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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Forgotten HD 3rd Party Bombs

Boneitis on 16 January 2010
Gab said:
Avatar: the game is still selling.

More importantly, when was that considered a core game?



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johnsobas on 16 January 2010
Boneitis said:
Gab said:
Avatar: the game is still selling.

More importantly, when was that considered a core game?

i don't think that was the point of the thread.  Casual games can bomb on HD consoles and hardcore games can bomb on wii consoles, vice versa and everything in between.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

Gab on 16 January 2010
Boneitis said:
Gab said:
Avatar: the game is still selling.

More importantly, when was that considered a core game?

This thread is not about core games as far as I understand, but HD 3rd party games.



Gab on 16 January 2010
johnsobas said:
Kantor said:
johnsobas said:
Kantor said:
It's worth pointing out that, with the possible exception of Condemned and its sequel, the majority of those games are average at best.

HD is not a formula for success, not in the slightest. It's just circumstance, really. Because Wii development is cheaper, developers are willing to take more risks and occasionally fall flat on their faces. Thanks to the high development cost of an HD game, a dev will generally only make one if they know that the game is going to sell well, and has a shot at breaking a million.

most of the games that didn't sell big numbers on wii are either niche or suck.  I mean, that's the main reason they were put on wii in the first place.  3D dot heroes is a good example of a game that wasn't gonna succeed anyway, there's no need to blame the system for the game's problems.  There is a huge list of games that bombed on PS2, it happens all the time.

3D Dot Heroes isn't even out in the West yet. Give it a chance.

the game was obviously made with the Japanese market in mind. 

I disagree, it is a Zelda-tribute, and Zelda is much more popular in the west.



Boneitis on 16 January 2010
johnsobas said:
Kantor said:
johnsobas said:
Kantor said:
It's worth pointing out that, with the possible exception of Condemned and its sequel, the majority of those games are average at best.

HD is not a formula for success, not in the slightest. It's just circumstance, really. Because Wii development is cheaper, developers are willing to take more risks and occasionally fall flat on their faces. Thanks to the high development cost of an HD game, a dev will generally only make one if they know that the game is going to sell well, and has a shot at breaking a million.

most of the games that didn't sell big numbers on wii are either niche or suck.  I mean, that's the main reason they were put on wii in the first place.  3D dot heroes is a good example of a game that wasn't gonna succeed anyway, there's no need to blame the system for the game's problems.  There is a huge list of games that bombed on PS2, it happens all the time.

3D Dot Heroes isn't even out in the West yet. Give it a chance.

the game was obviously made with the Japanese market in mind. 

I disagree. Retro seems to be bigger in the West.

I guarantee it would have been a success as a budget title on Live, PSN, and Steam.



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darthdevidem01 on 16 January 2010

Good, most of them deserved to fail

so they did

then you do have big niche hits like Valkyria Chronicles, Lost Oddesy, Demon Souls



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

Barozi on 16 January 2010
naznatips said:

I'm a big HD gamer. More than most people on this site who don't even own non-HD consoles. That said, the recent attitude gamers and a few pubs seem to have that implies HD is a garaunteed formula for success completely confounds me. So here are some games to remind you of what can happen in HD development, specifically picked from 2 publishers who've been very vocal on the subject recently.

Note: it's been said an HD game needs well over .8 million units to break even on an average core game, implying that even 1 million units would only yeild a marginal profit. sourceThe point is this: Games bomb. Mostly bad games, some really good games, but regardless they bomb on all platforms, and it always hurts developers when it happens. This is not a defense of the Wii, or an attack on HD systems. It's a defense of reality.I don't beleive there is any evidence that the Wii is a more viable or stable market solution than HD. Every game should be taken as an individual, with individual chances of success or failure almost completely exclusive of the platform that game is on (aside from obviously needing a certain base amount of potential consumers).

I never heard anyone saying that bad games can't bomb on HD systems lol.

In fact it's more likely that they do.

 

Important point is that you leave the PC completely out. That's fine as far as you only want to compare sales, but many projects were developed on the PC, because the games were meant for the PC in the first place.

Furthermore you take a source from 2009 and refer to almost launch games, where the budget was considerably smaller than now.

naznatips said:

Ubisoft:

Enchanted Arms - .38 million units
Vlevet Assassin - .09 million units
Call of Juarez (original, not Bound in Blood) - .25 million units Late port of a 2006 PC game. Inaccurate Others data.
James Cameron's Ego, er.. Avatar - .57 million units no success (as expected) but still selling.
Naruto: Rise of a Ninja - .32 million units
Beowulf: The Game - .5 million units
HAWX - .84 million units over 800k and still selling
Naruto: The Broken Bond - .55 million units Used many recycled mechanics/graphics/sounds etc. First game was probably a bomb, not this one

 

Sega:

Sonic the Hedgehog - .97 million units (note almost half of these were at a price of $40 or less, i.e. no profit/no loss sales)
Virtua Fighter 5 - .73 million units 3 years old game. 500k sales came from a version without online support (lower dev costs)
Universe at War - .07 million units
Phantasy Stary Universe - .10 million units
Virtua Tennis 2009 - .51 million units Basically a re-release of Virtua Tennis 3
Golden Axe: Beast Rider - .22 million units
The Club - .39 million units
Armored Core 4 - .42 million units They're still making new games, so it can't be that bad.
Armored Core For Answer - .25 million units
Viking: Battle for Asgard - .69 million units
Condemned - .47 million units launch game. Inaccurate Others data

Condemned 2 - .79 million units



jammy2211 on 16 January 2010

The point was never whether or not HD games could bomb, we all know they did. The point has been whether the Wii has a market to support high budget high marketing 'good' efforts from third parties. HD clearly can - as lots of games go flying past 3 million PS360 combined in no time.

Whether the Wii can support most of these games is still up for debate, which has been the point.



nordlead on 16 January 2010

edit: hit the post button by accident, so might as well type something.

 




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naznatips on 16 January 2010

Well since no one seems to disagree with my base point that games can always bomb, regardless of budget/advertising, I'll consider the thread resolved and lock it so as to avoid it turning into a console war like WoW tried to start.