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Forums - Microsoft - Carmack: Rage runs faster on Xbox 360

RAZurrection on 31 July 2009
Darc Requiem said:
My best friend pointed out something that I think has been missed. Carmack prefers OpenGL. He doesn't use Direct X. If anything, you'd think he would have an easier time getting an engine running well on PS3. I'm sure the gap will close by the time the game is released.

Jons primary preference of OpenGL over DirectX is because it's free which is fine, but he's also acknowledged that Microsoft created the best development environment he's ever seen in the Xbox 360, maybe he'd sing a different tune if DirectX was as open source as GL, but it's not.



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Slimebeast on 31 July 2009
Arekhon said:

Obviously almost noone noticed the second half of what Carmack said:

"He is, however, confident that the PS3 version will match that of all other supported platforms: “Everything is designed as a 60 hertz game. We expect this to be 60 hertz on every supported platform.”

“The work remaining is getting it locked so there’s never a dropped frame or a tear, but we’re confident that we’re going to get that.”"

http://www.edge-online.com/news/carmack-ps3-performance-lags-behind-360

So, we'll have to see what the game will look like when it's done, not what it looks like in it's current development state.


Why is it so important to get the framerate 'locked'? What does it matter if it drops from 60 fps to say 50 fps from time to time?



HappySqurriel on 31 July 2009
RAZurrection said:
Darc Requiem said:
My best friend pointed out something that I think has been missed. Carmack prefers OpenGL. He doesn't use Direct X. If anything, you'd think he would have an easier time getting an engine running well on PS3. I'm sure the gap will close by the time the game is released.

Jons primary preference of OpenGL over DirectX is because it's free which is fine, but he's also acknowledged that Microsoft created the best development environment he's ever seen in the Xbox 360, maybe he'd sing a different tune if DirectX was as open source as GL, but it's not.

I thought his preference of OpenGL died after the Quake 3 engine primarily because the feature set of OpenGL didn't evolve as quickly as DirectX and DirectX was more of a full featured API while OpenGL was primarily a 3D graphics API? Beyond that, I thought he really disliked how low performance Direct3D was in DirectX 7, but that he was happier with DirectX 8 and 9 because they made huge leaps in improving overal performance of the API?

 



WereKitten on 31 July 2009
HappySqurriel said:
RAZurrection said:
Darc Requiem said:
My best friend pointed out something that I think has been missed. Carmack prefers OpenGL. He doesn't use Direct X. If anything, you'd think he would have an easier time getting an engine running well on PS3. I'm sure the gap will close by the time the game is released.

Jons primary preference of OpenGL over DirectX is because it's free which is fine, but he's also acknowledged that Microsoft created the best development environment he's ever seen in the Xbox 360, maybe he'd sing a different tune if DirectX was as open source as GL, but it's not.

I thought his preference of OpenGL died after the Quake 3 engine primarily because the feature set of OpenGL didn't evolve as quickly as DirectX and DirectX was more of a full featured API while OpenGL was primarily a 3D graphics API? Beyond that, I thought he really disliked how low performance Direct3D was in DirectX 7, but that he was happier with DirectX 8 and 9 because they made huge leaps in improving overal performance of the API?

 

Doom 3 / Quake Wars used Id's tech 4 which was still OpenGL based. Tech 5 will have both backends available, apparently, and I remeber Carmack saying in an interview that the actual library used is little more than an implementation detail, easily pluggable. I suppose that the real wizardry in tech 5 happens somewhere else, because I have no idea how the megatexture thing is supposed to work.

And @RAZurrection:

OpenGL is no more "open source" than DirectX, because there's no such thing as "the OpenGL code". OpenGL is a specification, of which many implementations exist. Some are purely software (like the Mesa library), others use hardware acceleration, like any nVidia/ATI drivers. In the same way the DirectX specifications must be implemented by the GPU drivers, or a software layer can even convert DirectX calls to OpenGL calls like in WINE.

Carmack's distaste for Direct3D in the past came simply from the fact that it used to be a horrible API, while OpenGL was always lauded for its clarity and coherence. Sadly, OpenGL got more garbled with time while Direct3D improved.



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monlosez on 31 July 2009

Looks like a good game from iD. iD invented PC gaming :)



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welshbloke on 01 August 2009
Arekhon said:

Obviously almost noone noticed the second half of what Carmack said:

"He is, however, confident that the PS3 version will match that of all other supported platforms: “Everything is designed as a 60 hertz game. We expect this to be 60 hertz on every supported platform.”

“The work remaining is getting it locked so there’s never a dropped frame or a tear, but we’re confident that we’re going to get that.”"

http://www.edge-online.com/news/carmack-ps3-performance-lags-behind-360

So, we'll have to see what the game will look like when it's done, not what it looks like in it's current development state.


I am sure they saw it but ignored it in favour of the more glamerous headline.



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welshbloke on 01 August 2009
Hephaestos said:
(PC for me... 360 is gonna be a bit old when this comes out).


Not sure I understand that reasoning. It will run well on an optimised 360 no matter what its age. The PC will almost certainly require a certain amount of more modern beef to make this game more respectable. I understand if the PC is your preferred platform for this type of game just do not see the age bit.



W.L.B.B. Member, Portsmouth Branch.

(Welsh(Folk) Living Beyond Borders)

Winner of the 2010 VGC Holiday sales prediction thread with an Average 1.6% accuracy rating. I am indeed awesome.

Kinect as seen by PS3 owners ...if you can pick at it   ...post it ... Did I mention the 360 was black and Shinny? Keeping Sigs obscure since 2007, Passed by the Sig police 5July10.
Reasonable on 01 August 2009
Arekhon said:

Obviously almost noone noticed the second half of what Carmack said:

"He is, however, confident that the PS3 version will match that of all other supported platforms: “Everything is designed as a 60 hertz game. We expect this to be 60 hertz on every supported platform.”

“The work remaining is getting it locked so there’s never a dropped frame or a tear, but we’re confident that we’re going to get that.”"

http://www.edge-online.com/news/carmack-ps3-performance-lags-behind-360

So, we'll have to see what the game will look like when it's done, not what it looks like in it's current development state.

Yah, I saw that.  In my original comment I was noting it was a little disappointing that at this stage while the PC/360 side of the engine was fine the PS3 required work.  I'm still confident that id will get the code where it has to be.  In the end the PS3 architecture represents something less familiar for Carmack and the team than 360 or PC - but I'm sure they'll get fully to grips with it before release.

Depending on specs I might get it on PC anyway, as I tend to put id games with Valve titles as being best on PC, but we'll see.

 



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Pristine20 on 01 August 2009

lol, I always find it strange when a developer says one version of their game is better than the other in a published interview. It's like telling owners of "x" console that you are giving them an inferior experience for the same price. How's that for advertising? It's one thing for edge to do this but Carmack himself? Well good luck selling Rage on ps3.



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Slimebeast on 01 August 2009
Pristine20 said:

lol, I always find it strange when a developer says one version of their game is better than the other in a published interview. It's like telling owners of "x" console that you are giving them an inferior experience for the same price. How's that for advertising? It's one thing for edge to do this but Carmack himself? Well good luck selling Rage on ps3.


You are flaming him for just being honest.