By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Man in 'coma' for 23 years was awake all along

Baroque_Dude said:
What's his current condition?
I read that he couldn't do anything but he can read books, now. Does this mean that he can recover some bodily functions?

d21lewis said:

*edit* You know what annoys me about me?  I read the entire thread, find it profound, and all I have to add to the dialog is a one liner.

No parenthesis. Great. You could say something related to Peggle, though. That would be an interesting approach.

He has been trained to to move his right forefinger and that took 3 years, that's it so far I believe. 



Around the Network

And I thought waiting for the bus felt like a long time.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

NJ5 said:
And I thought waiting for the bus felt like a long time.

In the UK, waiting for a bus does take 23 years.



SamuelRSmith said:
NJ5 said:
And I thought waiting for the bus felt like a long time.

In the UK, waiting for a bus does take 23 years.

On Friday I waited a whole fucking hour for a bus. That was hell enough, let alone 23 years. If I wasn't in such a good mood that day I would have been pissed off beyond belief.

I blame Margaret Thatcher, she is the reason buses are so shit lol.



I now lie awake some nights thinking about this since I originally saw the story. Freakish stuff. Poor sod, obviously.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Around the Network
highwaystar101 said:
Baroque_Dude said:
What's his current condition?
I read that he couldn't do anything but he can read books, now. Does this mean that he can recover some bodily functions?

d21lewis said:

*edit* You know what annoys me about me?  I read the entire thread, find it profound, and all I have to add to the dialog is a one liner.

No parenthesis. Great. You could say something related to Peggle, though. That would be an interesting approach.

He has been trained to to move his right forefinger and that took 3 years, that's it so far I believe. 

Wow... Thank you for the info.



"I think that I don't think."

- Soli Deo Gloria -

The FUTURE is the FUTURE. Now... B_E_L_I_E_V_E!

highwaystar101 said:
Baroque_Dude said:
What's his current condition?
I read that he couldn't do anything but he can read books, now. Does this mean that he can recover some bodily functions?

d21lewis said:

*edit* You know what annoys me about me?  I read the entire thread, find it profound, and all I have to add to the dialog is a one liner.

No parenthesis. Great. You could say something related to Peggle, though. That would be an interesting approach.

He has been trained to to move his right forefinger and that took 3 years, that's it so far I believe. 

The man "alert while locked in" to a vegetative state appears to be a farce


Many news sites have been carrying a story today about a man who allegedly for 23 years has been "locked in" to a paralyzed body while being "fully alert" but misdiagnosed as being in a vegetative state.

The James Randi Educational Foundation has published a rebuttal -

The "facilitated communication" process consists of the "facilitator" actually holding the hand of the subject over the keyboard, moving the hand to the key, then drawing the hand back from the keyboard! This very intimate participatory action lends itself very easily to transferring the intended information to the computer screen. In the video you have just viewed, it is very evident that (a) the "facilitator" is looking directly at the keyboard and the screen, and (b) is moving the subject's hand. The video editing is also biased, giving angles that line up the head of the subject with the screen, as if the subject were watching the screen...

Watch the first 30 seconds or so of the video embedded above to see what James Randi is talking about. He explains the "clever Hans" effect more at the link.

 

EDIT: here is the full article by James Randi:

This Cruel Farce Has To Stop!
Swift
Written by James Randi   
Monday, 23 November 2009 20:42

I'm enraged. Several perceptive persons have sent me to msnbc.com - where we can see Dr. Nancy Snyderman relating a story.  It's a heartrender, described thus by Dr. Snyderman:

A mother [in Belgium] says her son has emerged from what doctors thought was a vegetative state to say he was fully conscious for 23 years but could not respond because he was paralyzed.

No, that is not what the man said, Dr. Snyderman. That's what an incompetent layperson typed for him! I ask you to first go to http://tinyurl.com/y8lku48, and note the section of the video from 12 to 35 seconds, then come back here.

This is yet another obvious example of abysmal, practiced, purposeful ignorance by medical personnel - including Dr. Snyderman and her staff who prepared this piece. I cannot understand how anyone, professional medical person or layman, can continue to believe that the farce known as "Facilitated Communication" [FC] represents anything other than a fantasy that was begun back in 1977, when an Australian woman named Rosemary Crossley came up with the idea that autistic persons could express their thoughts via a keyboard when their hand was "supported" by what she called a "facilitator." In 1989, Douglas Biklen, a sociologist and professor of special education at Syracuse University, eagerly took up her cause, and as a result vast sums were donated to SU by friends and family members of autism victims - money that was simply wasted in futile "research."

I personally investigated this matter. In March of 1992 I was contacted by Dr. Anne M. Donnellan, of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who asked if I would be willing to participate in an investigation of FC as used with autistic children. I was already familiar with FC, and suggested to her that I felt the researchers were perhaps under the influence of the Clever Hans Effect [CHE], also known as the "ideomotor effect,"  in which the trainer - the facilitator in this case - was unconsciously transmitting the information to the autistic child. This possibility was emphatically denied by Dr. Donnellan, and I was assured that every care had been taken to ensure that the CHE was not in operation. The Clever Hans Effect is notorious in psychology. Early in the last century, a horse named Clever Hans - in German, der Kluge Hans - was claimed to have been able to perform arithmetic and other simple intellectual tasks. In 1907, psychologist Oskar Pfungst showed conclusively that the horse was not actually performing these mental tasks, but was reacting to cues provided by his trainer.

My tests of autistic children at the University of Wisconsin-Madison clearly showed that FC was simply a tragic farce.  My findings were totally ignored. The full account of this matter will be discussed in detail in my next book, A Magician in the Laboratory.

The "facilitated communication" process consists of the "facilitator" actually holding the hand of the subject over the keyboard, moving the hand to the key, then drawing the hand back from the keyboard! This very intimate participatory action lends itself very easily to transferring the intended information to the computer screen. In the video you have just viewed, it is very evident that (a) the "facilitator" is looking directly at the keyboard and the screen, and (b) is moving the subject's hand. The video editing is also biased, giving angles that line up the head of the subject with the screen, as if the subject were watching the screen.

This man in the msnbc.com piece is not seeing the screen. He is not aware of what is going on. He is an unknowing victim of these charlatans. A simple test - such as that done on October 19th, 1993, in a Frontline (PBS) documentary highlighting these concerns, "Prisoners of Silence," would prove that FC is a total fraud.  This powerful and comprehensive program proved that FC was a delusion.

Dr. Snyderman, how did this get by you? The evidence is right there on the screen! Others have solved this fraud. The Association for Behavior Analysis International (ABAI), the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, and the American Association on Mental Retardation, have no doubts about this. ABAI calls FC a "discredited technique" and warns that "its use is unwarranted and unethical." The Association for Science in Autism Treatment reviewed the research and position statements and concluded that the messages typed were controlled by the facilitator, not by the individual with autism, and that FC did not improve language skills.

We critics of FC question why people can apparently give speeches in public - via a keyboard and a "facilitator" - and go to college - similarly "assisted" - yet they cannot answer a series of simple questions under controlled conditions! Psychologist Daniel Wegner, professor of psychology at Harvard University and a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science has stated that facilitated communication is a striking example of the ideomotor effect, and tests of FC show that it is a complete fraud, farce, and delusion!

Please, Dr. Snyderman, may we hear from you, in light of what appears here?


http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/783-this-cruel-farce-has-to-stop.html



highwaystar101 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
NJ5 said:
And I thought waiting for the bus felt like a long time.

In the UK, waiting for a bus does take 23 years.

On Friday I waited a whole fucking hour for a bus. That was hell enough, let alone 23 years. If I wasn't in such a good mood that day I would have been pissed off beyond belief.

I blame Margaret Thatcher, she is the reason buses are so shit lol.

The differnce between the domestic and international perceptions of margaret thatcher always get me.



Yeah, that's seriously suspect to say the least.

And James Randi knows what's up! That guy rules.



Kasz216 said:
highwaystar101 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
NJ5 said:
And I thought waiting for the bus felt like a long time.

In the UK, waiting for a bus does take 23 years.

On Friday I waited a whole fucking hour for a bus. That was hell enough, let alone 23 years. If I wasn't in such a good mood that day I would have been pissed off beyond belief.

I blame Margaret Thatcher, she is the reason buses are so shit lol.

The differnce between the domestic and international perceptions of margaret thatcher always get me.

I think internationally she is seen as a great person, but in Britain her premiership is seen as a bit of a mixed bag. I think we are frequently reminded that she wasn't that great really. Fair enough she got inflation rates down in the mid 80's, but they sharply increased again near the end of her third term. And she privatised a lot of national services, some privatised services paid off but some went quite badly.

However, one of my major issues with British politics is the way the transport industry is ran and regulated, I hate it. It's not just me, a lot of people think this way. I think privatising the national bus company in 1988 was handled very poorly and is the root cause of a lot of problems that exist in the transport industry in Britain today. I don't mind it being privatised, I can see the point to it, but it could have been done so much better.

Anyway, it was only meant to be a humerous comment and not taken literally.