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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - If the 360 can't do graphics like the PS3, HOW can it do THIS?

2 discs helps. Also ease of development, good tools and support.



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deskpro2k3 said:

I find this to be very interesting. the whole graphic wars thingy.

 

WOW....thx for this vid bro I'm going to save it....you know just in case I encounter sum1 who needs to see factual evidence.



BladeOfGod said:
crumas2 said:
BladeOfGod said:


Dude, if you WANT to believe that U2 is better looking than any 360 game is an opinion that's fine by me. Whatever makes you sleep at night.

 

You fail to realize that graphic comparisons are not based on opinion

Most of the time graphic comparisons are little more than subjective.  There are so many variables that go into the final result that it usually takes a significant difference in quality to claim one game's visuals are clearly superior to another's.  I've heard people argue back and forth in threads, often comparing minutia in screen shots (which aren't even valid comparisons as frame-to-frame deltas can make a lot of difference in the final result), trying to point out how one image has better contrast, or shadows, or more details, or better color, or resolution, etc., etc.

It all boils down to how the end-user perceives the result, not what the technical aspects are of the elements.  I've seen paintings that look almost photo realistic, yet they're not considered to be as beautiful as a Rembrandt or a Monet.  You're dealing with consumers at the end, so which game has the best graphics will always be an opinion.

And I have to laugh at some of the responses to Selnor's post of Forza 3 video... I have to believe that some PS3 fans couldn't bring themselves to admit that the 360 is capable of graphics equal to anything created so far on the PS3, even if they were shown something that was completely photo-realistic.  My prediction is that a year from now some PS3 fan will take a look at Alan Wake video and proclaim, "yeah, right... Uncharted 1 blows that away."  

Even if thats true, KZ2 and U2 are still best beating every other game in all variables.

LOL... well, if you say so.



XxXProphecyXxX said:
deskpro2k3 said:

I find this to be very interesting. the whole graphic wars thingy.

 

WOW....thx for this vid bro I'm going to save it....you know just in case I encounter sum1 who needs to see factual evidence.

That's nice and all, but it still is no evidence for better graphics in games.. Such an image is simply read and output. No real-time rendering comes into play, and the graphics card is not stressed at all. The difference is that the PS3 outputs the image directly, and the X360 uses a scaler. The X360 wasn't designed to output 1080p. The first games didn't support it, but only 1080i. I think you all remember that. And the reason was that it wasn't strong enough for it anyway. Microsoft never pretended the X360 was powerful enough to do so, unlike Sony..

In any case, the PS3 is better at multi-media stuff, and that includes pictures. And besides that, you wouldn't notice the difference if you don't go up close to see the pixels on your tv, or you sit like 20 inches away.. However, the scaler of the X360 has been improved on the software side and they added 1080p support. This support has only been focused on games, so that games can upscale to 1080p, in better quality than the average tv. Images and other media are still put out in 720p or 1080i, and scaled to 1080p, thus you get what's been shown in the video. For games, neither the X360 nor the PS3 are powerful enough to render natively @ 1080p. That means, they both scale. In some games the PS3 doesn't scale to 1080p at all.. And since this topic is about RENDERING graphics, that test this guy did, is not relevant.. If you want relevance, go to the Face-Offs at Eurogamer..

 

BladeOfGod said:
NightAntilli said:

BladeOfGod said:
NightAntilli said:
It's still clear you understood NOTHING of what I said. Your games that "look" better does not mean the system is more powerful.. But never mind.. I don't even know why i expected you to understand.. You only keep repeating the same over and over again. Yet I've already said why that argument is not logical. Yet you keep going. It's like talking to a wall. Unless you have some REAL evidence that the PS3 system is more powerful for games, I ask you nicely to shut up. Your own point of view and lack of technical knowledge is not evidence...


WHERE DID I SAID ONE SYTSEM IS MORE POWERFULL THAN ANOTHER?????????????

What about here:

BladeOfGod said:

i will believe that 360 can do things like PS3 when i see the game on 360 that looks better than U2 and KZ2

 

And my answer to that is simply:

 

NightAntilli said:

And since when does two games, which is 0.36% of the total amount of games on the PS3 and 0.51% of its exclusives, determine that that system is more powerful than the X360?

I can also change the phrase to: And since when does two games, which is 0.36% of the total amount of games on the PS3 and 0.51% of its exclusives, determine that that system can do stuff that the X360 never could?

again, where did i said one system is more POWERFULL than the other???? All i said up there is that i will believe 360 has equal graphics like the PS3 wheh i see the game on 360 that looks better than KZ2 and U2.

Better graphics doesnt always means that the system is more powerfull (although in most cases it does)

Let me explain... You said, "i will believe that 360 can do things like PS3 when i see the game on 360 that looks better than U2 and KZ2". That means, you do not believe the X360 is able to put out graphics like the PS3 does. Until the X360 shows a game better than U2 or KZ2, you will believe that.. Now, what's so wrong with drawing the conclusion that you think the X360 can't keep up with the PS3 on graphical output aka graphical power? Note your last sentence which I discuss on the last paragraph in this post to support my conclusion.

For the next part: "All i said up there is that i will believe 360 has equal graphics like the PS3 wheh i see the game on 360 that looks better than KZ2 and U2." This might be nitpicky from my side but, when/if the X360 surpasses the PS3, then it is equal? That doesn't seem logical.. It seems you would never say the X360 could produce better graphics than the PS3, even if it happens.

And lastly: "Better graphics doesnt always means that the system is more powerfull (although in most cases it does)". Define graphics... If by graphics you mean, the image that is the most pleasant to your eyes, then it simply doesn't mean that system is more powerful. And in most cases it isn't so.. Let's take uncharted 2. Naughty Dog will probably NEVER program on the X360. We all know they are very talented programmers, because they are putting awesome graphics out of a relatively weak system (compared to a current gamer's PC or the power of current graphics cards). They put out a game that looks better than anything on the X360, but what most people forget is that it also looks better than anything on the PS3 itself. That means, they surpassed graphics on BOTH systems, not just the X360. The most logical conclusion to draw out of this is that they are very capable of optimizing for a specific system. Since they will never work/develop on the X360, there is no reference to which system is more powerful.. The closest we can get to it is when a new engine is made with both systems in mind, like CryEngine3, or Chrome Engine 4 etc. But then we instantly get the PS3 fanboys bragging about their exclusives, and saying multi-plats are not valid because the X360 holds the PS3 back, even when most games on the PS3 are inferior... See the stupidity? (I'm not calling you stupid, it's a general statement..) Whatever... But you can't use exclusives as a reference. Especially since the games on the X360 have a lack of dedicated engines, and games are also developed in a much shorter time on average..

 

I hope some people in these topics start to understand this because I'm getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over...



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X360 will outdo UC2 sometime and more Ps3 games aswell.



NightAntilli said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
deskpro2k3 said:

I find this to be very interesting. the whole graphic wars thingy.

 

WOW....thx for this vid bro I'm going to save it....you know just in case I encounter sum1 who needs to see factual evidence.

That's nice and all, but it still is no evidence for better graphics in games.. Such an image is simply read and output. No real-time rendering comes into play, and the graphics card is not stressed at all. The difference is that the PS3 outputs the image directly, and the X360 uses a scaler. The X360 wasn't designed to output 1080p. The first games didn't support it, but only 1080i. I think you all remember that. And the reason was that it wasn't strong enough for it anyway. Microsoft never pretended the X360 was powerful enough to do so, unlike Sony..

In any case, the PS3 is better at multi-media stuff, and that includes pictures. And besides that, you wouldn't notice the difference if you don't go up close to see the pixels on your tv, or you sit like 20 inches away.. However, the scaler of the X360 has been improved on the software side and they added 1080p support. This support has only been focused on games, so that games can upscale to 1080p, in better quality than the average tv. Images and other media are still put out in 720p or 1080i, and scaled to 1080p, thus you get what's been shown in the video. For games, neither the X360 nor the PS3 are powerful enough to render natively @ 1080p. That means, they both scale. In some games the PS3 doesn't scale to 1080p at all.. And since this topic is about RENDERING graphics, that test this guy did, is not relevant.. If you want relevance, go to the Face-Offs at Eurogamer..

 

BladeOfGod said:
NightAntilli said:

BladeOfGod said:
NightAntilli said:
It's still clear you understood NOTHING of what I said. Your games that "look" better does not mean the system is more powerful.. But never mind.. I don't even know why i expected you to understand.. You only keep repeating the same over and over again. Yet I've already said why that argument is not logical. Yet you keep going. It's like talking to a wall. Unless you have some REAL evidence that the PS3 system is more powerful for games, I ask you nicely to shut up. Your own point of view and lack of technical knowledge is not evidence...


WHERE DID I SAID ONE SYTSEM IS MORE POWERFULL THAN ANOTHER?????????????

What about here:

BladeOfGod said:

i will believe that 360 can do things like PS3 when i see the game on 360 that looks better than U2 and KZ2

 

And my answer to that is simply:

 

NightAntilli said:

And since when does two games, which is 0.36% of the total amount of games on the PS3 and 0.51% of its exclusives, determine that that system is more powerful than the X360?

I can also change the phrase to: And since when does two games, which is 0.36% of the total amount of games on the PS3 and 0.51% of its exclusives, determine that that system can do stuff that the X360 never could?

again, where did i said one system is more POWERFULL than the other???? All i said up there is that i will believe 360 has equal graphics like the PS3 wheh i see the game on 360 that looks better than KZ2 and U2.

Better graphics doesnt always means that the system is more powerfull (although in most cases it does)

Let me explain... You said, "i will believe that 360 can do things like PS3 when i see the game on 360 that looks better than U2 and KZ2". That means, you do not believe the X360 is able to put out graphics like the PS3 does. Until the X360 shows a game better than U2 or KZ2, you will believe that.. Now, what's so wrong with drawing the conclusion that you think the X360 can't keep up with the PS3 on graphical output aka graphical power? I do think 360 cant keep up with PS3 GRAPHICAL POWER FOR NOW.  Remember, better graphical power does not mean always mean system is more powerfull.  Note your last sentence which I discuss on the last paragraph in this post to support my conclusion.

For the next part: "All i said up there is that i will believe 360 has equal graphics like the PS3 wheh i see the game on 360 that looks better than KZ2 and U2." This might be nitpicky from my side but, when/if the X360 surpasses the PS3, then it is equal? That doesn't seem logical..360 is playing catch up with PS3 when it comes to graphics It seems you would never say the X360 could produce better graphics than the PS3, even if it happens.Not true

And lastly: "Better graphics doesnt always means that the system is more powerfull (although in most cases it does)". Define graphics... If by graphics you mean, the image that is the most pleasant to your eyes, then it simply doesn't mean that system is more powerful.EXACTLY And in most cases it isn't so.. Let's take uncharted 2. Naughty Dog will probably NEVER program on the X360. We all know they are very talented programmers, because they are putting awesome graphics out of a relatively weak system (compared to a current gamer's PC or the power of current graphics cards). They put out a game that looks better than anything on the X360, but what most people forget is that it also looks better than anything on the PS3 itself.Yes but they did it on PS3 That means, they surpassed graphics on BOTH systems, not just the X360. The most logical conclusion to draw out of this is that they are very capable of optimizing for a specific system. Since they will never work/develop on the X360, there is no reference to which system is more powerful..There are lots of other good developers who are developing games for 360. The closest we can get to it is when a new engine is made with both systems in mind, like CryEngine3, or Chrome Engine 4 etc. But then we instantly get the PS3 fanboys bragging about their exclusives, and saying multi-plats are not valid because the X360 holds the PS3 back, even when most games on the PS3 are inferior... See the stupidity? (I'm not calling you stupid, it's a general statement..) Whatever... But you can't use exclusives as a reference. Especially since the games on the X360 have a lack of dedicated engines, and games are also developed in a much shorter time on average..But its still easier and cheaper system to develop the games for

 

I hope some people in these topics start to understand this because I'm getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over...