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Forums - Gaming - Think Left 4 Dead 2 is an expansion? You're an idiot.

Squilliam said:
vlad321 said:
Squilliam said:

Respectfully whilst you may value innovative and fresh approaches the market dictates similartude and most people either don't care or prefer to play games they know they'll like.

You mean the console market, funny how diablo clones got knocked around for being exactly that  clones, and too similar to a given game to be considered worth something more than mediocre games. I'm also sure it's pure coincidence that the feeling did a 180 turn when consoles became more dominant.

Im pretty sure it happened because of Direct X 9. Before Direct X 9 games were generally innovative. After Direct X 9 and onto 10 and 11 the games just started becoming clones of one another. Obviously it was Microsofts fault, they should have never released a new Direct X version!

Yes.. obviously... There is absolutely no other explanation!

 

....

...

Spin it however you want, consoles have reduced gaming to a repetition of games most of which shouldn't even be considered passable.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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MAFKKA said:
Engine or no engine. The game dosen't have a story, unlike Gears, U2 etc.

Oh wow. It doesn't have a story. Holy shit, I never realized I was playing online shooters for the story. Here I thought it was the gameplay that kept me coming back. I don't know what I was thinking enjoying Counter Strike, Tribes, and Serious Sam which clearly deserve to be ridiculed for having no story to speak of!

Its just L4D1 with new skins.

Saying it's L4D1 with new skins shows me you obviously have little experience with L4D1 beyond watching gameplay videos on youtube and maybe a few runs with bots on normal difficulty. I could go over all the changes that make this a very worthy successor to the original, but I fear it will just be lost with you and other detractors who in all likeliness simply don't like the kind of gameplay L4D offers.

Its not like you get the feeling of finding out how the zombies became zombies or whatnot in L4D2. Its just zombies, and you shoot them. In the first one you shot them with guns, now you can smack em around a bit aswell in a new scenery.

There are hints dropped throughout the 5 campaigns about how people became zombies from scrawls on the wall, to dialogue and things you encounter. It never overtly states what caused it, rather letting the player draw their own conclusions. Your gross oversimplication here "it's just zombies and you shoot them" shows me you have no friends to play with or maybe just don't like cooperating. Who knows.

3 out of the new special infected were cut from the first game. So its more weapons, skins and a much less "scary" enviorment for 60 bucks. Im such an idiot for playing L4D2. But atleast im not that mentaly retarded to be spending 60 bucks on it.

No. You're wrong. Much less scray enviroments? How about you play the game and get back to me about scariness? Trudging through swamps in the rain, edging across skyscraper ledges, navigating a minefield of alarmed cars in addition to cresendos that prevent some of the annoying camping from the first. Much more recorded audio for each survivor, more contextual sayings. A well-done Realism mode, Versus mode that's much tougher for survivors than the first, with a beefed up AI director controlling shortcuts, weather, pacing... everything. I could go on and on.

 

Let me get one thing out of the way. If you disliked L4D1 because of how it plays, there isn't anything in L4D2 that's going to warm you to the playstyle. It's a cooperative and competitive online shooter which hinges on your team's ability to work together. This is more of an issue of what you enjoy playing than any shortcoming by Valve. It's a thorough, well-thought out improvement of the L4D formula in just about every regard.

My replies in bold above.

 

 



Demon's Souls Official Thread  | Currently playing: Left 4 Dead 2, LittleBigPlanet 2, Magicka

vlad321 said:
Squilliam said:

Im pretty sure it happened because of Direct X 9. Before Direct X 9 games were generally innovative. After Direct X 9 and onto 10 and 11 the games just started becoming clones of one another. Obviously it was Microsofts fault, they should have never released a new Direct X version!

Yes.. obviously... There is absolutely no other explanation!

 

....

...

Spin it however you want, consoles have reduced gaming to a repetition of games most of which shouldn't even be considered passable.

Or possibly it was due to developers getting bored of releasing games using the same old keyboard + mouse interface. They found the innovation of consoles with different analogue stick placements refreshing and thats why console games are FAR more innovative than PC only games.



Tease.

Squilliam said:
vlad321 said:
Squilliam said:

Im pretty sure it happened because of Direct X 9. Before Direct X 9 games were generally innovative. After Direct X 9 and onto 10 and 11 the games just started becoming clones of one another. Obviously it was Microsofts fault, they should have never released a new Direct X version!

Yes.. obviously... There is absolutely no other explanation!

 

....

...

Spin it however you want, consoles have reduced gaming to a repetition of games most of which shouldn't even be considered passable.

Or possibly it was due to developers getting bored of releasing games using the same old keyboard + mouse interface. They found the innovation of consoles with different analogue stick placements refreshing and thats why console games are FAR more innovative than PC only games.

Oh yes because after half a doze Halo games (spanning 2 consoles), Guitar Hero, 4 CoD games, and other countless sequals to oher games innovation is definitely happening. Also the only innovation they brought was how to dumb down their games to fit a dumb down control scheme. To which my hat is off to them, they somehow managed to make games for controllers that weren't utter shit, just mediocre.

It's like saying I'm innovating in the area of medicines by finding ways to operate by using a rusty dull butter knife instead of a scalpel. Far more innovation than the people who are figuring out how to operate using prcision lasers.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Great deal on it at GameStop this friday for $29.99...



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

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All people that pay full price for Left4Dead 2 are "mentally retarded", eh?  You shouldn't be making false insinuations about a game you clearly no little about, let alone be INSULTING people simply for buying it.MAFKKA said:
Engine or no engine. The game dosen't have a story, unlike Gears, U2 etc. Its just L4D1 with new skins. Its not like you get the feeling of finding out how the zombies became zombies or whatnot in L4D2. Its just zombies, and you shoot them. In the first one you shot them with guns, now you can smack em around a bit aswell in a new scenery.

3 out of the new special infected were cut from the first game. So its more weapons, skins and a much less "scary" enviorment for 60 bucks. Im such an idiot for playing L4D2. But atleast im not that mentaly retarded to be spending 60 bucks on it.

You shouldn't be making inaccurate characterizations about a game you clearly no little about, let alone be INSULTING people simply for buying it.



The reason there is so much furor over L4D2 is Valve themselves. They made so many promises for additional content for L4D1 and then they release a sequel that has all of the things they were promising for L4D1. I never really go into L4D but the reason there is so much backlash is because Valve pulled a Peter Molyneux. If they had never made the promises about additional content for L4D1 they wouldn't be dealing with all this furor.



Darc Requiem said:
The reason there is so much furor over L4D2 is Valve themselves. They made so many promises for additional content for L4D1 and then they release a sequel that has all of the things they were promising for L4D1. I never really go into L4D but the reason there is so much backlash is because Valve pulled a Peter Molyneux. If they had never made the promises about additional content for L4D1 they wouldn't be dealing with all this furor.

That is definitely part of the issue.  In fact, one could say Valve released an incomplete game with L4D1, one that they promised to not only finish via updates, but also substantlially improve via patches ala TF2.  They barely got around to finishing the game by the time the announced the sequel, and a lot of people (myself included) felt burned.

The issue was never so much of a lack of improvement via a sequel, but rather a lack of content in the first game to begin with.  You have to figure, the game launched with four short campaigns (~one hour each) and an incomplete Versus mode that was "finished" via patches a few weeks after release.  That's basically it.

I was rather annoyed by the whole ordeal, but once I got around to playing the L4D2 demo, I realized that there's no way I could not buy the game because it improves upon the first substantially, and the first was an absolute blast regardless of the dearth of content upon release.



vlad321 said:
mirgro said:
Squilliam said:
mirgro said:

Yes well true sequels are different. Look at Diablo and Diablo 2, Half-Life and Half-Life 2, Warcraft 2 and 3, UT99 and UT2004. Expansion packs in the mean time ARE same engine with leftover ideas but added new ones. So I'm fairly sure L4D2 falls in the land of expansion, not true sequel.

Gears of War 1/2 AND Unreal Tournament 3 use the same engine. So are they all just expansions of UT3?

Uncharted 1/2 use the same engine.

Modern Warfare 1/2 use the same engine.

Devil may cry 4, Lost Planet, Dead Rising and Resident Evil 5 use the same engine, are they all expansions?

Let's face it it's not limited to just the same engine, but the gameplay as well.

Of the ones I listed the game play is significantly different and I do mean significantly. What the HELL is the difference between GoW1 and 2? UC 1 and 2? Yeah... I thought so.... Instead of wasting their time with making more of the same developers should be innovating. Look at how long SC2 and Half-Life 3 are being made. That's how sequels SHOULD be, instead of this rehashing crap that most developers pull, even Valve now....

If you are also going to argue the whole "but they have improve graphics and gameplay" then please look at WoW, each expansion really changed gameplay, improved graphics, AND they had hell of a lot more content than any of the "sequels" you just mentioned.

Indeed, I miss the days when innovation was the only way to get above a 7. It seems only like yesterday when "Diablo Clones" or in fact any "X Clones" were graded down just because they copied and didnt innovate. Now it seems you can copy the same thing over and over and still make millions and garner tons of praise....

You just can't innovat as much on a console as you can on the PC. The hardware is locked and your control are limited, how can anyone expect innovatoin in such an environment? Add the lower standards of console gamers and you end up with a recipe of repeating games and milking from developers who don't deserve the money they are making.

Haha, yeah.

I remember when there were too many FPS games, and they'd get knocked and forgotten for being "Doom Clones."  But now every other week there are 5 more shooters and everybody goes "ooh ooh ooh this one's the Halo Killer!"  They're still Doom Clones to me.  I don't know how/why/when everybody made that switch though.



arcane_chaos said:
well I won't say if it's an expansion or not..but the feeling that MS said that Halo: ODST and Left for Dead 2 were going to be expansions but then turn out to be full retail priced games, then 360 fans trying to prove/justify that it's a full game/sequel seems odd to me. we don't fully know if MS and it's devolpers actaully added anything in to actaully make it a full retail price game, all we have are peoples "trusted opinions"

Show me where either Microsoft or Valve called Left 4 Dead 2 an expansion.



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