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Iwata: "we´re thinking about a new business structure"

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Soundwave said:

What I gather is that Nintendo is growing frustrated with trying to sell consoles. Aside from the Wii era they have been in tough with consoles for 15 years now and it's finally starting to burn them financially.

Truth is the market for a "family friendly" console simply isn't there anymore. The console market is driven by people who want something more along the lines of what Sony/MS offer, not Nintendo's model of basically a modernized N64 every gen.

The Wii was just a freak success, not a sustainable business model in the long run. 

Maybe a Steam-meets-Netflix type service might be under consideration? One where the consumer doesn't have to pay for any hardware or just a moderate cost? 

I disagree with the idea that the Wii was a freak success. The Wii was serving an underserved end of the market, and since Nintendo bought into the industry bullshit that these customers were lesser customers, have not been serving them properly. The casuals moved on because of Nintendo's bungled handling of the latter phase of the Wii's lifecycle, not because they simply don't care about gaming and would rather engage on phones.

The Wii U's entire problems are that Nintendo was once again trying their hand at making what they think passes for a red ocean console, but as I said in another thread, the idea of making something like a PS3 or a 360 is just completely out of Nintendo's frame of reference. Their engineers *could* make a competitive console, but they're so wrapped up in the idea of "withered technology" that any attempts at making a competitive console end up creating something strange, in-between, and undesirable.

Ergo, Nintendo either needs to completely clean house at their hardware engineering department and rebuild from scratch (which isn't going to happen), or sit back and try to focus on applying their strengths to the market needs again.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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benji232 said:
BeElite said:
benji232 said:
BeElite said:
benji232 said:
BeElite said:
benji232 said:

Fair enough, but then Nintendo wouldn't benefit from going 3rd party because they wouldn't have their own OS and controller to make their games unique like they are today. See miiverse and the gamepad (although the gamepad hasn't been used much since launch, I am sure they will make the next Zelda game and other games round the idea of the gamepad).

EDIT: Also, saying that they don't make good hardware is a sack of bs. They CHOOSE to make underpowered hardware. However, they could easily make consoles as powerful as the ones of MS and Sony (See gamecube).


1)Their own OS or controller is irrelevent.  They are a game company they would easily adapt unless they are incompetent chumps.

Theres little unique about wiiu games.  Pad is near pointless, 2)they wanted to create a new fad and saw tablet sales and thus came this giant moronic controller.  3)It has added nothing to my gaming on the wiiu, it actually hampers it. 4) They make weak hardware cause its cheap, they chose to give you a inferior product so they can make more money of you.

5)You all need to stop being delusional and apolagetic for their screwups and shortcomings and give up some weird emotional attachemnt and think for a second just posibly great 3rd party might be for ninty.  

So much wrong in this post. Where to start. 

1) Oh yea? So wii sports, wii sports resort, Nintendoland, Skywardsword, Mario kart wii, Wii party/wii party U, and I could go on forever. Also, have you ever heard miiverse? 

2) Good job pulling shit out of your ass. They specifically said a few years ago that they began wiiU developpement BEFORE tablets had even begun being so popular.

3) Sorry to hear that for you, what's your miiverse username?

4) Again, pulling shit out of your ass. You seem to like doing that don't you? Looking at most of your posts on this forum. They're selling the system at a lost, that's some big profits that they are raking in from that so called "overpriced" console.

5) You just need to stop arguing without presenting any facts. Thank goodness that you're not in charge of any gaming company as big as Nintendo, because i'll tell you that much, they would be going down the shitter if you were in charge of them. I bet you didn't know that 65% of all of their revenues comes from selling hardware didn't you? Oh right! Your logic would mean that they would sell 5-10times more software on Xbox/PS to replace their lost revenues! That's brillant! So instead of selling 8-10M mario kart copies, you think they'd sell 50M! 

Indeed, calling people blind when you are encouraging them to do something even worse. If there is one person blind in this thread, it's definetly you. Present me some factual data other then "their hardware is shitz, controller is shitz" and then we can talk. 

Their current situation is not good with wiiU, however, the solution is most definetly not going third party. 


1 waggle fad is over get over it, id rather play Kart and Zelda on PS4 not last gen hardware.
2 Tablets like products have been around since early 90s, Apple just popularized the hell out of them.  Either way it was a shit idea that no one ever wanted for gaming, proof is in the fact they cant even market why the fuck the pad is there and their games dont even need it.
3 huzar95
4 They are losing cash casue they were forced to drop price due to SHIT sales.  Ninty does not make $ losing harware willingly.
5 lol they sure seem to be running the company to the ground with out me as ceo, from 9m forcast to 2.8 Ninty is taking Nin down the shitter themselfs no need for anyones help.  
And here do their profits come from ? do you know.

Where are ninty supporter facts ? its just emotions belives no facts at all.

You havent a clue if it be worse or not, you just feel or think it would be and spout that bs like facts.

Their situation over all is not good, Everythign they have been doing has driven them here.  Id rather a succesful 3rd party Nin then no nin at all or just a pathetic 3rd wheel like sega was its last two console gens.

 

1) Irrevelant comment. I proved you that Nintendo games do indeed need their own controller/OS in order to exist. You replied with something that isn't revelant to the topic at hand. However, I expected that from you.

2) I told you, facts is not " This is shitz! I hate this shtizzz!!!" Please bring a constructive sentence in order to argue which could preferebly not be so subjective.

3) "User could not be found" Hmmmmm.

4) Ha! Another fact pulled out of your ass! Hillarious because they were indeed selling the system at a loss since the very launch of the wiiU. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wii-u-to-be-sold-at-loss/1100-6398857/

5) Indeed, 2 net losses in 30 years = going down the shitter. Their profits come from selling hardware and software (the 8th generation was an exception to this rule, however, I doubt they will repeat that same mistake going in gen 9).

It's hard to understand you when your sentences are so poorly constructed. But anyways, it is ironic that you're the one saying that people are "spouting bs" when YOU'RE the one who has pulled so many so called "facts" out of your ass. I proved you wrong on serveral of your claims here and yet you keep going at it. And I guess your reading skills are pretty poor since you're asking for facts and yet I pointed 1 fact that is very important: 65% of ALL of their revenues is from hardware.  Here, I underlined it for you. 

So I will repeat it again, you believe that Nintendo would sell 50million copies of Mario kart 8 on Xbox/PS to replace their lost revenues? Or actually, BRING ME some facts as to why it would ADVANTAGE them to go third party.

Profits child learn what it is in regards to revenue.  Wrap you mind around those things before you go crying 65% revenue.

nin net id huzar95, or are you one of those pathertic ninty supporters that does not even own their console.  

Smaller revenue for a big corporation = smaller profit margin. My children, KEEP talking out of your ass, you're making yourself look like someone who is completely clueless. I mean, comon.

Also, I searched you on miiverse, it says user not found. I own a wiiU since day 1. You're the pathetic one in this thread, no one else. Proof is, you couldn't even counter any of my arguments. Instead, you just keep calling me names. In which, it just proves that I'm right or else you'd be bringing out some proof.

1 You proved nothing, you can game on the wiiU using Nintys own pro controller.  Past gen is irrelevent, even ninty moved on from waggle why dont you.
2 you telling any one anything does not make it a fact.
3 keep lying.
4 then they are bigger idiots then i though, their only saving grace through the gens has been they did not lsoe on hardware.
5 other then the wii each gen their console sales have dropped, and are nearing irrelevency with the Wiiu.  

Big revenue means nothing when you are posting a loss, do you not understand that concept ?  Nintys greatest profits are from their software, with its hardware failing its profits will drop like a rock by the virtue of selling on a tiny user base.  For a game dev like them smaller revenue yet big profits is ideal, mainting posative margins.  Not foolishly losing money to grow revenue hoping to eak out a tiny profit.

You cry hardware revenue yet dont get the inmplications that they are operating at a loss, and they cant profit from software if there is no hardware sold.

Only pathetic ones are the people that cant open their minds to the possablity of 3rd party and what befeits there may be.  This is all just a hypothetical discussion yet so many are so blind and delusional you can even fanthom a possability of them achiving success being trd party.




If I'm reading this right, prior to 2012 Sony was overall in the positive going all the way back to 1996. The PS3 destroyed all the PS2 profits, but assuming the PS4 is a hit, as it appears to be, they could be back in the positive in as little as 2 years. Not as grim as people paint it.



benji232 said:
oniyide said:
benji232 said:

You've seen it merely a couple years ago: Wii and DS.


come on man, the Wii and DS were doing MUCH better than Wii U was its not even close. Again ive seen nothing that suggests that Wii U is going to suddenly start selling great, Wii's time been over.

Where did I say that WiiU or 3DS was going to sell as much or outsell wii and ds? Please copy/paste where I said that. You said that you couldn't see them raking in big sales ever again. And the reason why I responded to you with wii and ds is that when GC and Gameboy Advance was on the market, was ANYONE forecasting Nintendo to do 5times better in the console front and 2 times better in the handheld market merely a few years after? The correct answer is: No. The wiiU and 3ds aren't going to sell nearly as much as their predecessors. However, this does not mean that they won't see another huge success in the near future.

why are you pulling stuff that i didnt say. the situation for WIi and Wii U are NOT comparable period. Wii was good out the gate. Wii U isnt. Was anyone thinking Wii U was going to do THIS badly? No they didnt, any suggesting was deemed trolling. The Wii U hasnt even been out two years and you are talking about some future imaginary console? I was talking strictly about WIi U and i thought you were doing the same. 



oniyide said:
benji232 said:
oniyide said:
benji232 said:

You've seen it merely a couple years ago: Wii and DS.


come on man, the Wii and DS were doing MUCH better than Wii U was its not even close. Again ive seen nothing that suggests that Wii U is going to suddenly start selling great, Wii's time been over.

Where did I say that WiiU or 3DS was going to sell as much or outsell wii and ds? Please copy/paste where I said that. You said that you couldn't see them raking in big sales ever again. And the reason why I responded to you with wii and ds is that when GC and Gameboy Advance was on the market, was ANYONE forecasting Nintendo to do 5times better in the console front and 2 times better in the handheld market merely a few years after? The correct answer is: No. The wiiU and 3ds aren't going to sell nearly as much as their predecessors. However, this does not mean that they won't see another huge success in the near future.

why are you pulling stuff that i didnt say. the situation for WIi and Wii U are NOT comparable period. Wii was good out the gate. Wii U isnt. Was anyone thinking Wii U was going to do THIS badly? No they didnt, any suggesting was deemed trolling. The Wii U hasnt even been out two years and you are talking about some future imaginary console? I was talking strictly about WIi U and i thought you were doing the same. 

No no, I think you missed my point. WiiU is indeed in a very bad situation. And it is indeed not comparable to the wii. I never argued that. I was simply taking wii and DS as examples to show you that Nintendo's current situation today in home consoles does not mean that they won't have any success in that market in the future. Which is why I was trying to solidify my argument by bringing in the transition from gen 6 to gen 7 (20 million consoles to 100 million consoles and 80 million handhelds to 150 million handhelds).



Predictions for LT console sales:

PS4: 120M

XB1: 70M

WiiU: 14M

3DS: 60M

Vita: 13M

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benji232 said:
pezus said:

OS has nothing to do with the hardware.

By hardware I obviously meant consoles - power, ease of developing and the like. 

MS and Sony would be going backwards...

Fair enough, but then Nintendo wouldn't benefit from going 3rd party because they wouldn't have their own OS and controller to make their games unique like they are today. See miiverse and the gamepad (although the gamepad hasn't been used much since launch, I am sure they will make the next Zelda game and other games round the idea of the gamepad).

EDIT: Also, saying that they don't make good hardware is a sack of bs. They CHOOSE to make underpowered hardware. However, they could easily make consoles as powerful as the ones of MS and Sony (See gamecube).

So just because the CHOOSE to make the hardware like they do they make good hardware? You're confusing Nintendo's game making ability with their ability to make hardware. They choose to make cheap hardware to increase their profit. Nintendo could easily design games around MS and Sony's consoles, and they would be less restricted as well. 



benji232 said:

5) You just need to stop arguing without presenting any facts. Thank goodness that you're not in charge of any gaming company as big as Nintendo, because i'll tell you that much, they would be going down the shitter if you were in charge of them. I bet you didn't know that 65% of all of their revenues comes from selling hardware didn't you? Oh right! Your logic would mean that they would sell 5-10times more software on Xbox/PS to replace their lost revenues! That's brillant! So instead of selling 8-10M mario kart copies, you think they'd sell 50M! 

Indeed, calling people blind when you are encouraging them to do something even worse. If there is one person blind in this thread, it's definetly you. Present me some factual data other then "their hardware is shitz, controller is shitz" and then we can talk. 

Their current situation is not good with wiiU, however, the solution is most definetly not going third party. 

Where did you get the 65% number? I'll assume it's true.

Them dropping hardware development would decrease their revenue while potential for much higher software sales, as well as the reduced cost due to R&D, marketing etc. would increase their revenue. Besides, using percentages can be misleading. In WiiU's case, the hardware sales representing 65% of its revenue is still very little money.



BeElite said:
benji232 said:
BeElite said:
benji232 said:
BeElite said:
benji232 said:
BeElite said:
benji232 said:

Fair enough, but then Nintendo wouldn't benefit from going 3rd party because they wouldn't have their own OS and controller to make their games unique like they are today. See miiverse and the gamepad (although the gamepad hasn't been used much since launch, I am sure they will make the next Zelda game and other games round the idea of the gamepad).

EDIT: Also, saying that they don't make good hardware is a sack of bs. They CHOOSE to make underpowered hardware. However, they could easily make consoles as powerful as the ones of MS and Sony (See gamecube).


1)Their own OS or controller is irrelevent.  They are a game company they would easily adapt unless they are incompetent chumps.

Theres little unique about wiiu games.  Pad is near pointless, 2)they wanted to create a new fad and saw tablet sales and thus came this giant moronic controller.  3)It has added nothing to my gaming on the wiiu, it actually hampers it. 4) They make weak hardware cause its cheap, they chose to give you a inferior product so they can make more money of you.

5)You all need to stop being delusional and apolagetic for their screwups and shortcomings and give up some weird emotional attachemnt and think for a second just posibly great 3rd party might be for ninty.  

So much wrong in this post. Where to start. 

1) Oh yea? So wii sports, wii sports resort, Nintendoland, Skywardsword, Mario kart wii, Wii party/wii party U, and I could go on forever. Also, have you ever heard miiverse? 

2) Good job pulling shit out of your ass. They specifically said a few years ago that they began wiiU developpement BEFORE tablets had even begun being so popular.

3) Sorry to hear that for you, what's your miiverse username?

4) Again, pulling shit out of your ass. You seem to like doing that don't you? Looking at most of your posts on this forum. They're selling the system at a lost, that's some big profits that they are raking in from that so called "overpriced" console.

5) You just need to stop arguing without presenting any facts. Thank goodness that you're not in charge of any gaming company as big as Nintendo, because i'll tell you that much, they would be going down the shitter if you were in charge of them. I bet you didn't know that 65% of all of their revenues comes from selling hardware didn't you? Oh right! Your logic would mean that they would sell 5-10times more software on Xbox/PS to replace their lost revenues! That's brillant! So instead of selling 8-10M mario kart copies, you think they'd sell 50M! 

Indeed, calling people blind when you are encouraging them to do something even worse. If there is one person blind in this thread, it's definetly you. Present me some factual data other then "their hardware is shitz, controller is shitz" and then we can talk. 

Their current situation is not good with wiiU, however, the solution is most definetly not going third party. 


1 waggle fad is over get over it, id rather play Kart and Zelda on PS4 not last gen hardware.
2 Tablets like products have been around since early 90s, Apple just popularized the hell out of them.  Either way it was a shit idea that no one ever wanted for gaming, proof is in the fact they cant even market why the fuck the pad is there and their games dont even need it.
3 huzar95
4 They are losing cash casue they were forced to drop price due to SHIT sales.  Ninty does not make $ losing harware willingly.
5 lol they sure seem to be running the company to the ground with out me as ceo, from 9m forcast to 2.8 Ninty is taking Nin down the shitter themselfs no need for anyones help.  
And here do their profits come from ? do you know.

Where are ninty supporter facts ? its just emotions belives no facts at all.

You havent a clue if it be worse or not, you just feel or think it would be and spout that bs like facts.

Their situation over all is not good, Everythign they have been doing has driven them here.  Id rather a succesful 3rd party Nin then no nin at all or just a pathetic 3rd wheel like sega was its last two console gens.

 

1) Irrevelant comment. I proved you that Nintendo games do indeed need their own controller/OS in order to exist. You replied with something that isn't revelant to the topic at hand. However, I expected that from you.

2) I told you, facts is not " This is shitz! I hate this shtizzz!!!" Please bring a constructive sentence in order to argue which could preferebly not be so subjective.

3) "User could not be found" Hmmmmm.

4) Ha! Another fact pulled out of your ass! Hillarious because they were indeed selling the system at a loss since the very launch of the wiiU. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wii-u-to-be-sold-at-loss/1100-6398857/

5) Indeed, 2 net losses in 30 years = going down the shitter. Their profits come from selling hardware and software (the 8th generation was an exception to this rule, however, I doubt they will repeat that same mistake going in gen 9).

It's hard to understand you when your sentences are so poorly constructed. But anyways, it is ironic that you're the one saying that people are "spouting bs" when YOU'RE the one who has pulled so many so called "facts" out of your ass. I proved you wrong on serveral of your claims here and yet you keep going at it. And I guess your reading skills are pretty poor since you're asking for facts and yet I pointed 1 fact that is very important: 65% of ALL of their revenues is from hardware.  Here, I underlined it for you. 

So I will repeat it again, you believe that Nintendo would sell 50million copies of Mario kart 8 on Xbox/PS to replace their lost revenues? Or actually, BRING ME some facts as to why it would ADVANTAGE them to go third party.

Profits child learn what it is in regards to revenue.  Wrap you mind around those things before you go crying 65% revenue.

nin net id huzar95, or are you one of those pathertic ninty supporters that does not even own their console.  

Smaller revenue for a big corporation = smaller profit margin. My children, KEEP talking out of your ass, you're making yourself look like someone who is completely clueless. I mean, comon.

Also, I searched you on miiverse, it says user not found. I own a wiiU since day 1. You're the pathetic one in this thread, no one else. Proof is, you couldn't even counter any of my arguments. Instead, you just keep calling me names. In which, it just proves that I'm right or else you'd be bringing out some proof.

1 You proved nothing, you can game on the wiiU using Nintys own pro controller.  Past gen is irrelevent, even ninty moved on from waggle why dont you.
2 you telling any one anything does not make it a fact.
3 keep lying.
4 then they are bigger idiots then i though, their only saving grace through the gens has been they did not lsoe on hardware.
5 other then the wii each gen their console sales have dropped, and are nearing irrelevency with the Wiiu.  

Big revenue means nothing when you are posting a loss, do you not understand that concept ?  Nintys greatest profits are from their software, with its hardware failing its profits will drop like a rock by the virtue of selling on a tiny user base.  For a game dev like them smaller revenue yet big profits is ideal, mainting posative margins.  Not foolishly losing money to grow revenue hoping to eak out a tiny profit.

You cry hardware revenue yet dont get the inmplications that they are operating at a loss, and they cant profit from software if there is no hardware sold.

Only pathetic ones are the people that cant open their minds to the possablity of 3rd party and what befeits there may be.  This is all just a hypothetical discussion yet so many are so blind and delusional you can even fanthom a possability of them achiving success being trd party.

I know that you're banned, but i'll still take the time to answer you. 

1) Is nintendoland possible without the gamepad? Is wiiparty U possible without the gamepad? Granted, as I said earlier in this thread, currently, they haven't done much to prove why the gamepad is important. The wii examples were to prove you that Nintendo games can indeed not be possible on other system (or atleast some of them). Also, you can be damn sure that the next zelda will be using the gamepad.

2) This is where I highly doubt you have a wiiU (and the fact that I can't find you on miiverse doesn't help). If you actually owned one, you would know that the gamepad is not even close to being a so called tablet. The only caracteristic that it has in common with a tablet is the touch screen.

3) I'm not lying, I searched multiple times and it says "user not found".

4) Atleast you admitted that you were wrong. And I actually agree with you, they were indeed idiots to sell the system at a loss from the start. They should have known better imo. But like I said earlier, they probably won't repeat that mistake (I hope not).

5) True, however, we have no idea where the wiiU will end up in terms of sales. It has an unprecedented sales curve. For all we know, sales could relatively blow up this year. We have no idea.

And yes, I understand that revenue =/= profits. However, what you can't seem to understand is that, for a big corporation like Nintendo, it needs X amount of revenue in order to profit. They would need to replace a good portion of that large chunk of revenue that they would lose by going third party. And quite frankly, they wouldn't. Not only would they get less money per game sold as a 3rd party publisher, but they would also lose all their royalties.



Predictions for LT console sales:

PS4: 120M

XB1: 70M

WiiU: 14M

3DS: 60M

Vita: 13M

pezus said:
benji232 said:

5) You just need to stop arguing without presenting any facts. Thank goodness that you're not in charge of any gaming company as big as Nintendo, because i'll tell you that much, they would be going down the shitter if you were in charge of them. I bet you didn't know that 65% of all of their revenues comes from selling hardware didn't you? Oh right! Your logic would mean that they would sell 5-10times more software on Xbox/PS to replace their lost revenues! That's brillant! So instead of selling 8-10M mario kart copies, you think they'd sell 50M! 

Indeed, calling people blind when you are encouraging them to do something even worse. If there is one person blind in this thread, it's definetly you. Present me some factual data other then "their hardware is shitz, controller is shitz" and then we can talk. 

Their current situation is not good with wiiU, however, the solution is most definetly not going third party. 

Where did you get the 65% number? I'll assume it's true.

Them dropping hardware development would decrease their revenue while potential for much higher software sales, as well as the reduced cost due to R&D, marketing etc. would increase their revenue. Besides, using percentages can be misleading. In WiiU's case, the hardware sales representing 65% of its revenue is still very little money.

From their financials. 

Like I said in my previous post, they would be losing royalties, sales from hardware and they would get less money per game sold. I highly doubt they would recover all that revenue lost. Also, I agree with you, it would reduce the overall cost. However, not nearly enough to recoup all that profit that they could be potentially making. Unless they downsize considerably. 

Put it that way, Nintendo would have way less potential profits by only publishing games then by selling hardware+ selling games. Obviously, as I said multiple times, the situation of the wiiU is not ideal (assuming it stays at that level base for the reminder of it's life time). However, completely quitting hardware would be a dumb decision. Also, i'd like to point out that publishing Nintendo games on other people consoles would hurt their handheld business aswell. 

Too many cons vs so few pros. 



Predictions for LT console sales:

PS4: 120M

XB1: 70M

WiiU: 14M

3DS: 60M

Vita: 13M

benji232 said:
oniyide said:
benji232 said:
oniyide said:
benji232 said:

You've seen it merely a couple years ago: Wii and DS.


come on man, the Wii and DS were doing MUCH better than Wii U was its not even close. Again ive seen nothing that suggests that Wii U is going to suddenly start selling great, Wii's time been over.

Where did I say that WiiU or 3DS was going to sell as much or outsell wii and ds? Please copy/paste where I said that. You said that you couldn't see them raking in big sales ever again. And the reason why I responded to you with wii and ds is that when GC and Gameboy Advance was on the market, was ANYONE forecasting Nintendo to do 5times better in the console front and 2 times better in the handheld market merely a few years after? The correct answer is: No. The wiiU and 3ds aren't going to sell nearly as much as their predecessors. However, this does not mean that they won't see another huge success in the near future.

why are you pulling stuff that i didnt say. the situation for WIi and Wii U are NOT comparable period. Wii was good out the gate. Wii U isnt. Was anyone thinking Wii U was going to do THIS badly? No they didnt, any suggesting was deemed trolling. The Wii U hasnt even been out two years and you are talking about some future imaginary console? I was talking strictly about WIi U and i thought you were doing the same. 

No no, I think you missed my point. WiiU is indeed in a very bad situation. And it is indeed not comparable to the wii. I never argued that. I was simply taking wii and DS as examples to show you that Nintendo's current situation today in home consoles does not mean that they won't have any success in that market in the future. Which is why I was trying to solidify my argument by bringing in the transition from gen 6 to gen 7 (20 million consoles to 100 million consoles and 80 million handhelds to 150 million handhelds).

fair enough, but you are still jumping the gun. This gen JUST started, lets worry about it for now.