I don't say it should be more like monster hunter, just cut down on the padding.

hsrob said: I'm just glad it's Nintendo handling this game rather than some of you guys. I've heard so many comments about how Zelda needs to be more like this or that, it needs to more accessible, it needs to be harder etc etc. Zelda does not need to be like any other game, Zelda needs to be like Zelda. That's not to say it needs to be exactly like previous games but rather it needs to keep it's own identity. As for difficulty, I didn't mind the difficulty of TP but also I personally wouldn't mind if the new Zelda was a little bit harder.

Zelda can be harder, more accessible, and can be improved in other ways while keeping its own identity. I don't see why asking for such things is that unreasonable, considering past Zelda's used to be like this.

I think one thing that would be helpful in making it more accessible is just toning down the "zelda logic" which is essentially absurd things that you would never think to do, except that you've played a bunch of zelda games and can do it without even thinking.

In spirit tracks for instance, there is a part where you are on a series of islands, and to get to one of them you go to the top of one island and there are a couple of chickens running around some trees, without blinking I pick up a chicken, jump off the ledge and float down to the next island. Who the fuck in their right mind would think "hey, I bet I can just pick up these chickens, and these chickens will give me the ability to glide if I jump off the ledge." It's nonsensical, but completely intuitive for a zelda fan. While watching me play Twlight Princess my wife would be completely puzzled as to how I just knew as soon as I entered a room to light all the torches in a room, or check the walls for weak spots, or what have you and my response would always be "Zelda logic".

The_vagabond7 said: I think one thing that would be helpful in making it more accessible is just toning down the "zelda logic" which is essentially absurd things that you would never think to do, except that you've played a bunch of zelda games and can do it without even thinking. In spirit tracks for instance, there is a part where you are on a series of islands, and to get to one of them you go to the top of one island and there are a couple of chickens running around some trees, without blinking I pick up a chicken, jump off the ledge and float down to the next island. Who the fuck in their right mind would think "hey, I bet I can just pick up these chickens, and these chickens will give me the ability to glide if I jump off the ledge." It's nonsensical, but completely intuitive for a zelda fan. While watching me play Twlight Princess my wife would be completely puzzled as to how I just knew as soon as I entered a room to light all the torches in a room, or check the walls for weak spots, or what have you and my response would always be "Zelda logic".

This is one of the things that strikes me about the 3-D games - they seem to be built round the idea that everyone has played Ocarina of Time, which was the only 3-D game that went out of its way to really try to introduce you to all of these puzzle-solving concepts.

"These torches look like they were lit recently, and still have oil"

Small touches like that

Edit: Well, that's not fair to Twilight Princess. They did give you the lantern and have you light torches.

Zucas said: Masterzack- your zelda collection is legendary. That is an awesome picture. I also agree with hsrob. I'm so glad the fans do not make Zelda games because it would be disastrous. I just leave it up to the geniuses at Nintendo and then I wait to play one of the greatest experiences thereafter. I like to throw out ideas too but let's not get carried away haha. Zelda needs to be its own experience like it has always been and I'm sure the Zelda team will once again give us a wonderful game.

^_^ Thank you!!

Master Zack, your collection makes me look like a 'casual' Zelda fan, unworthy of even posting in this thread.

Khuutra said: The_vagabond7 said: I think one thing that would be helpful in making it more accessible is just toning down the "zelda logic" which is essentially absurd things that you would never think to do, except that you've played a bunch of zelda games and can do it without even thinking. In spirit tracks for instance, there is a part where you are on a series of islands, and to get to one of them you go to the top of one island and there are a couple of chickens running around some trees, without blinking I pick up a chicken, jump off the ledge and float down to the next island. Who the fuck in their right mind would think "hey, I bet I can just pick up these chickens, and these chickens will give me the ability to glide if I jump off the ledge." It's nonsensical, but completely intuitive for a zelda fan. While watching me play Twlight Princess my wife would be completely puzzled as to how I just knew as soon as I entered a room to light all the torches in a room, or check the walls for weak spots, or what have you and my response would always be "Zelda logic". This is one of the things that strikes me about the 3-D games - they seem to be built round the idea that everyone has played Ocarina of Time, which was the only 3-D game that went out of its way to really try to introduce you to all of these puzzle-solving concepts. "These torches look like they were lit recently, and still have oil" Small touches like that Edit: Well, that's not fair to Twilight Princess. They did give you the lantern and have you light torches.

If we lose the zelda logic, we'll be losing the zelda spirit.  It's like a mario bros game where mushrooms don't make you bigger and fire flowers don't gove you fire power.  The franchise needs to change, and I definetly consider MH to be a very good reference for inspiration.  Be this as it may, the meat in Zelda games have always been the dungeons (plus the gameplay and storytelling) which funtion very well on the "Zelda logic" and make the games so unique and memorable.  I feel these principals shouldn't be renounced, even though a change is certainly in order for the franchise.

LordTheNightKnight said: I hope that learning from MH he goes for more action over long dungeon stretches. As in don't give us the water temple puzzles or have us hang on a copter plant for two minutes. And don't have puzzles that force us to go to gamefaqs. You want the expanded audience, never do that.

I've never needed online help to beat a zelda game.I've only needed it to clear all the sidequests.

EL_PATRAS said: Khuutra said: The_vagabond7 said: I think one thing that would be helpful in making it more accessible is just toning down the "zelda logic" which is essentially absurd things that you would never think to do, except that you've played a bunch of zelda games and can do it without even thinking. In spirit tracks for instance, there is a part where you are on a series of islands, and to get to one of them you go to the top of one island and there are a couple of chickens running around some trees, without blinking I pick up a chicken, jump off the ledge and float down to the next island. Who the fuck in their right mind would think "hey, I bet I can just pick up these chickens, and these chickens will give me the ability to glide if I jump off the ledge." It's nonsensical, but completely intuitive for a zelda fan. While watching me play Twlight Princess my wife would be completely puzzled as to how I just knew as soon as I entered a room to light all the torches in a room, or check the walls for weak spots, or what have you and my response would always be "Zelda logic". This is one of the things that strikes me about the 3-D games - they seem to be built round the idea that everyone has played Ocarina of Time, which was the only 3-D game that went out of its way to really try to introduce you to all of these puzzle-solving concepts. "These torches look like they were lit recently, and still have oil" Small touches like that Edit: Well, that's not fair to Twilight Princess. They did give you the lantern and have you light torches. If we lose the zelda logic, we'll be losing the zelda spirit.  It's like a mario bros game where mushrooms don't make you bigger and fire flowers don't gove you fire power.  The franchise needs to change, and I definetly consider MH to be a very good reference for inspiration.  Be this as it may, the meat in Zelda games have always been the dungeons (plus the gameplay and storytelling) which funtion very well on the "Zelda logic" and make the games so unique and memorable.  I feel these principals shouldn't be renounced, even though a change is certainly in order for the franchise.

I don't think he's trying to say that. Just to make it less obtuse, which i kind of agree. They should at least introduce the idea in such a way that it feels like a natural discovery, but one that broaches it well.

Mr Khan said: EL_PATRAS said: Khuutra said: The_vagabond7 said: I think one thing that would be helpful in making it more accessible is just toning down the "zelda logic" which is essentially absurd things that you would never think to do, except that you've played a bunch of zelda games and can do it without even thinking. In spirit tracks for instance, there is a part where you are on a series of islands, and to get to one of them you go to the top of one island and there are a couple of chickens running around some trees, without blinking I pick up a chicken, jump off the ledge and float down to the next island. Who the fuck in their right mind would think "hey, I bet I can just pick up these chickens, and these chickens will give me the ability to glide if I jump off the ledge." It's nonsensical, but completely intuitive for a zelda fan. While watching me play Twlight Princess my wife would be completely puzzled as to how I just knew as soon as I entered a room to light all the torches in a room, or check the walls for weak spots, or what have you and my response would always be "Zelda logic". This is one of the things that strikes me about the 3-D games - they seem to be built round the idea that everyone has played Ocarina of Time, which was the only 3-D game that went out of its way to really try to introduce you to all of these puzzle-solving concepts. "These torches look like they were lit recently, and still have oil" Small touches like that Edit: Well, that's not fair to Twilight Princess. They did give you the lantern and have you light torches. If we lose the zelda logic, we'll be losing the zelda spirit.  It's like a mario bros game where mushrooms don't make you bigger and fire flowers don't gove you fire power.  The franchise needs to change, and I definetly consider MH to be a very good reference for inspiration.  Be this as it may, the meat in Zelda games have always been the dungeons (plus the gameplay and storytelling) which funtion very well on the "Zelda logic" and make the games so unique and memorable.  I feel these principals shouldn't be renounced, even though a change is certainly in order for the franchise. I don't think he's trying to say that. Just to make it less obtuse, which i kind of agree. They should at least introduce the idea in such a way that it feels like a natural discovery, but one that broaches it well.

This.