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Forums - Sony Discussion - Can Sony be saved? Stock near 32-year low.

kain_kusanagi said:
Kresnik said:
Millenium said:

*butts in*:

http://playstationlifestyle.net/2012/02/10/sony-we-should-probably-develop-less-games/


Heh, well your butt in was very informative :P Disappointing to read, but good to know!

Why is that disapointing? It doesn't mean less games it just means less Sony exclusives. If they sell of studios and IPs it just means mroe multiplatform games. That's good for everyone.


Idk, I feel like Sony is a lot more leniant with their studios than any other publisher would be, and that's worked out really well for me this gen - nearly all my favourite games have been PS3 exclusives, and they've generally all been of a really high calibre.

Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps they do push their studios as hard as Activision/EA, but it certainly never appears that way to me.  I mean, they let Polyphony work at their own pace on Gran Turismo - can you imagine Polyphony working with anyone else, say Microsoft, and having to release a new Forza game every 2 years?

There's other stuff too.  They put up with Studio Liverpool turning out incredible WipEout games every few years that never have stellar sales, but as an independent company I'd imagine they'd be long gone by now - alongside all the other British indie game devs beside Codemasters who managed to go under this generation.

Just stuff like that is why I like Sony, and why it's disappointing.  Plus, I'd say their first-party roster isn't even that big really - probably the same size as Nintendo's EAD studios, and potentially a lot less than all these brand new studios Microsoft have opened.



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Kresnik said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Kresnik said:
Millenium said:

*butts in*:

http://playstationlifestyle.net/2012/02/10/sony-we-should-probably-develop-less-games/


Heh, well your butt in was very informative :P Disappointing to read, but good to know!

Why is that disapointing? It doesn't mean less games it just means less Sony exclusives. If they sell of studios and IPs it just means mroe multiplatform games. That's good for everyone.


Idk, I feel like Sony is a lot more leniant with their studios than any other publisher would be, and that's worked out really well for me this gen - nearly all my favourite games have been PS3 exclusives, and they've generally all been of a really high calibre.

Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps they do push their studios as hard as Activision/EA, but it certainly never appears that way to me.  I mean, they let Polyphony work at their own pace on Gran Turismo - can you imagine Polyphony working with anyone else, say Microsoft, and having to release a new Forza game every 2 years?

There's other stuff too.  They put up with Studio Liverpool turning out incredible WipEout games every few years that never have stellar sales, but as an independent company I'd imagine they'd be long gone by now - alongside all the other British indie game devs beside Codemasters who managed to go under this generation.

Just stuff like that is why I like Sony, and why it's disappointing.  Plus, I'd say their first-party roster isn't even that big really - probably the same size as Nintendo's EAD studios, and potentially a lot less than all these brand new studios Microsoft have opened.

I fundementaly believe that games should be available for as many platforms as possible. There should never be a exclusive 3rd party game and 1st party games should be only the highest quality AAA or most experimental. But experimental risks should be kept to a managable moderation or it would be bad business.

I hate seeing small studios with great ideas get bought up by platform makers. I'd rather multiplatform publishers buy them up. Creative small developers like That Game Company and Twisted Pixel should be making games for as many people as possible not limited to half the market just to add a 1st party bragging list. Sony doesn't have creativity in mind, they want to control the market to maximise profit. The same goes for MS and Nintendo. It's never a good thing when a multiplatform developer gets gobbled up and made exclusive. I'm glad Bungie has gone back to multiplatform games. Halo is one of the greatest franchises in gaming history so it's good that the genius at Bungie will be open to all gamers. I'd love to see console gaming go the way of PC, which would mean one compatibility standard, multiple manufactures, and games for everybody. Sony, MS, Nintendo, and all the rest on one evolving platform. It's a dream, but a man can dream can't he?



Eventually they have to sell off some of their assets especially if they keep on loosing billions of dollars for a couple more years. Even if profits remain small for a long time they probably will sell of some of their assets to generate cash flow. I'm guessing Columbia Pictures will be owned by someone besides Sony in the near future.



Kresnik said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Kresnik said:
Millenium said:

*butts in*:

http://playstationlifestyle.net/2012/02/10/sony-we-should-probably-develop-less-games/


Heh, well your butt in was very informative :P Disappointing to read, but good to know!

Why is that disapointing? It doesn't mean less games it just means less Sony exclusives. If they sell of studios and IPs it just means mroe multiplatform games. That's good for everyone.


Idk, I feel like Sony is a lot more leniant with their studios than any other publisher would be, and that's worked out really well for me this gen - nearly all my favourite games have been PS3 exclusives, and they've generally all been of a really high calibre.

Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps they do push their studios as hard as Activision/EA, but it certainly never appears that way to me.  I mean, they let Polyphony work at their own pace on Gran Turismo - can you imagine Polyphony working with anyone else, say Microsoft, and having to release a new Forza game every 2 years?

There's other stuff too.  They put up with Studio Liverpool turning out incredible WipEout games every few years that never have stellar sales, but as an independent company I'd imagine they'd be long gone by now - alongside all the other British indie game devs beside Codemasters who managed to go under this generation.

Just stuff like that is why I like Sony, and why it's disappointing.  Plus, I'd say their first-party roster isn't even that big really - probably the same size as Nintendo's EAD studios, and potentially a lot less than all these brand new studios Microsoft have opened.

The GT comment intrigued me. It is examples like that, Sony not giving a timetable to their devs, eating up yearly salaries, making a game that doesnt justify the 3-5 year dev cycle (not referring to any PS3 IP in particular). You said the Forza comment like its a bad thing......2 years is a decent dev cycle, and Forza quality is always 90+ caliber. Its all about having a realistic timetable and the people to get the job done. 

I cant imagine Halo 4 releasing in January 2013 because it isnt ready yet. MS has a timetable and they make sure it is ready. 343 will crunch if they have to as long as they have to so the game is out on time but also 100% done. On top of that we learn that Last of Us isnt making a 2012 appearance, nor GOW:A. Sony could learn a thing or two from MS on time management. 

Making the minority happy at the expense of the entire business is bad business. And as for your last comment, MS still has a fraction of Sonys studious. Most of MS new ones are dedicated to XBLA and kinect. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

But on topic....Sony only worth 13 billion?????

I never thought it was truly that bad until I saw that number.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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Twisted Metal was in development for 3 years, which means they had to pay 35 developers for 3 years for it. The average programmer makes 55k per year.

Let's do the math.

55k x 35 x 3 = 5.7 million USD for the staff.

+ marketing

+ distribution

+ technical equipment

+ Lots of other stuff like rent, taxes, travel etc

--> At best it just broke even.

Now you do the same thing with Starhawk, Playstation Move Heroes, Motorstorm Apocalypse, Socom and a couple of others.

That is the reason why the PS3 is not as profitable as Sony hoped. The reasons for the situation whole Sony is in are different. One is that they are not innovative at all.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

Kresnik said:
kain_kusanagi said:


Idk, I feel like Sony is a lot more leniant with their studios than any other publisher would be, and that's worked out really well for me this gen - nearly all my favourite games have been PS3 exclusives, and they've generally all been of a really high calibre.

Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps they do push their studios as hard as Activision/EA, but it certainly never appears that way to me.  I mean, they let Polyphony work at their own pace on Gran Turismo - can you imagine Polyphony working with anyone else, say Microsoft, and having to release a new Forza game every 2 years?

There's other stuff too.  They put up with Studio Liverpool turning out incredible WipEout games every few years that never have stellar sales, but as an independent company I'd imagine they'd be long gone by now - alongside all the other British indie game devs beside Codemasters who managed to go under this generation.

Just stuff like that is why I like Sony, and why it's disappointing.  Plus, I'd say their first-party roster isn't even that big really - probably the same size as Nintendo's EAD studios, and potentially a lot less than all these brand new studios Microsoft have opened.


You're not... just look at Team ICO. Their highest selling game sold only about a 1 Mill an yet SONY's allowed them way more time than they should have gotten with the Last Guardian. They really want those games to be quality. I think the only Publisher out there that's more lenient might be Rockstar/Take2.



4 ≈ One

Capulous said:
Nem said:
Here we go again.

If PSN was what was breaking the bank accont they would've have started charging long ago. Seriously, stop believing the crap microsoft feeds you to rape your wallet. Microsoft doesnt want PSN to be free because that gives SONY an advantage over them, and their too greedy to make it free.

Do you see anyone else charging for the use of their online network? Does nintendo do it? steam? blizzard? anyone? No. Dont you think that is a mighty coincidence? Seriously, stop beeing manipulated by microsoft and its payroll analysts...

I am actually curious on how you came up with this stuff. What exactly is MS feeding people about LIVE to rape our wallets? How are they manipulating us? If these companies are not here to make money, exactly what are they here for?

So, if i make a company will you give me millions of dollars if i tell you i got toilet paper you really need to have and its so good you need to pay a monthly fee for it.

This is where i mean the manipulation is. You are so used to it you dont even question it. You think a company that charges for something is entitled to charge as much as they want for it.  Microsoft convinced you that you're getting something that is worth your money, but in fact, it isnt. The costs of mantaining servers was high in the nineties but nowadays its minimal with the leap in technology. Check NCsofts financial breakdown and you will see that server maintenance costs are almost non-existant in the whole picture. You are beeing fooled and you're showing you like beeing fooled and microsoft is taking your money laughing.

If the costs to mantain the servers were so high, why would microsoft add all those video (sports, videos, demos, etc) services. Obviously they would not be able to afford it and they wouldnt be making money...

Learn this once and for all: Microsoft is taking your money cause you're letting them. The service costs are not worth the money you are paying. Wich is why no other company is so arrogant or feels the need to charge for it.



Nem said:
Capulous said:
Nem said:
Here we go again.

If PSN was what was breaking the bank accont they would've have started charging long ago. Seriously, stop believing the crap microsoft feeds you to rape your wallet. Microsoft doesnt want PSN to be free because that gives SONY an advantage over them, and their too greedy to make it free.

Do you see anyone else charging for the use of their online network? Does nintendo do it? steam? blizzard? anyone? No. Dont you think that is a mighty coincidence? Seriously, stop beeing manipulated by microsoft and its payroll analysts...

I am actually curious on how you came up with this stuff. What exactly is MS feeding people about LIVE to rape our wallets? How are they manipulating us? If these companies are not here to make money, exactly what are they here for?

So, if i make a company will you give me millions of dollars if i tell you i got toilet paper you really need to have and its so good you need to pay a monthly fee for it.

This is where i mean the manipulation is. You are so used to it you dont even question it. You think a company that charges for something is entitled to charge as much as they want for it.  Microsoft convinced you that you're getting something that is worth your money, but in fact, it isnt. The costs of mantaining servers was high in the nineties but nowadays its minimal with the leap in technology. Check NCsofts financial breakdown and you will see that server maintenance costs are almost non-existant in the whole picture. You are beeing fooled and you're showing you like beeing fooled and microsoft is taking your money laughing.

If the costs to mantain the servers were so high, why would microsoft add all those video (sports, videos, demos, etc) services. Obviously they would not be able to afford it and they wouldnt be making money...

Learn this once and for all: Microsoft is taking your money cause you're letting them. The service costs are not worth the money you are paying. Wich is why no other company is so arrogant or feels the need to charge for it.

Lol, you really do believe what you are saying huh? It is fine. Everyone has their opinion.



Dgc1808 said:
Kresnik said:
kain_kusanagi said:


Idk, I feel like Sony is a lot more leniant with their studios than any other publisher would be, and that's worked out really well for me this gen - nearly all my favourite games have been PS3 exclusives, and they've generally all been of a really high calibre.

Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps they do push their studios as hard as Activision/EA, but it certainly never appears that way to me.  I mean, they let Polyphony work at their own pace on Gran Turismo - can you imagine Polyphony working with anyone else, say Microsoft, and having to release a new Forza game every 2 years?

There's other stuff too.  They put up with Studio Liverpool turning out incredible WipEout games every few years that never have stellar sales, but as an independent company I'd imagine they'd be long gone by now - alongside all the other British indie game devs beside Codemasters who managed to go under this generation.

Just stuff like that is why I like Sony, and why it's disappointing.  Plus, I'd say their first-party roster isn't even that big really - probably the same size as Nintendo's EAD studios, and potentially a lot less than all these brand new studios Microsoft have opened.


You're not... just look at Team ICO. Their highest selling game sold only about a 1 Mill an yet SONY's allowed them way more time than they should have gotten with the Last Guardian. They really want those games to be quality. I think the only Publisher out there that's more lenient might be Rockstar/Take2.

The Last Guardian is in development hell and may still get canceled or at best pushed over the PS4 like Ico moved from PSX to PS2. That's not a good thing. Sony doesn't sit on projects waiting for them to cook. Last Guardian was mismanaged and the entire company will suffer for it. We might even see Team Ico dismantled if it ends up costing Sony too much money.

Look, Ico is my favorite PS2 game, but Team Ico today is an example of what's wrong with Sony not what's right. I agree Sony has produced some very creative games, but so has Nintendo, Microsoft, and many other developers. Buying up devs and then making no money off them is not helping Sony get back in to the black. They need to consolidate, sell off stuff, cut their losses, and restructure with a business model more like Microsoft. Instead of buying every developer they see and losing money on the exclusives they make Sony needs to produce a few killer games a year and let 3rd parties fill in the rest.