Gaming media's largely in the same position most developers are this gen... resistant to change, going out of business and fast losing relevance thanks to Nintendo's success. The sooner the herdcore dies out, the better.

@ Barozi.

I'm sorry but your reasons for not liking the Wii are atrocious. You think it's games library is horrible by console standards, it's funny how the people with this mindset are usually those who aren't even willing to give the good games a chance. You may not like its current library of games, i too feel that it lacks in many areas; but i will say here and now that it has a large number of quality titles that are completely overlooked by people like you for the most miniscule of reasons.
One of your reasons was because of "Wii Fit, Wii Music etc." what does that even mean? You don't like a specific series so that's now a massive contribution to why you don't like the console altogether? I do not like the numbered Final Fantasy titles, this has nothing to do with Playstation consoles, and i don't dislike them because of it.
So some "shovelware titles" sell on the Wii as well, what's new? You're actually going to use this as a reason for not liking the console? Bullshit sells on other consoles too but i don't hate the consoles because of that.
If you don't like how some developers make mediocre games for the Wii why don't you ignore those titles and instead look to try some of the better efforts. Is it so much to ask that you look for a game you believe you will enjoy and try it out!? You are not forced to play games you don't think you will enjoy, games don't fall in your lap and force you to play them ya know, the choice is yours!

I don't like the Wii. At least not as much as my other consoles. This is because i have personal issues with the actual console itself and its interface. Not foolishness that doesn't relate to me in any way. I am not a fan of the Wii series of games either (except Sports Resort), so i just avoid them, why can't you do the same?
You could have at least used worthwile excuses such as it's library of games just don't seem to appeal to you, maybe you're more into top notch shooters or fighters or realistic racers, all of which are available in larger numbers on PS3 and X360. Or you're more of a fan of high end, realistic graphics which the Wii isn't as effective at emulating, instead of more colorful art styles. Perhaps you're just not a fan of motion controls, don't really enjoy the games that utilize them and prefer traditional schemes for your games. Mayhaps you're more of an online gamer and are far more satisfied with XBox Live and PSN then Nintendo's online offering. There are a lot of fair reasons for why one may not like or choose not to purchase the Wii, or any of the consoles for that matter. Instead though, you use nonsense such as "some shovelware titles sell extremely well, while the majority does not care about many good games." as a reason for why you do not like the console. You sir, have come across as a very ignorant individual.

IxisNaugus said: @ Barozi. I'm sorry but your reasons for not liking the Wii are atrocious. You think it's games library is horrible by console standards, it's funny how the people with this mindset are usually those who aren't even willing to give the good games a chance. You may not like its current library of games, i too feel that it lacks in many areas; but i will say here and now that it has a large number of quality titles that are completely overlooked by people like you for the most miniscule of reasons. One of your reasons was because of "Wii Fit, Wii Music etc." what does that even mean? You don't like a specific series so that's now a massive contribution to why you don't like the console altogether? I do not like the numbered Final Fantasy titles, this has nothing to do with Playstation consoles, and i don't dislike them because of it. So some "shovelware titles" sell on the Wii as well, what's new? You're actually going to use this as a reason for not liking the console? Bullshit sells on other consoles too but i don't hate the consoles because of that. If you don't like how some developers make mediocre games for the Wii why don't you ignore those titles and instead look to try some of the better efforts. Is it so much to ask that you look for a game you believe you will enjoy and try it out!? You are not forced to play games you don't think you will enjoy, games don't fall in your lap and force you to play them ya know, the choice is yours! I don't like the Wii. At least not as much as my other consoles. This is because i have personal issues with the actual console itself and its interface. Not foolishness that doesn't relate to me in any way. I am not a fan of the Wii series of games either (except Sports Resort), so i just avoid them, why can't you do the same? You could have at least used worthwile excuses such as it's library of games just don't seem to appeal to you, maybe you're more into top notch shooters or fighters or realistic racers, all of which are available in larger numbers on PS3 and X360. Or you're more of a fan of high end, realistic graphics which the Wii isn't as effective at emulating, instead of more colorful art styles. Perhaps you're just not a fan of motion controls, don't really enjoy the games that utilize them and prefer traditional schemes for your games. Mayhaps you're more of an online gamer and are far more satisfied with XBox Live and PSN then Nintendo's online offering. There are a lot of fair reasons for why one may not like or choose not to purchase the Wii, or any of the consoles for that matter. Instead though, you use nonsense such as "some shovelware titles sell extremely well, while the majority does not care about many good games." as a reason for why you do not like the console. You sir, have come across as a very ignorant individual.

First off, I've played:

Boom Blox, Disaster Day of Crisis, Little King's Story, Madworld, Metroid Prime 3, Muramasa, Pokemon Battle Revolution, Punch Out Wii, Resident Evil 4 Wii, Resident Evil The Umbrella Chronicles, Dead Space Extraction, Mario Kart Wii, Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Super Paper Mario, Mario Party 8, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, The Conduit, Wario Land Shake It, Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess, Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort and a few more.

I'm a huge fan of Metacritic. If you like it or not, it expresses my gaming tastes in 98% of all cases. I can praise most Wii games with a 90+ rating and I have the same negative opinion of games that are under 70.

When there simply aren't enough great games to try what should I do ? Play them again or hope to find a great game under the huge pile of mediocrity ? Of course I searched and tried more, but none of those really impressed. I don't only need "good" games, because every console console has them, I need "great" games and from what I've seen the each of the HD consoles offers far far more of them. Not only them but also the PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, Xbox, Sega Saturn, Gamecube, Nintendo 64, SNES, NES and so on. The winner of a generation should have the best games, but the Wii is far away from that.

 

Shovelware titles like I said before are the worst thing that can happen to a console and it usually happens to the most successful console. It's only getting worse when they start selling well. Developers use shovelware games to make quick cash. Those games have a really low budget, have a bad quality and unaware people are getting screwed again and again. If they sell more, then in the future you might not find any good games in a store, instead you'll ONLY find stuff like "Obama's White House Racing" or "Imagine: Drug Addict" etc.

Wii Fit is basically the door opener for shovelware games. Tony Hawk Ride followed its steps and is (hopefully) going to fail miserably. Same for Wii Music although that already was a low quality product from the beginning, so I'm glad that it didn't sell that much. Furthermore Wii Fit also rips off customers IMO, because it's fairly expensive and if you want to become fitter, just buy a gym subscription for that money or spend nothing at all and do some sport activities outside with some friends.

 

Not enough good games = I do not like the Wii

Customers are gettig ripped off = I don't respect the Wii

 

We need a proper version of Nintendo's seal of quality again......

@Barozi

yes I would like to see the Nintendo seal of quality again. But since third party is abandoning Nintendo, the company is doing incredibly well. You can hate the Wii, but it is not all Nintendo's fault.

The question calls for an objective response, so I will leave opinion out of this:

1) It's in first. Being a winning console, it garners hate from fans of other consoles.
2) It's not HD. I don't really understand this one, but it's there.
3) It has quite a few low-quality games that sell and high-quality games that don't sell. Also some high quality games which sell and low-quality games that don't, but nobody ever remembers the good things.
4) The Wii install base is made up of Nintendo fans and casual gamers. Casual gamers don't post on the internet. Nintendo fans aren't overly common after last generation.

Why it doesn't get many third party games:

1) Most third party games don't sell particularly well on Wii (the exception being...how do I explain this without saying the word "casual"?), compared to the HD consoles. In fact, many "casual" (not a very accurate word) games actually sell better on 360 than Wii. Third party games in general sell better on HD. Actually, this applies to every Nintendo console from the N64 onwards. First party games ALWAYS sell the best, on Nintendo systems.

2) The HD has a larger install base than the Wii. Because the two HD brothers (not twins) have similar capabilities, it is fairly simple to develop for both. To make a Wii version is to make a version which is graphically inferior and has a different control scheme.

When you bring the two together, a developer making a Wii game is putting effort into making a new version different from the other two, which may or may not sell as well as, and make as much profit as, the HD versions. This isn't helped by the fact that many third party games on the Wii are badly made ports, and those that aren't (NMH, MadWorld, The Conduit, Zack and Wiki) tend to be...not commercial failures, but not huge sellers on the level of Ninty first party games like Mario and Wii Fit, or large third party HD games, like Halo, GTA and CoD.

EDIT: Oh, and before somebody says I'm trolling (I know it will happen), I challenge you to find something in my post which is untrue or irrelevant, these being the two types of trolling.

"Most third party games don't sell particularly well on Wii (the exception being...how do I explain this without saying the word "casual"?),"

That's because most of the games MADE by third parties are casual. They basically made the situation they are complaining about. If they had started with hit core games from the beginning, the sales would have been different.

LordTheNightKnight said: "Most third party games don't sell particularly well on Wii (the exception being...how do I explain this without saying the word "casual"?)," That's because most of the games MADE by third parties are casual. They basically made the situation they are complaining about. If they had started with hit core games from the beginning, the sales would have been different.

Indeed. But look at the ones which aren't casual (and are exclusives, and are considered quality):

• MadWorld
• The Conduit
• Zack and Wiki
• No More Heroes

None of them broke a million, and only one broke 500k.

Then there are games like Dead Space Extraction.

"MadWorld"

A brawler isn't a big selling genre these days.

"The Conduit"

FPS is, but that isn't a guarantee of big sales. Most of the hype was online talk, and that isn't a good marketing move.

"Zack and Wiki"

Puzzle Adventure games are not a big selling genre now either.

"No More Heroes"

Did you even pay attention to the developer's past record. This is a STEP UP from his last games. It's getting a freakin' sequel.

You haven't brought up games that would sell loads. Three are niche games, and the other didn't have loads of marketing.

Monster Hunter 3 was part of a hit series, and it had marketing. Guess what? It sold a million.

Kantor said: LordTheNightKnight said: "Most third party games don't sell particularly well on Wii (the exception being...how do I explain this without saying the word "casual"?)," That's because most of the games MADE by third parties are casual. They basically made the situation they are complaining about. If they had started with hit core games from the beginning, the sales would have been different. Indeed. But look at the ones which aren't casual (and are exclusives, and are considered quality): MadWorld The Conduit Zack and Wiki No More Heroes None of them broke a million, and only one broke 500k. Then there are games like Dead Space Extraction.

Madworld = Ultraviolent , short , black & white... Some enjoyed it , some hated it... got mixed reviews , sold not that well (had marketing)

Conduit = Good controls / graphics but poor level design and story , mixed reviews = moderate sales ( had marketing )

Zack & Wiki - niche , point & click , no ads , weird art style = moderate sales ( Capcom's to blame )

NMH = new IP ( as all of the above ) , no marketing , good sales.

A game does not need to sell a million to break even. But to sell a million it needs to be a good game and to have good marketing.

None of the above had both... 2 of the games were good but did not have a good marketing campaign. The other 2 did have a marketing campaign but did not turn out to be that good.

Good game + good marketing = $$$$ - Plain & simple....

@ Barozi.

For someone who does not like, probably does not own nor respects the console in any way, i can't imagine you played any of those games for a reasonable amount of time, enjoyed them or even wanted to enjoy them.

I find it baffling how you could even ask such a thing, how many of those Wii games did you even enjoy? Please tell me, because i would like to know: What is a "great game" to you? What are the requirements for the game to be great? Does it require a 90%+ score on Metacritic for it to be great in your eyes? Does it have to be a big budget? Please elaborate.

A great game to me is a game that i enjoy enough to play for very extended periods of time. Regardless of it's metacritic score or its development budget. If it plays well and is enjoyable enough, i'd say it's a great game. That is not to say, however, that games i do not enjoy are not great games. Some games click with me, others do not, that's just down to my own personal preference etc.
I ask you the above questions because i can't see how you can flat out say there just is not enough great games on the Wii when not only do you have a clear negative bias against the console and it's library, but come across as the kind of person who believes that games are only great if they have proved themselves to be a high ranking title through metacritic.

Bioshock, for example, is a big budget title. It plays well, it's technically impressive and was very successful at retail (for the X360 anyway). It is a great game. Metacritic's 96% score reflects this also and user reception has been phenominal.
Mario Kart Wii on the other hand is also a big budget title, also plays well and is also a very impressive package that sold beyond most other games this generation. It is also a great game. User scores indicate that this is an amazing title, The Metacritic score however, has Mario Kart Wii at 82%, a full 14% under Bioshock. Does this mean Mario Kart Wii is not a great game anymore because it's score is so far behind Bioshock?
I don't want you to tell me that Mario Kart Wii is not as good as Bioshock, because that's not what my point is; i am saying that user reception, sales and general opinions have proven far beyond metacritics ratings that both these titles are great games. I'm not saying the system is worthless, but if you are honestly using Metacritic to decide what are great games for you and what are not, then you are seriously limiting yourself by denying games you may enjoy a lot more than you'd expect.
And in response to your question? Well first i'll say that yes there are enough great games on the Wii, despite what you think, unless you plough through games so quickly that more than... i dunno, 50 games are not enough to satisfy you. If that is the case then i advise you play your games more, there is a lot more to them then single player/campaign whatever. And to answer the question, i can only say you should buy more games and play more games.

I find it interesting that you brought up previous generation consoles as well. Did you forget that the Wii offers many of the greatest retro titles around through Virtual Console? Titles not even limited to Nintendo's previous hardware. You say the Wii's library does not compare to none of the last gen consoles, not only could i argue against this, i can just as easily argue that the PS3 and X360 are under the same roof. I won't go any further than that however, as it'd end in a list of games being pasted which i am not prepared to fetch for at this current moment in time. I will state however, regardless of whether you agree with me or not, that the Wii has many of the best games this generation has to offer, and i'd go so far as to say that (unless you don't like action or platformer titles) Super Mario Galaxy, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess and New Super Mario Bros. Wii alone make the console itself a must buy. These are exclusives titles that offer experiences not currently available on other consoles. This of course is the same for the other consoles, because when it comes down to it, if you wan't the best games the industry has to offer, you're probably going to need to own all the available consoles.


Yes, shovelware is bad for those looking to play great games like ourselves, and i say again to ignore them and concentrate on the games you know you will probably enjoy. The PS2 had a lot of "shovelware" as well, this didn't stop it from having brilliant games though did it, it still had some of last generations most amazing titles and the Wii does too this generation. Even Metacritic has my back on that one.

Also, please stop acting like you're some sort of guardian angel of the gaming industry here to preach the word of how the Wii is the evil suckling of the devil. Shovelware titles and generally bad games are on all the consoles and people will end up buyng them. It is not some disease exclusive to the Wii. I don't know how you or anyone else can believe that the other consoles are somehow immune to bad games or that they somehow started showing up when the Wii was released.


No it wasn't. Shovelware existed long before Wii Fit and even before this god damn generation. Wii Fit was only the door opener for more games that utilize the balance board, possible sequels or additions like Wii Fit Plus, and similar styled games or copycats like EA Sports Active. I agree with you on believing Wii Fit rips customers off with its price point, i think it is an absurd amount to pay for something you could easily do without the product (check you weight, exercise etc.) and the gym is just the best alternative anyway, not only is it cheaper, but it actually makes you fit. None of this however is any reason to hate or disrespect the console. I am not enthusiastic at Microsoft's NATAL (and after hearing some of your statements, i hope you aren't either), i think it was a ludicrous idea that will end up being massively overpriced and wont have the proper support from third parties or Microsoft, but i'm not going use it as an excuse to hate on the X360, because i don't want anything to do with it so far, and i don't have to have anything to do with it. I am not forced to use NATAL, just like you aren't forced to purchase or play Wii Fit.


While i personally say that the Wii could have more games of an appreciative quality in a few specific genre's, not only does it have enough good games, it also has enough great games. The only one saying otherwise is yourself.


If the customer makes proper use of the hardware and whatever software they've bought for it, i doubt they'll believe they have been ripped off. They were not forced to buy anything they did not want to. Activision's Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is being sold at game specialist retailers here in Europe for an RRP of £55, approximately $90 (fortunately, other places have decided to sell the game for far far cheap, this won't last much longer however). If you insist on calling out game prices ripping off customers please go and tell Activision to stop ripping off Europeans with Modern Warfare 2's price point.

Evidently, we also need more open minded gamers who don't use horrible excuses for why they do not like a console. Of course, fairness is too much to ask of hardcore gamers.