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Forums - Sales Discussion - NPD to stop giving numbers to public?

sinha said:
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Can we blame ourselves for the imminent rise of vg char...? I'm wondering if that banned site has a chance of becoming the place people go for numbers. We see that they are already referenced by various articles and websites. That legitimizes them and, now, with less info, they'll be unchecked. Someone throw up the N'Gai signal cuz he's the only big name that could effectively squash there crap.

It would be funny if vgc becomes big. Why? Well, GAF has this love relationship with sales. That probably attracted ioi. He thought he could actually replicate npd. He was ostracized by gaf, casted out, if you will follow me.
Now, I would argue that our love affair with sales have played a role in all this. We enjoyed leaks for awhile, then someone made a trailer for great lolz. NPD turned the lights out on that party and now, are backing away from an agreement they don't have to adhere to. Our love of numbers and greed pushed away our source and wouldn't it be funny if our love of pure numbers caused the rise of ioi?

I'm kinda interested in how it'll turn out.
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Absolutely hilarious. 


 Its like listening to a crazed conspiracy theorist.

 

A pity they lack the intelligence to actually realize the opportunity they have with this announcement, if they feel VGChartz is inaccurate they should get involved and try and improve it.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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Avinash_Tyagi said:
Remeber NPD extrapolates for about 40% of the market so to say that they are perfectly accurate is false, they are just accepted as being accurate

 NPD actually covered 60-65%. And it might be slightly even higher now, as a couple months ago they added a bevy of new retail sources (some regional chains, Amazon/Newegg.com, etc).

The biggie they dont cover is pretty much just Wal Mart, but they used to cover Wal Mart (and still have that historical data), so they have a lot of insight into Wal Mart.

 

What does VGchartz have? A vague claim to "5-10%" coverage that is completely unverifiable and comes from amateur forum sources of questionable reliability. 

 

I'm totally not buying this "Vgchartz is as accurate as NPD". That's a lot of BS. VG has been undercounting 360 and overcounting PS3 pretty bad even the last few months (when the numbers are supposed to be becoming highly accurate). Who knows how bad they'd be skewing if NPD wasn't coming out to correct them each month, raising 360 sales and lowering PS3, even though still not enough after months of this. Sales could continue to go off on a tangent with no correcting factor.

I do assume ioi will still have a behind the scenes source for NPD numbers though.  

 



sharky said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Remeber NPD extrapolates for about 40% of the market so to say that they are perfectly accurate is false, they are just accepted as being accurate

NPD actually covered 60-65%. And it might be slightly even higher now, as a couple months ago they added a bevy of new retail sources (some regional chains, Amazon/Newegg.com, etc).

The biggie they dont cover is pretty much just Wal Mart, but they used to cover Wal Mart (and still have that historical data), so they have a lot of insight into Wal Mart.

 

What does VGchartz have? A vague claim to "5-10%" coverage that is completely unverifiable and comes from amateur forum sources of questionable reliability.

 

I'm totally not buying this "Vgchartz is as accurate as NPD". That's a lot of BS. VG has been undercounting 360 and overcounting PS3 pretty bad even the last few months (when the numbers are supposed to be becoming highly accurate). Who knows how bad they'd be skewing if NPD wasn't coming out to correct them each month, raising 360 sales and lowering PS3, even though still not enough after months of this. Sales could continue to go off on a tangent with no correcting factor.

I do assume ioi will still have a behind the scenes source for NPD numbers though.

 

You're gonna get bashed for that one but I have to agree when it comes to American data. The people saying that VGchartz is more accurate than NPD are just fooling themselves. VGchartz is great for what it does but there is no way ioi can stand against NPD as is. Maybe down the road, that's what I'm hoping for anyway.

 



Avinash_Tyagi said:
 

A pity they lack the intelligence to actually realize the opportunity they have with this announcement, if they feel VGChartz is inaccurate they should get involved and try and improve it.


 Yep, that's how I knew straight away the Neof*gs was full of crap. Their whole existence is to be as ridiculous as possible. It doesn't even seem that they care about gaming at all, really. The vast majority of posters there are astroturfers and trolls. They actually LOVE having PR people and astroturfers posting propoganda and lies. If you call them out, they ban you. They take pride in banning as many members as possible. And they actually believe that they are the first to break all the news, and they actually believe "the internet" steals their news from them. Talk about delusional.

 

Neof*gs grabbed their ankles for NPD with the quickness. Now they get their reward. I'm lovin' it™.

 

 



It's a conspiracy. That's it. Someone is being paid.

On a serious note I assume that the pullback comes because they are entering the most important quarter of the year and want as many subscribers as possible. Obviously Sony, MS, and Nintendo are already paying customers as are most major publishers... The question is, who will they be signing up? Analysts? Media?

Maybe there is a deeper reason... Maybe they are in the process of increasing subscription costs or are in the process of re-negotiating and don't want alternate sites putting the data out until it is so stale that it can't be used.

VGchartz is popping up more and more in "respected" sites these days and I suspect that does have a small bit to do with it... Keep the data out of competitors hands until all paying customers have paid and the data is too old to use other than for discussion of past trends...



I hate trolls.

Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.

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sharky said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Remeber NPD extrapolates for about 40% of the market so to say that they are perfectly accurate is false, they are just accepted as being accurate

 NPD actually covered 60-65%. And it might be slightly even higher now, as a couple months ago they added a bevy of new retail sources (some regional chains, Amazon/Newegg.com, etc).

The biggie they dont cover is pretty much just Wal Mart, but they used to cover Wal Mart (and still have that historical data), so they have a lot of insight into Wal Mart.

 

What does VGchartz have? A vague claim to "5-10%" coverage that is completely unverifiable and comes from amateur forum sources of questionable reliability. 

 

I'm totally not buying this "Vgchartz is as accurate as NPD". That's a lot of BS. VG has been undercounting 360 and overcounting PS3 pretty bad even the last few months (when the numbers are supposed to be becoming highly accurate). Who knows how bad they'd be skewing if NPD wasn't coming out to correct them each month, raising 360 sales and lowering PS3, even though still not enough after months of this. Sales could continue to go off on a tangent with no correcting factor.

I do assume ioi will still have a behind the scenes source for NPD numbers though.  

 


 Never argued that VGchartz is more accurate however i am pointing out that NPD is far from perfect as well even 60-65% is pretty close to flipping a coin to find out an answer



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

covering 60-65 percent of the market doesn't mean they just take a stab in the dark for the other 35-40 percent ya know...



Edouble24 said:
covering 60-65 percent of the market doesn't mean they just take a stab in the dark for the other 35-40 percent ya know...

 It means they extrapolate based on past data and trends, same as what VGchartz does...so what's your point? 



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

sharky said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Remeber NPD extrapolates for about 40% of the market so to say that they are perfectly accurate is false, they are just accepted as being accurate

NPD actually covered 60-65%. And it might be slightly even higher now, as a couple months ago they added a bevy of new retail sources (some regional chains, Amazon/Newegg.com, etc).

The biggie they dont cover is pretty much just Wal Mart, but they used to cover Wal Mart (and still have that historical data), so they have a lot of insight into Wal Mart.

 

What does VGchartz have? A vague claim to "5-10%" coverage that is completely unverifiable and comes from amateur forum sources of questionable reliability.

 

I'm totally not buying this "Vgchartz is as accurate as NPD". That's a lot of BS. VG has been undercounting 360 and overcounting PS3 pretty bad even the last few months (when the numbers are supposed to be becoming highly accurate). Who knows how bad they'd be skewing if NPD wasn't coming out to correct them each month, raising 360 sales and lowering PS3, even though still not enough after months of this. Sales could continue to go off on a tangent with no correcting factor.

I do assume ioi will still have a behind the scenes source for NPD numbers though.

 


Hate to burst your bubble but I dont' see any threads around here asking folks to report their local walmart's sales data so I'm not sure wth you are talking about with "forum sources".  But I did notice that it is a GAF term which means that you are more than likely a GAF troll who can't stand the idea that VGC actually has legit numbers and come here to stir up shit.  

Your also the one who claimed he could "make up" better numbers so why don't you go make your own site and do just that. We won't miss you. I promise. 



To Each Man, Responsibility

First off, people should stop throwing around the words "conspiracy theory" so lightly without understanding what they mean. A conspiracy is a collusion to commit an illegal act. A conspiracy theory is a theory to explain illegal acts. Simple enough. What NPD is doing is not illegal, therefore there can be no such "conspiracy theory", only plain old theories. So please, stop using the term "conspiracy theory" to ridicule or discredit people's opinions. It only makes YOU look ridiculous.

 

With that said, here are some theories that have been floating in my head:

 

1) NPD is posturing against VGC., either for political or legal purposes, possibly both. By withholding information, thus resulting in further deviation, NPD can then launch a campaign to assault the credibility of VGC. The smear campaign would consist of articles and interviews in major gaming publications, as well as PR, astroturfers, and trolls in the forums. This has been underway at Neof*gs for quite some time.

 

2) NPD is losing credibility and/or business, or has incurred significant expenses in the attempt to upgrade their own tracking methods due to pressure from VGC. They intend to recoup this money or eliminate competition by filing a legal claim against VGC on some grounds. They may try to claim IP infringement, or unfair busniess practices due to informal leaks.

 

3) NPD is getting pressure from retailers (or vice versa) to stop sales data leaks. They may be devising a new system to expose and eliminate leaks.

 

Well, all 3 of these theories are intertwined into one theory, but that's how I see it. (I have an amazing track record by the way, as those who know me can attest to :)

 

No matter how anyone tries to spin it, this is a major victory and milestone for VGC. Atleast in the short term. The stakes are now higher and the pressure will be turned up a notch. Good job guys, but watch your back. The big dogs will be gunning for you now.

 

As Ghandi said, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."