many gems like TKA. Quality Control was neccessary, so it doesn't suprise me that XO is more strigent on indies for the X1.

Furthermore, XBLA games had to compete with exclusives like Halo, Gears, Fable, Forza not to mention multiplats and the PS3 library.

Conversely, PS4 Indies which are of generally higher production value then XBLA games are facing competition from maybe 4 exclusives and 10-15 multiplats right now.