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Forums - Gaming Discussion - David Jaffe hates his customers. Does not want used game sales to continue

Unless the game is no longer produced and/or extremely hard to find, I never buy used.

I have also never sold any games before this gen, when I sold Smash Bros. Brawl and Orange Box.


Also I was kind of amused in this thread because I read the entire argument between a few members here and the entire time I was saying to myself "Where is the malstrom reference?", "Where is the Nintendo is perfect reference?" and BAM!, I got both.



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ssj12 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
ssj12 said:

People don't return fantastic products Montana, a product that they love and does everything that they want doesn't get returned.  Greatness is subjective, you may find Mario Galaxy awesome, my mom probably wouldn't, she'd probably think its stupid, also why wasn't the person who didn't like shooters propely exposed to the game before they bought it?  Why weren't they educated on the game fully before buying, if they had been they wouldn't have bought it in the first place, see that's what you seem to be missing the publishers aren't educating people properly, so the argument that they shouldn't be punsihed for people's ignornace is falwed, if they did their job the consumers would not be ignorant.

People return fantastic products all the time. Like you said, quality is subjective. Just because one person doesn't like it, doesn't make it a bad product. A game like Super Mario Galaxy is still amazing no matter what your mom thinks about it. Why should Nintendo be punished because some people don't like it? Nintendo should be punished for releasing a fantastic product? Again, they can't appeal to everyone. They shouldn't lose money because of that. If we all lived in a perfect world and consumers were never ignorant, than we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Used games wouldn't exist. I know you probably don't know this (since you're a Nintendo fan), but there are these things called downloadable demos. There are demos you can download from online stores, demos you can play in stores, and demos you can buy with other games. Developers and publishers send review copies to be reviewed so you get a general idea of the game's quality. Publishers put brief descriptions of the gameplay and general workings of the game on the back of the box. What more do you what them to do? Your argument is flawed, because you believe developers should be punished no matter what a game is like. Look, if a person buy a games and returns it, the developer has already been punished. That person won't be buying any more of their products (most likely). By putting the game up for used, the developer loses another sale, which is just rubbing salt on the wound. That's what is not fair.

Its completely fair, the fact that my mom doesn't like it proves that its not a fantastic product, for her, its a fantastic product for you maybe.  Actually Nintendo realizes its their failure when they can't get people to keep games, Iwata already discussed this in an interview, one of the reasons Nintendo is doing so well, while people like Jaffe whine, they get it, its their job to make sure that people know what games they want and that the games continue to satisfy so no one sells it.  Demos are fine, but most people don't know how to get demos, so just having demos deson't educate consumers, you have to get them into the hands of the consumers and let them play, its a failure of the publisher and devs when the people aren't educated on the agmes, its a failure when they don't enjoy their experience or get bored after a time, its perfectly fair that they don't make any extra revenue, if they succeeded in educating the consumers and kept the consumers hooked the used games market would dry up.

How is it a developer or publisher's fault? Even if someone doesn't have the internet to research a game there are game magazines that cover games on all platforms.

 

Publishers exist to advertise and distribute products

Developers exist to make the products

Media exists to cover and release information on products created by developers and published by publishers

Retailers sell the products made by developers and publishers

Selling = supplying customers with information to better judge their purchases

 

I cannot reiterate this enough. Each part has its onlt specific roles to play. While publishers advertise their games, it is the media's job to take the information released and distribute it to the masses. Customers then can ressearch products online, reading up on products in magazines, or through taking with salesmen about the products. It is retailers, more specifically salesmen's, jobs to be the final informant for the customers. They control what content is bought by customers. We try to prevent M rated games being played by minors, we try to prevent customers from buying games they wil not like, and we try to info customers of as much information on a selected product as we can.

Ah, but then the publishers don't deserve any more of the pie then, if you're saying that its not their job to make sure the customer is satisfied wit the content they made, then they don't deserve any of the pie that results out of customer displeasure ith their content.  Sorry, but it is also the responsibility of the publisher and developer to make sure that customers know what game they are buying and are pleased by the final product, customers care about content, and what it does for them devs and publishers are responsible for the content and therefore have a role in making sure that the customer is pleased with the content.

 

Devs aren't there to produce what they want, they are there to produce what the customer wants



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

How you can blame publishers for uninformed consumers when the information is all out there for the consumers to find? If publishers were blocking information about their products from the public you might have a point, but when the information is out there and consumers just don't deem fit to educate themselves than that's the fault of the costumer, not the publisher.



...

Apparently, the consumers are mindless husks that can't make decisions for themselves. The publishers and developers are responsible for EVERYTHING. At least, that's the idea I'm getting. There's just no such thing as personal responsibility.



 

 

Hold on, is all this arguing about being "punished" when a customer returns a game, or resells it? Returning a game that has already been used doesn't sound right (for any product), but reselling it is an entirely different matter. Either way, it seems people have gotten off the real topic here.

If I decided I no longer wanted SSBB, and ended up reselling it, I'm not "punishing" Nintendo. I already paid for the game new, they already got my sale! It doesn't matter what my reasoning for parting with my copy is, whether I didn't like it, I got "tricked" into buying it, I got bored of it, or if I just needed extra money. It'd be no different than giving it away to a friend - do people consider this act punishing the developer, too?

To me, it sounds like people think that every time a game is played by a different person (or console?), the developer should be paid. How does that make sense? Why stop there? Why not charge every time the game is played? Instead of movie tickets, we'll have game tickets! It makes sense, with the way some single player games so closely resemble movies. Unfortunately, none of us would ever truly own a game, we'd always just be "borrowing" from the developers...

I don't know about everyone else here, but if I buy a game, I want to be able to do what I want with it. It's the same with music CD's, or DVD's - I should be able to lend it to my friends, keep it in my collection, or resell it if I wish. I couldn't say for sure if I'm in the majority or not, but I will say that if the industry tries to fight used game sales by screwing us over (like some here seem to have suggested), they will see resistance from us.



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You publish a game and I buy it.

Game now belongs to me, MY PROPERTY.

No dev, publisher or any other stealing son of a bitch is going to take a cut if i decide to sell.

People do realise that this isn't just aimed at retailers don't they? Gamestop first next stop Ebay.

I'm amazed at how many people think games shouldn't be resold.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

noname2200 said:
Cactus said:

No offense, but I think you totally misunderstood his stance on the issue. The thread title is false/misleading as well. Read Jaffe's posts in the Neogaf topic to get more of an idea of what he's trying to say.

Actually, I don't think he did misread it. I've read the NeoGAF thread, so I know full well how Jaffe's trying to cover himself in the mantle of being "pro-consumer" but "anti-corporation." His clarifications make it clear that he's either an idiot (quite possible) or he's lying to make himself look better (equally possible).

If I understand correctly, he's saying that the evil Gamestops of the world shouldn't be able to make such high profits off his work at resale, that they should be satisfied with the $5 margin that they get on new games (with next to zero price protection, mind you), but he's still okay with consumers reselling their games if they want. He obviously hasn't thought this through: if the real problem here is the evil reselling corporations costing him money, does he really think he'd be happier if Gamestop et. al. were cut out of the picture (meaning we consumers would pay less than just five dollars off for a new game)? Does it really strike him as a good thing if Gamestop were to suddenly reduce the price of their new games to more consumer-friendly levels, say, by buying your used game for $30 and reselling it for $35 instead of $55? He'd be okay with not getting a cut of that money, and with the fact that used games sales would increase dramatically?

I call bullshit.

He later says in that thread that he'd be okay if there was a legal moratorium on selling used games for the first one to three months after release. Awesome. What makes him think he has any right whatsoever to control my property (and remember, once I've bought a game, it's my property)? And how is this even remotely pro-consumer? The idea of selling your games is that the game was not good enough, from the consumer's perspective, so they're ditching it for something else. Jaffe would restrict this right, and he's deliberately picked an amount of time that would guarantee that you wouldn't recover much on your game at resale. I'd love to hear how this proposal is even remotely pro-consumer at all!

Kantor said:
Yeah, I think David Jaffe should die because he wants money from every sale of a game he spent loads of time and money developing. What an asshole!

 David Jaffe has made his money when you, the consumer, buy his game. What happens after that is none of his fucking business. DVDs, books, cars, homes, jewelry, and every other consumer good in the world has to obey the simple rule that the manufacturer only gets his money at the first sale, and what happens after that in the used goods market has nothing to do with him. What makes Jaffe and co. so special that they get to reach into other people's pockets twice (or more) for the same product?

That said, wanting the guy to die is probably going overboard.

dbot said:
 I agree with Munkeh, I dislike used games as well. Very few publishers/developers are able to make profits this generation and every sale counts. Rentals/used games hurt the industry as a whole. 

 For what it's worth, you're right about devs and publishers not making money, and needing to take every sale they can get.

Here's the thing: it's not my problem.

They made a business model in which they are unable to turn a profit despite record revenues. It's not my fault that they're starving in the garden of Eden: I (and hundreds of millions of other consumers worldwide) have already given them money. If they can't make do with what they have, they need to reconsider how they do business, not avariciously search for ways to defy the rules that have been in place for decades! It's not like it's impossible to operate under the modern environment: some companies are doing quite well, even VERY well. Jaffe comes out sounding like a whiner who either can't compete in the business environment, or a greedy SOB who wants more of our money. Either way, he gets no sympathy from me.

This can't be quoted enough, especially the second part. Bravo sir.



Fine, we'll just start renting more games!



I dont necessarily hate used games, but I hate GameStop. A lot.

I DO think that digital distribution is inevitable by next gen. Movies and videogames traditionally follow the path of music, and most music is ditributed digitially these days.



MontanaHatchet said:
Apparently, the consumers are mindless husks that can't make decisions for themselves. The publishers and developers are responsible for EVERYTHING. At least, that's the idea I'm getting. There's just no such thing as personal responsibility.


Sure their is, the consumer gets less money back then they spent, but that doesn't mean that the dev should get more money, they had a responsibility as well which they failed, hence they only got the initial sale, nothing more



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)