W29 said: The problem is that the cooling design of the 90-nanometer 360 doesn’t hold up. The cooling of the CPU was well done, with a heat pipe to draw the heat away from the chip (and accordingly, away from the mainboard). The problem is that the GPU and its low-profile heatsink sit under the DVD drive, and are given a very narrow channel for air to be pulled acrosss the heatsink by the fans. When the GPU heats up enough, not only does it reflow the solder in the ball grid array slightly, it can cause the entire mainboard to flex - a phenomenon largely caused by the X-shaped brackets that hold the heatsinks on under the mainboard. They hold the heatsinks down to the chips with a tension fit that presses up directly underneath those chips. So when the system gets too hot, the combination of loosened solder with a mainboard that flexes from heat causes the GPU or CPU to actually break its connection from the board - resulting in the 3 red lights and secondary error code 0102 (the “unknown hardware error” code).

Facts.  They're a refreshing change.

W29 said: The problem is that the cooling design of the 90-nanometer 360 doesn’t hold up. The cooling of the CPU was well done, with a heat pipe to draw the heat away from the chip (and accordingly, away from the mainboard). The problem is that the GPU and its low-profile heatsink sit under the DVD drive, and are given a very narrow channel for air to be pulled acrosss the heatsink by the fans. When the GPU heats up enough, not only does it reflow the solder in the ball grid array slightly, it can cause the entire mainboard to flex - a phenomenon largely caused by the X-shaped brackets that hold the heatsinks on under the mainboard. They hold the heatsinks down to the chips with a tension fit that presses up directly underneath those chips. So when the system gets too hot, the combination of loosened solder with a mainboard that flexes from heat causes the GPU or CPU to actually break its connection from the board - resulting in the 3 red lights and secondary error code 0102 (the “unknown hardware error” code).

Pretty excellent and unbiased description to what occurs when a 360 redrings kudos. The only thing I could possibly add to it is the solder that he mentioned is also a lead free solder (for good reason I don't fault MS on that) but unfortunately lead free solder tends to be more brittle add that on to the ball technique MS uses to attach the GPU to the board which puts it in an even more precarious and brittle situation. Thats part why I'm more curious on the Falcon onto if they changed the way the chip is soldered to the board or improved heat flow the 65 nm CPU is probably completely irrelevant to fixing the problems. Jaspers 65 nm gpu might help since it would actually significantly reduce the electricity consumption and therefore the heat output of the problem area of the console.

mrstickball said: Actually........If anyone enjoys reading..... The Falcon did fix the overheating problems. The overheating problems aren't entirely due to the system heating up. The problem is that it heats up, and with ultra-crappy thermal paste, the paste melts, and separates the GPU from the system. The Falcon has a much higher quality thermal paste, plus second heatsink. This rapidly reduces both the heat signature, and likelyhood that the thermal paste will separate from the system. So buy a X360 and have no worries....Given another few weeks, every unit will be a Falcon.

Read what? If you have a link showing that I'd be glad to read it but I'm not sorry to say given MS' track record and forum threads about "my new 360 died" continuing apace I'll have to wait for confirmation from a reputable source that Falcons don't RROD above accepted norms (3-6%) before considering buying one. I know there aren't many forum threads but given that only a handful of Falcons have been out there for a short time there shouldn't be any. Has anything been done about the disk scratching? @legend Too bad the hardware doesn't match the software in quality (actually it does for me).

I haven't seen any reports of the newer 360's RRODing yet. So where are people getting their facts? I saw someone complaining that his Halo 360 broke but it wasn't a Falcon.

@Goddbless

I haven't heard of anything either about the Falcon 360's having RRoD yet. I think its just fanboys that have one console that are finding ways to heat up the 360 and make it so it can have a RRoD.

Its predictable when Microsoft is trying to make their console reliable, there are trolls out there in the world that find ways to bring the 360 down.

ssj12 said: The RRODs are caused by the X Clamps and heat... i doub it will fix it unless it cuts the heat by more then 30 degrees.

The community's currently strongest belief is that they're caused by X clamps causing strain on the motherboard combined with GPU heat in specific. This fabrication upgrade could feasible decrease GPU heat by 30 degrees Fahrenheit because it would likely allow them to run at lower voltages also and decrease the ambient air temp in the 360 (due to the GPU producing significantly less heat).

Jasper would almost certainly decrease the % of units that fail within 12-18 months.

The somethingawful forum has a huge thread about 360 failures. These are primarily 360 fanboys, and they're reporting units manufactured within the last month are failing. This includes new HDMI premiums, elites, and newly manufactured replacement units sent from Microsoft (in leiu of refurbs). People are getting units off of store shelves and having failures within 2 weeks and many people have been reminding them that they can take the 360 back to stores within 30 days if they purchase from most retailers (but not gamestop which only allows 360 returns within 7 days).

It looks like the Falcon units are still failing, which is very disapponting for me personally because I wanted the falcon to be stable.

TheBigFatJ said: ssj12 said: The RRODs are caused by the X Clamps and heat... i doub it will fix it unless it cuts the heat by more then 30 degrees. The community's currently strongest belief is that they're caused by X clamps causing strain on the motherboard combined with GPU heat in specific. This fabrication upgrade could feasible decrease GPU heat by 30 degrees Fahrenheit because it would likely allow them to run at lower voltages also and decrease the ambient air temp in the 360 (due to the GPU producing significantly less heat). Jasper would almost certainly decrease the % of units that fail within 12-18 months. I haven't heard of anything either about the Falcon 360's having RRoD yet. I think its just fanboys that have one console that are finding ways to heat up the 360 and make it so it can have a RRoD. The somethingawful forum has a huge thread about 360 failures. These are primarily 360 fanboys, and they're reporting units manufactured within the last month are failing. This includes new HDMI premiums, elites, and newly manufactured replacement units sent from Microsoft (in leiu of refurbs). People are getting units off of store shelves and having failures within 2 weeks and many people have been reminding them that they can take the 360 back to stores within 30 days if they purchase from most retailers (but not gamestop which only allows 360 returns within 7 days). It looks like the Falcon units are still failing, which is very disapponting for me personally because I wanted the falcon to be stable.

Actually EBGames has a 30-day defective return policy. So if your 360 is a defect, you can exchange it for a new one if you want. Thats what happened to me. My Xbox 360 Premium died on me within 3 weeks and my 7 days expired. But I contacted EBGames and they said we can exchange defective game consoles within a 30-day period of purchase as long as you have the reciept. I did and I got an Xbox 360 Elite which is working like a beauty. No lock-ups or freezes. The discs are somewhat warm but the side of the system where the motherboard is resting on is cool as can be. The new heatsink did some new things to the Elite and its awesome.

I am still not sure why people are overly concerned by the phenomena. I am relatively sure that the failure rate has had to have gone down. Microsoft has done too many things to reduce the temperature in the unit. Further more you still have the three year warranty. Are you really that inconvenienced by a six week down time? The only reason you might feel that way is because you would be having an exceedingly high level of fun with the machine, and if that is the case why not buy the machine. You are depriving yourself of fun.

I don't know if anyone caught the pictures of the falcon board, but the X clamp is replaced by heavy duty screws. That combined with the secondary heat sink removing more heat probably means the RROD problem will be *signficantly* reduced. How significant? Time will tell but I bet they have it down close to average failure rate of electronic products overall...

I'm on a "second heat sink" unit but I don't think it is a Falcon. It is a late July manufacture. It is quiet and produces quite a bit less heat than my first unit. Note my first unit didn't RROD... The DVD drive failed.

For those on the fence, find a falcon with an HDMI and jump in. You have a 3 year warranty. You are missing out on some amazing games while you sit. Even though I was irritated with my 360's failure, I am still happy I bought it. Gears, Oblivion, Halo, PGR4, and so on are just mocking you as you sit on the sidelines...

kn said: I don't know if anyone caught the pictures of the falcon board, but the X clamp is replaced by heavy duty screws. That combined with the secondary heat sink removing more heat probably means the RROD problem will be *signficantly* reduced. How significant? Time will tell but I bet they have it down close to average failure rate of electronic products overall... I'm on a "second heat sink" unit but I don't think it is a Falcon. It is a late July manufacture. It is quiet and produces quite a bit less heat than my first unit. Note my first unit didn't RROD... The DVD drive failed. For those on the fence, find a falcon with an HDMI and jump in. You have a 3 year warranty. You are missing out on some amazing games while you sit. Even though I was irritated with my 360's failure, I am still happy I bought it. Gears, Oblivion, Halo, PGR4, and so on are just mocking you as you sit on the sidelines...

 what kind of failure ??? and what did they fix on your console ???