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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bitterness in the Wii fandom?

SuperAdrianK on 17 January 2010
Arius Dion said:
SuperAdrianK said:
Johann said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
theprof00 said:

famousringo said:
Let me tell youa story of two delis, located across the street from each other. The Wii Deli specializes in club sandwiches, and the HD Deli makes great big deluxe submarine sandwiches.

Threepee, a sandwich maker working at HD Deli, is having a hard time making ends meet. He makes a mean submarine sandwich, but there just aren't always enough people hungry for a submarine sandwich to pay the bills.

Threepee looks across the street, and sees people lined up to get into Wii Deli. Seeing dollar signs, Threepee walks across the street and asks the proprietor if he could use another sandwich maker. The propietor agrees, noting that he's having trouble meeting demand and customers like variety.

So Threepee starts selling sandwiches, only he can't afford to buy all the ingredients that he puts into his submarine sandwiches. That should be okay, because if these people wanted a submarine sandwich, they'd be across the street anyway. He doesn't want to compete with the propietor's club sandwiches, because he thinks people will just turn up their nose and buy from him. So Threepee makes cheese sandwiches: Just a couple pieces of Wonderbread with a slice of processed cheese in the middle.

At first, things go well. Customers are tired of waiting in line for club sandwiches, so they try a cheese sandwich for a little variety. Threepee thinks this is great, and starts making more and more cheese sandwiches.

But the customers aren't enthused. Where's the tomato? The turkey? It's a little unsatisfying. So they go back to waiting in line for club sandwiches.

Threepee's response to this development is anger. He's spent a lot of money on Wonderbread and processed cheese. Rather than trying to make club sandwiches, or coming up with a sandwich that's different, but just as satisfying, Threepee angrily blames the customers of the Wii Deli for not buying his sandwiches. He tells them that he thinks they're ignorant people who don't even like sandwiches and storms out of the deli.

Now tell me, do the customers of the Wii Deli have any reason to find Threepee annoying?

Except that grilled cheese is delicious, and when he throws in some chicken or tuna or tomato, people say "whatever, it's not a wiideli club sandwich". So, he tries making some wiideli sandwiches after thorough testing to suit the townspeople's tastes. So, he makes 3 new sandiwches and a lot of people buy them. He tries making some more new ones and people like them, but he only makes a few cents on every sandwich. But that's ok, he has established a brand and still has his 3 sandwiches. The next month, wiideli starts a new promotion: "Re-introducing the original sandwich". Threepee's sales drop into the toilet. Threepee looks at the situation and says "fine, I'll just sell exactly what they were just selling a month ago". Except nobody buys them.

Frustrated, he starts looking at his options. He then realizes that they live on an island in the pacific, and there are only 10 possible ingredients located there. He remembers that he already tried all the other combinations and summizes that he should try just putting more of each ingredient in each sandwich. So, he goes to his distributor and they tell him, "sorry, nobody is allowed to exceed the allowed amount. Sandwiches cannot exceed a certain weight, and you are already pushing the limits". So, threepee decides to move to the mainland. Even on the boat, the club sandwiches are three times bigger and are made from a selection of 50 ingredients. Completely exhausted, he wonders why he moved to the island in the first place.

Threepee moves back to the mainland and works for the big submarine sandwich empire, takes out a loan to buy 100 new ingredients and introduces his biggest sandwich yet, with many Lairs and Lairs of meats and cheeses, and even adds some expensive rare giant enemy crabmeat.  When he releases his new sandwich, he invites all the food critics to come try it out, and lets them now that there's a stupid island out there full of morons who wouldn't know good sandwiches if they crawled up their ass, died, and blamed Wii Fit.

Threepee's sandwich tastes like shit, costs too much, and makes one of the food critics vomit.  Another critic says "Hey aren't you that cheese sandwich moron who said we don't know what good sandwiches are?"  Sandwich-goers of all creeds abandon him.  Threepee is now homeless.  And as he wanders the street looking for crumbs, he can look off into the Pacific, and see a great island building a glorious tower into the heavens, with new kinds of sandwiches that don't even need bread!  Some are open-faced, and some use lettuce on the outside, a crazy insult to the sandwiches of the oldschool!  But since everybody is so fat from all those giant submarine sandwiches, the Island introduces the Atkins Diet, and lettuce sandwiches take over the world.

This story needs to keep going. It's the most entertaining part of the whole thread.

 

yes, I want to see what happens after the lettuce sandwich take over the world

 

btw: how many niche titles sold over a million on ps3/xbox360/pc since not one niche title sold a million on the wii... can't I use the same arguement against the ps3/xbox360/pc, of course thats unless you prove me wrong . (btw, the people in here are saying blockbuster 3 parties don't sell on the wii... what titles may you be talking about?)

Monster Hunter 3

I thought monster hunter 3 wasn't a niche title and is known by many people in japan... and is a established franchise... in japan




              

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Arius Dion on 17 January 2010
SuperAdrianK said:
Arius Dion said:
SuperAdrianK said:
Johann said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
theprof00 said:

famousringo said:
Let me tell youa story of two delis, located across the street from each other. The Wii Deli specializes in club sandwiches, and the HD Deli makes great big deluxe submarine sandwiches.

Threepee, a sandwich maker working at HD Deli, is having a hard time making ends meet. He makes a mean submarine sandwich, but there just aren't always enough people hungry for a submarine sandwich to pay the bills.

Threepee looks across the street, and sees people lined up to get into Wii Deli. Seeing dollar signs, Threepee walks across the street and asks the proprietor if he could use another sandwich maker. The propietor agrees, noting that he's having trouble meeting demand and customers like variety.

So Threepee starts selling sandwiches, only he can't afford to buy all the ingredients that he puts into his submarine sandwiches. That should be okay, because if these people wanted a submarine sandwich, they'd be across the street anyway. He doesn't want to compete with the propietor's club sandwiches, because he thinks people will just turn up their nose and buy from him. So Threepee makes cheese sandwiches: Just a couple pieces of Wonderbread with a slice of processed cheese in the middle.

At first, things go well. Customers are tired of waiting in line for club sandwiches, so they try a cheese sandwich for a little variety. Threepee thinks this is great, and starts making more and more cheese sandwiches.

But the customers aren't enthused. Where's the tomato? The turkey? It's a little unsatisfying. So they go back to waiting in line for club sandwiches.

Threepee's response to this development is anger. He's spent a lot of money on Wonderbread and processed cheese. Rather than trying to make club sandwiches, or coming up with a sandwich that's different, but just as satisfying, Threepee angrily blames the customers of the Wii Deli for not buying his sandwiches. He tells them that he thinks they're ignorant people who don't even like sandwiches and storms out of the deli.

Now tell me, do the customers of the Wii Deli have any reason to find Threepee annoying?

Except that grilled cheese is delicious, and when he throws in some chicken or tuna or tomato, people say "whatever, it's not a wiideli club sandwich". So, he tries making some wiideli sandwiches after thorough testing to suit the townspeople's tastes. So, he makes 3 new sandiwches and a lot of people buy them. He tries making some more new ones and people like them, but he only makes a few cents on every sandwich. But that's ok, he has established a brand and still has his 3 sandwiches. The next month, wiideli starts a new promotion: "Re-introducing the original sandwich". Threepee's sales drop into the toilet. Threepee looks at the situation and says "fine, I'll just sell exactly what they were just selling a month ago". Except nobody buys them.

Frustrated, he starts looking at his options. He then realizes that they live on an island in the pacific, and there are only 10 possible ingredients located there. He remembers that he already tried all the other combinations and summizes that he should try just putting more of each ingredient in each sandwich. So, he goes to his distributor and they tell him, "sorry, nobody is allowed to exceed the allowed amount. Sandwiches cannot exceed a certain weight, and you are already pushing the limits". So, threepee decides to move to the mainland. Even on the boat, the club sandwiches are three times bigger and are made from a selection of 50 ingredients. Completely exhausted, he wonders why he moved to the island in the first place.

Threepee moves back to the mainland and works for the big submarine sandwich empire, takes out a loan to buy 100 new ingredients and introduces his biggest sandwich yet, with many Lairs and Lairs of meats and cheeses, and even adds some expensive rare giant enemy crabmeat.  When he releases his new sandwich, he invites all the food critics to come try it out, and lets them now that there's a stupid island out there full of morons who wouldn't know good sandwiches if they crawled up their ass, died, and blamed Wii Fit.

Threepee's sandwich tastes like shit, costs too much, and makes one of the food critics vomit.  Another critic says "Hey aren't you that cheese sandwich moron who said we don't know what good sandwiches are?"  Sandwich-goers of all creeds abandon him.  Threepee is now homeless.  And as he wanders the street looking for crumbs, he can look off into the Pacific, and see a great island building a glorious tower into the heavens, with new kinds of sandwiches that don't even need bread!  Some are open-faced, and some use lettuce on the outside, a crazy insult to the sandwiches of the oldschool!  But since everybody is so fat from all those giant submarine sandwiches, the Island introduces the Atkins Diet, and lettuce sandwiches take over the world.

This story needs to keep going. It's the most entertaining part of the whole thread.

 

yes, I want to see what happens after the lettuce sandwich take over the world

 

btw: how many niche titles sold over a million on ps3/xbox360/pc since not one niche title sold a million on the wii... can't I use the same arguement against the ps3/xbox360/pc, of course thats unless you prove me wrong . (btw, the people in here are saying blockbuster 3 parties don't sell on the wii... what titles may you be talking about?)

Monster Hunter 3

I thought monster hunter 3 wasn't a niche title and is known by many people in japan... and is a established franchise... in japan

LoL. Yes, I was being sarcastic, my friend..Though you wouldn't have to look far to find those who STILL consider MH3 a flop or as they try to put it a "relative flop" "flop considering userbase" etc.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

Carl on 17 January 2010
theRepublic said:
Carl2291 said:

Sales of over a million are good. I never said it wasn't good.

What i was picking at, was how many titles there are and how many sales they have gained combined...

Should i get the biggest 3rd party core titles from PS3 and 360 to show you the sales, and give another reason why they should/are staying on those consoles?

No, you should get me the list of big, core third party titles that performed badly.  You said the audience doesn't like them, prove it.

While you are at it, you should probably take a look at this too.

Demotruk said:
Carl2291 said:

You do realise that those FIVE games you just gave me ammount to total sales of just over SIX Million?

They also amount to two two-year-late ports, two unarcadey rail shooters and a title that's released only in Japan and has outsold every HD game bar one.

Would all depend on how you defne "big". But anyway...

That's the whole point of what im saying. Why would the 3rd parties bother to make big huge blockbuster games for Wii, when party games are outselling certain efforts by 2:1 (in the lowest case) and making millions upon millions... When those said blockbusters are selling so well on PS360?

I'll give you an example, using a big hit game you gave me.
Call of Duty: World at War (launched day and date with PS360 versions) - 1.40M (PS3 - 3.81 360 - 6.15)
Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports - 3.54M, 2.17M, 2.14M

Now, what impression do you think that has on developers?



                            

Ail on 17 January 2010
Wyrdness said:
Carl2291 said:
Wyrdness said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
guiduc said:
BladeOfGod said:
they are just jealous cuz they're not getting Batman AA, RE5, DMC4, Bioshock, MW2 ( maybe in 2014 ), AC 2, Bayonetta and lots of other awesome 3rd party games

Could you stop trolling here?

If you were in that situation, maybe you too you would be angry. We just don't get the games we deserve. We can only count on Nintendo, unfortunately.

That's the thing though. Why do you automatically "deserve" those games? Because of the Wii sales?

The bigger install base having the best 3rd party support has always been the case, why is it suddenly a problem now that Nintendo is back on top? It's a little thing called 'common sense'; a bigger install base means more potential sales.

The bigger install base isn't seen as the Wii, it is seen as the (as the industry puts it)... "HD Twins". Which have a greater market share than Wii, and also share a whole bunch of the same "core" fanbase.

You're making the mistake in not taking into account multiple console ownership. Even ignoring that, like others have stated the Wii could have the same market share as the PS2 and would still have the same support. We have already pointed out the many flaws in your argument, so if you do not wish to revise it I don't see a point in continuing this argument.

Why should i take into account "multiple console ownership"? The fact is, HD has a greater marketshare than Wii. That's why the majority of games releasing on the 2 consoles are shared.

No it wouldn't stay the same, because if it had that marketshare it would have the mix of all fans/gamers... Just like PS2 did. Developers would HAVE to support it.

What flaws?...

You should take it into account because numerous people own both 360/PS3s so in effect your logic is flawed, if the are 30m 360s sold and 20m PS3s it doesn't mean that the are 50m potential customers which is why your attempt to group them together to mask market share is coming off a bit silly.

The fact is there are more PS3's and 360's out there than Wii's. There is a bigger PS360 marketshare than there is Wii marketshare. Fact.

Wrong the fact is market share is done by individual consoles because if the are 60m PS3s and 360s out there and 10m own both consoles it doesn't mean the are 60m customers for the HD twins as you put and thus the market share becomes lower then the Wii hence the flaw in your argument fact.

 

Where's the data to back up your facts ?

Besides the fact that I could use the same reasonning and say some Wii owners are HD owners too and those don't care which platform the third party support...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

forest-spirit on 17 January 2010

This thread irritates me in the way "PS3 fanboys are the worst"-topics do.
A minority of the fanbase are very vocal and thus some people see the whole fanbase as idiots.


You know what, I'm sick and tired of this, I am just a gamer who happens to prefer Wii but I'm not some fanatic who praise Nintendo everytime they open their mouth. I don't lick Reggie's toes.

Some Nintendo fans really are annoying in how they drop all logic and sense in defending their God and take every bit of criticism against Nintendo as a terrorist attack. I hate it, not only is it annoying to see these people use the company I love just to defend their own egos, but it makes some people think all Nintendo fans behave like that, and we get "Nintendo fans are ignorant", "Nintendo fans are blind", etc.
(This can be applied to the fanbase of Microsoft and Sony as well.)

Something else I'm tired of hearing is that I'm ignorant or an idiot for being satisfied with the library my console of choice have. I'm perfectly fine with the games I can get for the Wii, and I'll probably not have enough time to play through all the games I want before this gen is over. That's just me, it's because of my taste in gaming.
Everyone will not be satisfied in owning only Wii though, I'm fully aware of that, I wouldn't be satisfied in owning only a 360 or a PS3 because I want to play Metroid and Zelda, but again, it's because of my taste and I won't hate on other people for not sharing my opinion. That would just make me look like an idiot and show how limited I am.

End of meltdown. Now I'm gonna have some bitter cake.



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Wyrdness on 17 January 2010
Ail said:
Wyrdness said:
Carl2291 said:
Wyrdness said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
guiduc said:
BladeOfGod said:
they are just jealous cuz they're not getting Batman AA, RE5, DMC4, Bioshock, MW2 ( maybe in 2014 ), AC 2, Bayonetta and lots of other awesome 3rd party games

Could you stop trolling here?

If you were in that situation, maybe you too you would be angry. We just don't get the games we deserve. We can only count on Nintendo, unfortunately.

That's the thing though. Why do you automatically "deserve" those games? Because of the Wii sales?

The bigger install base having the best 3rd party support has always been the case, why is it suddenly a problem now that Nintendo is back on top? It's a little thing called 'common sense'; a bigger install base means more potential sales.

The bigger install base isn't seen as the Wii, it is seen as the (as the industry puts it)... "HD Twins". Which have a greater market share than Wii, and also share a whole bunch of the same "core" fanbase.

You're making the mistake in not taking into account multiple console ownership. Even ignoring that, like others have stated the Wii could have the same market share as the PS2 and would still have the same support. We have already pointed out the many flaws in your argument, so if you do not wish to revise it I don't see a point in continuing this argument.

Why should i take into account "multiple console ownership"? The fact is, HD has a greater marketshare than Wii. That's why the majority of games releasing on the 2 consoles are shared.

No it wouldn't stay the same, because if it had that marketshare it would have the mix of all fans/gamers... Just like PS2 did. Developers would HAVE to support it.

What flaws?...

You should take it into account because numerous people own both 360/PS3s so in effect your logic is flawed, if the are 30m 360s sold and 20m PS3s it doesn't mean that the are 50m potential customers which is why your attempt to group them together to mask market share is coming off a bit silly.

The fact is there are more PS3's and 360's out there than Wii's. There is a bigger PS360 marketshare than there is Wii marketshare. Fact.

Wrong the fact is market share is done by individual consoles because if the are 60m PS3s and 360s out there and 10m own both consoles it doesn't mean the are 60m customers for the HD twins as you put and thus the market share becomes lower then the Wii hence the flaw in your argument fact.

 

Where's the data to back up your facts ?

Besides the fact that I could use the same reasonning and say some Wii owners are HD owners too and those don't care which platform the third party support...


You clearly haven't read through the thread, he used combine sales of PS3 and 360s to suggest that the are more users with in this group and as someone pointed out it's flawed using two consoles for market share as many people own multiple and I gave an example of why the combined sales are flawed and why it can only be only be done individually, try reading through next time.

Carl on 17 January 2010
Demotruk said:
Carl2291 said:

2 year late ports, yes. But the highest quality games of there genre also.

Unarcadey rail shooters? Call of Duty... "Unarcedey rail shooter"? And you think you deserve these games?

I thought you were referring to the other Resident Evil games, I made a mistake. One that was of little consequence but you capitalized on it for a bit of ad hominem anyway.

Do you think the Wii Call of Duty's (forgetting 3 since it sucked generally, it's not like it sold great on PS3) compare in the sort of effort or even features that were put into the HD versions? One of them is a gimped port, the other is a two year late gimped port. Even if it weren't gimped, the game was designed to be played on the HD consoles and suffers on Wii for it.

It's not possible to give them the features that were on the HD versions. We both know this. As for effort, the game was good enough... It's better than The Conduit, which was a hyped up exclusive.



                            

theRepublic on 17 January 2010
Carl2291 said:

Would all depend on how you defne "big". But anyway...

That's the whole point of what im saying. Why would the 3rd parties bother to make big huge blockbuster games for Wii, when party games are outselling certain efforts by 2:1 (in the lowest case) and making millions upon millions... When those said blockbusters are selling so well on PS360?

I'll give you an example, using a big hit game you gave me.
Call of Duty: World at War (launched day and date with PS360 versions) - 1.40M (PS3 - 3.81 360 - 6.15)
Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports - 3.54M, 2.17M, 2.14M

Now, what impression do you think that has on developers?

Do you notice how all those minigame collections you used were all released early in the Wii's life and their sequels have performed poorly?  It is clear that consumers do not want any more of those.

This CoD: World at War thing has been done to death, but sure, let's go over it again.  CoD 3 on the Wii outsold the PS3 version.  The next year, the PS3 and 360 get the break-out hit CoD 4: Modern Warfare, while the Wii gets nothing.  Then, the following year, all the consoles get W@W.  The difference here is that W@W got to ride on the success of MW on the PS3 and 360, but not on the Wii.  Then of course there is the removed features on the Wii version of W@W that make it less desirable.

It is just more of what we have seen for the past three generations.  Third party publishers treat Nintendo consoles like a red-headed step-child, and expect the same results as they get on other consoles.  It is ridiculous.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
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Carl on 17 January 2010
Wyrdness said:
Carl2291 said:
Wyrdness said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
Innervate said:
Carl2291 said:
guiduc said:
BladeOfGod said:
they are just jealous cuz they're not getting Batman AA, RE5, DMC4, Bioshock, MW2 ( maybe in 2014 ), AC 2, Bayonetta and lots of other awesome 3rd party games

Could you stop trolling here?

If you were in that situation, maybe you too you would be angry. We just don't get the games we deserve. We can only count on Nintendo, unfortunately.

That's the thing though. Why do you automatically "deserve" those games? Because of the Wii sales?

The bigger install base having the best 3rd party support has always been the case, why is it suddenly a problem now that Nintendo is back on top? It's a little thing called 'common sense'; a bigger install base means more potential sales.

The bigger install base isn't seen as the Wii, it is seen as the (as the industry puts it)... "HD Twins". Which have a greater market share than Wii, and also share a whole bunch of the same "core" fanbase.

You're making the mistake in not taking into account multiple console ownership. Even ignoring that, like others have stated the Wii could have the same market share as the PS2 and would still have the same support. We have already pointed out the many flaws in your argument, so if you do not wish to revise it I don't see a point in continuing this argument.

Why should i take into account "multiple console ownership"? The fact is, HD has a greater marketshare than Wii. That's why the majority of games releasing on the 2 consoles are shared.

No it wouldn't stay the same, because if it had that marketshare it would have the mix of all fans/gamers... Just like PS2 did. Developers would HAVE to support it.

What flaws?...

You should take it into account because numerous people own both 360/PS3s so in effect your logic is flawed, if the are 30m 360s sold and 20m PS3s it doesn't mean that the are 50m potential customers which is why your attempt to group them together to mask market share is coming off a bit silly.

The fact is there are more PS3's and 360's out there than Wii's. There is a bigger PS360 marketshare than there is Wii marketshare. Fact.

Wrong the fact is market share is done by individual consoles because if the are 60m PS3s and 360s out there and 10m own both consoles it doesn't mean the are 60m customers for the HD twins as you put and thus the market share becomes lower then the Wii hence the flaw in your argument fact.

Doing that would be pointless, as there is no way to tell how mnay people have both. It could also be argued that the marketshare is severely flawed and skewed because of multiple console owners, but we don't see anyone ever bringing that one up do we? That's why im saying there are more PS3's and 360's out there than there are Wii's. Developers don't see how many people own the said console, they see how many consoles are out there.



                            

Demotruk on 17 January 2010
Carl2291 said:

Would all depend on how you defne "big". But anyway...

That's the whole point of what im saying. Why would the 3rd parties bother to make big huge blockbuster games for Wii, when party games are outselling certain efforts by 2:1 (in the lowest case) and making millions upon millions... When those said blockbusters are selling so well on PS360?

I'll give you an example, using a big hit game you gave me.
Call of Duty: World at War (launched day and date with PS360 versions) - 1.40M (PS3 - 3.81 360 - 6.15)
Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports - 3.54M, 2.17M, 2.14M

Now, what impression do you think that has on developers?

Do you really believe that there is a fair comparison to be made between CoD 5 on PS360 versus the game with the same name on Wii?

 

1) It's gimped. Features are removed such as local multiplayer and many online features.

2) Much of it's success was due to CoD4, which did not exist on Wii. The only predecessor on Wii was CoD3, which sucked but managed to sell to some starving core gamers. People who loved 4 would naturally be disposed to buying what was marketed as it's direct sequel on the same consoles they played 4.

3) It's designed for the HD consoles. The scale of the game, the battlefields etc. was made with the HD game in mind. In order for the Wii to handle this scale, it's graphics had to be scaled down even lower than what the Wii could be expected to handle for a game designed for it. It's for the same reason to a greater degree that you would not expect the DS version to sell as well (or would you..?).



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.