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Forums - Sales - Japan First Day Sales 12/10 (Tales of Graces and other games)

Majin-Tenshinhan on 11 December 2009
ps3_jrpg_gamer said:
just wait and see when ff13 sells 1,2 millions on ps3 all wii owners will say it is a bomb because it has the worst main ff opening but noone considers the userbase
i have seen a lot of people saying that games in america sells more on 360 they don 't take account difference in userbase and sometimes ps3 version sells more in america

That's all fine and good, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or my post.



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ps3_jrpg_gamer on 11 December 2009

i thought Graces could sell 200k FD and 310k FW maybe i thought it could top that since i was hyped from ps3 vesperia sales



PhantomLink on 11 December 2009

To be honest I'm a little disappointed with the first day sales of ToG, maybe the weekend will push the sales to 150K.

 



Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?

mrstickball on 11 December 2009
Soriku said:


Two things.

1. ToG will obviously beat out ToH's first week which puts it at a better position legs wise.

2. Bundles won't account for a latge part of sales, but they do skew things in favor.

Considering this, I don't see why the game would stop at 250k.

Can we wait for first week sales? What if the game ends up selling similarly to ToV's first week increase and ends up selling 170k-180k instead? Arguing over first day sales is bullshit.

1) How does beating a game out for first week mean it will have better legs? If anything, it is the exact opposite: Larger games tend to be front loaded. Don't tell me you know this. Furthermore, we're comparing DS titles against console titles. The average Tales game on the DS sold about 50% of its LTD after its first week, compared to 35% on PS2 or Wii. What would make you think that Graces suddenly changes course and preforms less like the PS2 iterations?

2) How many bundles? Again, really want to know this. Bundles do not help legs. Furthermore, there is a very finite number of them so we may see an extra 10-20k in sales.

Okay, lets go over every Tales console game to point out exactly why I don't think that Graces is outside the norm with other major franchises launching (and to prove the insanity of Maijin's statement concerning NSMB: Wii and FFXIII):

  • Tales of Destiny 2 launched the week after Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire (1.2m units sold week 1). SD Gundam Generation 2 launched the same week to 355k units sold which was a PS2 title, also. Destiny 2 sold 65% of its LTD value on week 1.
  • Tales of Rebirth launched the same week that Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater launched. Also, Dragon Quest VIII was 4 weeks old which is a massive comparable. Rebirth sold 62% of its LTD value on week 1. (Interestingly enough, DQVIII outsold Rebirth on the very next week, according to VGC)
  • Tales of the Abyss launched the week prior to Kigndom Hearts 2. It sold 66% of its LTD value on week 1.
  • Tales of Destiny launched with no other major PS2 game the same week (it was the week that the Wii came out), and no comparable RPG competition the week after. It sold 70% of its LTD value on week 1.

So I must ask: Is Pokemon, Metal Gear Solid, DQVIII, and KH2 remote comparables for FFXIII and NSMB:Wii? I mean, the most frontloaded Tales game had no direct competition on its platform which should help one make the argument that having other major titles launch near isn't the real key indicator of a titles' first week performance. Not in Japan, at least.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

saicho on 11 December 2009
ps3_jrpg_gamer said:
just wait and see when ff13 sells 1,2 millions on ps3 all wii owners will say it is a bomb because it has the worst main ff opening but noone considers the userbase
i have seen a lot of people saying that games in america sells more on 360 they don 't take account difference in userbase and sometimes ps3 version sells more in america

A lot of people are saying PS3 would have the lowest opening because of user base and such BUT there are also a lot of FF/PS3 fans told those people they are wrong because FFX was on a similar user base and it opened at 1.89 million or something like that. I don't see how the user base argument can be used both ways.

And yes, I'm sure someone would call FFXIII bombed after first day no matter what number it has. I see that happened with NSMB Wii last week, ToG this week, and wouldn't be surprised to see it again for FFXIII next week.



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

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outlawauron on 11 December 2009
Soriku said:

How do you know Hearts bombed or sold below expectations when it sold 250k which is the normal amount for Tales nowadays? Did Tales of Versus bomb? Did Radiant Mythology bomb? Did ToV 360 bomb (yes, I don't even think ToV 360 bombed. It made up good sales in the West actually for a Tales game just because it's a quality RPG.)? I don't think so.

Where did this perception come from that 250k for a DS game is bad? Or for Tales? It's not, and you don't know what you're talking about.

Geez, with expectations that low....


What game has bombed?



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

mrstickball on 11 December 2009
Soriku said:
mrstickball said:
Soriku said:


Two things.

1. ToG will obviously beat out ToH's first week which puts it at a better position legs wise.

2. Bundles won't account for a latge part of sales, but they do skew things in favor.

Considering this, I don't see why the game would stop at 250k.

Can we wait for first week sales? What if the game ends up selling similarly to ToV's first week increase and ends up selling 170k-180k instead? Arguing over first day sales is bullshit.

1) How does beating a game out for first week mean it will have better legs? If anything, it is the exact opposite: Larger games tend to be front loaded. Don't tell me you know this. Furthermore, we're comparing DS titles against console titles. The average Tales game on the DS sold about 50% of its LTD after its first week, compared to 35% on PS2 or Wii. What would make you think that Graces suddenly changes course and preforms less like the PS2 iterations?

2) How many bundles? Again, really want to know this. Bundles do not help legs. Furthermore, there is a very finite number of them so we may see an extra 10-20k in sales.

Okay, lets go over every Tales console game to point out exactly why I don't think that Graces is outside the norm with other major franchises launching (and to prove the insanity of your statement):

  • Tales of Destiny 2 launched the week after Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire (1.2m units sold week 1). SD Gundam Generation 2 launched the same week to 355k units sold which was a PS2 title, also. Destiny 2 sold 65% of its LTD value on week 1.
  • Tales of Rebirth launched the same week that Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater launched. Also, Dragon Quest VIII was 4 weeks old which is a massive comparable. Rebirth sold 62% of its LTD value on week 1. (Interestingly enough, DQVIII outsold Rebirth on the very next week, according to VGC)
  • Tales of the Abyss launched the week prior to Kigndom Hearts 2. It sold 66% of its LTD value on week 1.
  • Tales of Destiny launched with no other major PS2 game the same week (it was the week that the Wii came out), and no comparable RPG competition the week after. It sold 70% of its LTD value on week 1.

So I must ask: Is Pokemon, Metal Gear Solid, DQVIII, and KH2 remote comparables for FFXIII and NSMB:Wii? I mean, the most frontloaded Tales game had no direct competition on its platform which should help one make the argument that having other major titles launch near isn't the real key indicator of a titles' first week performance. Not in Japan, at least.

 


First of all, what the hell did you do with your post?

1. Both ToH and ToG released in the holiday season. With Christmas, games have legs. How many times do I have to repeat this? How often do you see games around Christmas time follow patterns of games releasing during another part of the year? I shouldn't have to tell you that. You haven't seen PS2 Tales sales have you? Go look at them and look at their legs. Almost all of them released around the holidays too, or at the very least at the end of November.

Did you read anything I said about Tales games? Tales games during Christmas have no legs. Look at the data yourself. Did Christmas help Kingdom Hearts 2 legs? Dragon quest? Tales of The Aybss, Destiny or Rebirth? I agree that Christmas gives games better legs, typically, but we see that franchise RPGs are the exception to the rule. 

2. 10k-20k extra sales would help against 250k.

Let's assume ToG sells 170k or 180k week one if it follows similarish patterns to ToV PS3 or Tales of Versus. If those sales are 60% of ToG's sales it would be closer to or at 300k LTD than 250k. With a bundle adding even 10k-20k more sales it would skew things compared to the others that didn't have bundles. If it sells 156k+ sales would still be higher than 250k LTD with the 60% sales FW.

And we still don't know if bundles are counted or not.

Ah, but bundles don't help legs. They help initial week sales. If Graces sells ~150k units first week plus 20k bundles for a total of 170k, it won't see extra legs based on the bundles, but on the actual software. So instead of selling 283,000 units (170k / 0.6) it would sell closer to 270k ((150k / 0.6) + 20k)

Also, show me a franchise RPG game that came out during Christmas that has another non-Christmas comparable that had better legs. As I said, every tales game that came out during Christmas or not had the SAME LEGS. Did you not read that? DOTNW sold 71% on week 1. Symphonia sold 65%. Those are the same legs outside of Christmas.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

outlawauron on 11 December 2009
Soriku said:
outlawauron said:
Soriku said:

How do you know Hearts bombed or sold below expectations when it sold 250k which is the normal amount for Tales nowadays? Did Tales of Versus bomb? Did Radiant Mythology bomb? Did ToV 360 bomb (yes, I don't even think ToV 360 bombed. It made up good sales in the West actually for a Tales game just because it's a quality RPG.)? I don't think so.

Where did this perception come from that 250k for a DS game is bad? Or for Tales? It's not, and you don't know what you're talking about.

Geez, with expectations that low....


What game has bombed?

This is you thinking Tales games are these insanely huge big budget projects like FF...

The PSP Tales and DS Tales (at least Innocence and Hearts, and Tempest if they didn't spend much which they probably didn't. The game is like 15 hours, outsourced, and mediocre and is considered a spinoff.) have undoubtedly made a profit with the sales they've gotten. Handheld titles don't cost much, especially not Tales...

I don't think ToV 360 really made a profit in Japan, but with Western sales it probably did.

Of course I don't think Final Fantasy titles have the same budgets as Tales games. What kind of idiot do you take me for? (Final Fantasy XII in itself probably costed more than every handhelds Tales combined)

I agree with you that the PSP and the DS Tales (not sure on Hearts or Tempest) did well enough, but I do not think 360 Vesperia or Dawn of the New World did well enough in Japan.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

ClaudeLv250 on 11 December 2009

I was wondering why this thread exploded.

Then I noticed that it was the same old song and dance from the same old Wii detractors looking for a good troll.

Never change, VGChartz.



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"

Yakuzaice on 11 December 2009
Soriku said:
mrstickball said:
Soriku said:


Two things.

1. ToG will obviously beat out ToH's first week which puts it at a better position legs wise.

2. Bundles won't account for a latge part of sales, but they do skew things in favor.

Considering this, I don't see why the game would stop at 250k.

Can we wait for first week sales? What if the game ends up selling similarly to ToV's first week increase and ends up selling 170k-180k instead? Arguing over first day sales is bullshit.

1) How does beating a game out for first week mean it will have better legs? If anything, it is the exact opposite: Larger games tend to be front loaded. Don't tell me you know this. Furthermore, we're comparing DS titles against console titles. The average Tales game on the DS sold about 50% of its LTD after its first week, compared to 35% on PS2 or Wii. What would make you think that Graces suddenly changes course and preforms less like the PS2 iterations?

2) How many bundles? Again, really want to know this. Bundles do not help legs. Furthermore, there is a very finite number of them so we may see an extra 10-20k in sales.

Okay, lets go over every Tales console game to point out exactly why I don't think that Graces is outside the norm with other major franchises launching (and to prove the insanity of your statement):

  • Tales of Destiny 2 launched the week after Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire (1.2m units sold week 1). SD Gundam Generation 2 launched the same week to 355k units sold which was a PS2 title, also. Destiny 2 sold 65% of its LTD value on week 1.
  • Tales of Rebirth launched the same week that Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater launched. Also, Dragon Quest VIII was 4 weeks old which is a massive comparable. Rebirth sold 62% of its LTD value on week 1. (Interestingly enough, DQVIII outsold Rebirth on the very next week, according to VGC)
  • Tales of the Abyss launched the week prior to Kigndom Hearts 2. It sold 66% of its LTD value on week 1.
  • Tales of Destiny launched with no other major PS2 game the same week (it was the week that the Wii came out), and no comparable RPG competition the week after. It sold 70% of its LTD value on week 1.

So I must ask: Is Pokemon, Metal Gear Solid, DQVIII, and KH2 remote comparables for FFXIII and NSMB:Wii? I mean, the most frontloaded Tales game had no direct competition on its platform which should help one make the argument that having other major titles launch near isn't the real key indicator of a titles' first week performance. Not in Japan, at least.

 


First of all, what the hell did you do with your post?

1. Both ToH and ToG released in the holiday season. With Christmas, games have legs. How many times do I have to repeat this? How often do you see games around Christmas time follow patterns of games releasing during another part of the year? I shouldn't have to tell you that. You haven't seen PS2 Tales sales have you? Go look at them and look at their legs. Almost all of them released around the holidays too, or at the very least at the end of November.

ToH sold 120k first day.  LTD is a 250k.  Vesperia did 147k first day, LTD is 335k.  So Vesperia had a better opening and better legs (same with the 360 version's legs for that matter) despite not being released in the holiday season.