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Forums - Microsoft - Carmack: Rage runs faster on Xbox 360

Beta version is beta version. Im sure Killzone2 at some point ran at 20-30FPS... so did halo3 probably.



Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

owner of : atari 2600, commodore 64, NES,gameboy,atari lynx, genesis, saturn,neogeo,DC,PS2,GC,X360, Wii

5 THINGS I'd like to see before i knock out:

a. a AAA 3D sonic title

b. a nintendo developed game that has a "M rating"

c. redesgined PS controller

d. SEGA back in the console business

e. M$ out of the OS business

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CGI-Quality said:
Squilliam said:
CGI-Quality said:

Interesting. How are inFAMOUS and GTA IV's installs even comparable, one is 1gig, the other 4.5gigs. Again, how are they the same?

And also, when did I say a developer is lazy? I have a problem with people who try to insult something they don't favor on a constant basis. However, I can't stop them, so whatever.

That they exist. Sucker Punch could have called up Naughty Dog on the phone and aquired their streaming technology, and yet they still had an install. Uncharted is always given as a counter-example, and yet its a closed world linear game. However whenever an open world game comes out and theres a PS3 install, Uncharted is given as an example to prove the developers as lazy. Infamous is the example which validates the fact that PS3 games have installs for good reasons.

When did you imply lazyness? When you corrected Stan games ports. You wouldn't have corrected him if the word 'port' didn't have some meaning for you, and its always a negative when you say it from reading your posts in the past.

Wrong. I wouldn't have corrected him had he implied that sometimes PORTS don't turn out well. To me, that has nothing to do with laziness, it could have been that the team just didn't have a grip on the hardware, which nine times out of ten, is the case. As for the inFAMOUS install, I didn't have to wait nearly ten-fifteen minutes for it to install, that's the difference. And inFAMOUS STILL ran better than GTA IV, despite that huge install.

Again, they don't relate.

I was correcting you, the same 'issues' in the so called PS3 ports are evident in games created strictly for the PS3 and in games created seperated but equal for the PS3 and Xbox 360.

'Incompetence' is never an acceptable explanation with multiplatform games because these developers cannot simply code around inefficiencies or weaknesses in the console, often they have to develop in spite of them for the sake of a game to turn out good for both platforms. However even when the developers for exclusive projects have the ability to mitigate these problems they still show up in exclusive games. They are never called on them and im saying this again because theres no convenient Xbox 360 version to compare it to.

Infamous relates to GTA IV a lot more than Uncharted does, its the only comparable open world game and it requires an install. Where are the open world exclusive games which don't for example? Running better is a different story to requiring an install. You don't take a framerate hit when your textures fail to stream and Infamous still had pop-in.



Tease.

@squill

Are you trying to say that liner games runs better than open sandbox games?
well gears 2 has texture pop in and it's not even an open world game so....



Squilliam said:
CGI-Quality said:
Stan85 said:
^^ true,but really,there is no surprise.

The ps3`s CPU is hard to develop for,the memory is split and the GPU is an ols 7800 GTX.

Bluray is a plus,no disc swapping like the 360,but on only 2 dvd`s...it doesn`t bother me.

Many games ports play worse on the ps3 and well on the 360 (Fallout 3,Orange Box,etc).

This is old news.

Fixed. Games that take advantage of the hardware aren't plagued with these problems.

No, games that are made strictly for the PS3 often show similar flaws compared to PS3 ports but there isn't a convenient example to call them out for it. For example many PS3 games use 1/4 resolution particle buffers whereas the Xbox 360 games can use a full resolution particle buffer due to the ED-Ram. Examples are Killzone 2 and Motorstorm 2.

Notice how GT5 avoids the use of particles? Theres a very good reason for that.

 

1  how do you know the size of the PS3 game particle buffers used?

2. How do u know GT5 avoids particle effects?



Slimebeast said:
Squilliam said:
CGI-Quality said:
Stan85 said:
^^ true,but really,there is no surprise.

The ps3`s CPU is hard to develop for,the memory is split and the GPU is an ols 7800 GTX.

Bluray is a plus,no disc swapping like the 360,but on only 2 dvd`s...it doesn`t bother me.

Many games ports play worse on the ps3 and well on the 360 (Fallout 3,Orange Box,etc).

This is old news.

Fixed. Games that take advantage of the hardware aren't plagued with these problems.

No, games that are made strictly for the PS3 often show similar flaws compared to PS3 ports but there isn't a convenient example to call them out for it. For example many PS3 games use 1/4 resolution particle buffers whereas the Xbox 360 games can use a full resolution particle buffer due to the ED-Ram. Examples are Killzone 2 and Motorstorm 2.

Notice how GT5 avoids the use of particles? Theres a very good reason for that.

 

1  how do you know the size of the PS3 game particle buffers used?

2. How do u know GT5 avoids particle effects?

1. I've seen the pixelation first hand and the specific number came from the very smart minds at www.beyond3d.com/forum

2. Because I hardly saw any particles.



Tease.

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Squill, interesting. What was your point again?

j/k. Im gonna read the last page of this thread and the dialogue between u and CGI a lil bit more thorough now.



XxXProphecyXxX said:
@squill

Are you trying to say that liner games runs better than open sandbox games?
well gears 2 has texture pop in and it's not even an open world game so....

That's the nature of the UE3 engine.

UT3 has the same problems on all available platforms.



Squilliam,

You realize that particle system code varies widely from game engine to game engine, and that their usage in a product really has a lot more to do with that implementation than the hardware, yeah?

presumably, the only real hardware effects of the PS3 and the X360 on particle engines, in general, would be that a properly written engine on the PS3 could simulate many more particles than the 360, and a properly utilized engine on the 360 could spend more time doing particle fill and overdraw, assuming the pixel pipes were available for it.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.



 

Procrastinato said:
Squilliam,

You realize that particle system code varies widely from game engine to game engine, and that their usage in a product really has a lot more to do with that implementation than the hardware, yeah?

presumably, the only real hardware effects of the PS3 and the X360 on particle engines, in general, would be that a properly written engine on the PS3 could simulate many more particles than the 360, and a properly utilized engine on the 360 could spend more time doing particle fill and overdraw, assuming the pixel pipes were available for it.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Everyone is a processor expert on this forum, aren't they?




i keep reading how devs are learning how to program the ps3. people its been what 3 yrs since the ps3 has been out i think they would have learned by now. besides i get the game informer mag. and he clearly stated that the the 360 version was easier to develop for. and he also said the game was gonna be 2 disc unlike doom 4 that was gonna be 3...