DMeisterJ said: Mainstream, Mainstream, Mainstream. This console was not made for the mainstream.

Well then if you accept the fact it's not mainstream, you'll have to accept the fact that it won't sell to that much people. No big sales=less games and less exclusives. No big sales is also=less money for the company. Which is not good for them, so quit thinking only of yourself and see the big picture!

lolita said: DMeisterJ said: Mainstream, Mainstream, Mainstream. This console was not made for the mainstream. Well then if you accept the fact it's not mainstream, you'll have to accept the fact that it won't sell to that much people. No big sales=less games and less exclusives. No big sales is also=less money for the company. Which is not good for them, so quit thinking only of yourself and see the big picture!

Ummm... if you're gonna quote me, don't misquote me.  The sentence didn't end after mainstream, it said more after that.  I said it was made for people who already had the PS2 and don't care too much for B/C on their PS3.  Don't misquote me or only take half of my sentence to make me seem like I'm saying something I'm not.  I never said it wasn't mainstream, I said it wasn't made for the mainstream first.  Second, it will sell, like I said, among people like me who don't care that it doesn't have B/C and can accept the price drop.  Big sales will happen when people see what a deal a next gen system+Next gen DVD Player is and what they can get out of it, especially when better games (R&C: TOD, Uncharted, MGSIV, FFXIII, XIII Versus, GT5, Haze, UT3, etc.) come out.

lolita said: DMeisterJ said: Mainstream, Mainstream, Mainstream. This console was not made for the mainstream. Well then if you accept the fact it's not mainstream, you'll have to accept the fact that it won't sell to that much people. No big sales=less games and less exclusives. No big sales is also=less money for the company. Which is not good for them, so quit thinking only of yourself and see the big picture!

 Really??!!!?!?!?  You believe Sony shouldn't make a great machine that may be a little ahead of its time, then as time goes on, it becomes mainstream. The PS3 wont sell to poor people as of now, those people will say anything to justify not being poor. You should take your own advise and consider the whole picture, which is that Sony has the PS2, PSP, and PS3.

$400 is still expensive, yes. But not for a PS3 

DMeisterJ said: lolita said: DMeisterJ said: Mainstream, Mainstream, Mainstream. This console was not made for the mainstream. Well then if you accept the fact it's not mainstream, you'll have to accept the fact that it won't sell to that much people. No big sales=less games and less exclusives. No big sales is also=less money for the company. Which is not good for them, so quit thinking only of yourself and see the big picture! Ummm... if you're gonna quote me, don't misquote me.  The sentence didn't end after mainstream, it said more after that.  I said it was made for people who already had the PS2 and don't care too much for B/C on their PS3.  Don't misquote me or only take half of my sentence to make me seem like I'm saying something I'm not.  I never said it wasn't mainstream, I said it wasn't made for the mainstream first.  Second, it will sell, like I said, among people like me who don't care that it doesn't have B/C and can accept the price drop.  Big sales will happen when people see what a deal a next gen system+Next gen DVD Player is and what they can get out of it, especially when better games (R&C: TOD, Uncharted, MGSIV, FFXIII, XIII Versus, GT5, Haze, UT3, etc.) come out.

So who are the "big sales" with people who figure out what a "great deal" the 40gb is? Really, please clarify what you mean by big sales - numbers, % increase, vs 360/wii.

I can say I expect the PS2 to have big sales this season. Now, compared to PS2 sales previous years it wont be that great, but compared to the GC and Xbox, it'll be "bigger sales" than almost any other console in history.

DMeisterJ said: W29 said: DMeisterJ said: If you think 400 is still too much for the PS3, then you need to not play video games anymore. You must not know that between the price of $100 to $200 is the mainstream sweet price. And when your comparing consoles with other consoles the consumer and sometimes early adopters go after the cheapest console. Wii is the prime example, its cheap and affordable. The PS3 is $400 that is still rather expensive. And if your expecting the mainstream audience to pick up on a $400 console. Then your crazy, they will more likely go after the Wii or the Xbox 360 Arcade bundle. PS3 still has some problems. Now if the 360 only had the Elite then it would be some comparing but the PS3 has no chance against the Wii even. Good luck Sony. Happy mainstream audience hunting!   Mainstream, Mainstream, Mainstream. This console was not made for the mainstream It was made for people who might not care about bc (like me) who either already have a PS2 or am through playing PS2 games. I don't have a PS2 anyomore but I don't have any more PS2 game I want to play. I really don't play games over again and again so the bc doesn't mean anything to me. The title worth playing on the PS2 I have played and have no feeling to play them again. $400 is not that expensive. XBOTS need to understand that the 360 was that price not six weeks ago. and the elite is still that price. and I'm not saying blu-ray is gonna beat HD-DVD but the fact that it has a blue ray player will definetly resonate with gamers and the general public who may want both and see the 400 price point. I mean, this system was 600 eleven months ago so I believe that sony is doing all that it can do to get the price down while trying to kepp profits afloat. maybe people like you won't be pleased until it is free... Who knows but four hundred was the sweet spot for ten million plus gamers who bought the 360 so maybe it'll be the sweet spot for some future PS3 owners. concerning the 360 arcade bundle. it is still not a deal. you get a memory card (512 I think?) and five arcade games. Wow... that's great. You can't save any demos, any movies or videos. So the whole marketplace makes no point for that price. So you go out and buy a ridiculously overprice propietary hard drive for 100 (20 gigs) or 180 (120 gigs) and then you're at $400 dollars. At least with the low end PS3, it retains all the functionality of it's big brother (Flash card reader's aside) and you get the same gaming experience.

I have a full-time job, a small biz and love gaming, but $400 for a load of potential isn't worth it to me. And add to the fact it is missing features - like BC, which I do use a lot - I'll never buy one without BC. And for the price of a 360 ($349), you get a HD, HDMI outputs and a great library of games. For the PS3? Not so much.

The biggest thing about the arcade and core 360? It gives gamers a choice without pawning an arm and leg. Just like some poster stated earlier about all the extras you get with a PS3. Memo to SONY - let ME CHOOSE what I WANT. I am paying MY MONEY, so ... I want to be happy with what I pay for. I want to choose between buying an Elite or just the Core. Let me add a HD later, if I want. Let me add wifi later, if I want (and I don't). Let me add features, especially if it's tough for me to swing buying an Elite. But don't just close the party to the low-end gamers. They are consumers, too. They want to game, but making them decide between rent and buying a PS3 ... well ... some chose the PS3. And ... the $399 PS3 will have limited appeal. I would rather have a 20gb PS3 without wifi than have a gimped 40gb PS3 that shouldn't be called a Playstation.

Time will tell, but mark my words - this puppy is gonna flop like a 200lb catfish out of a water ...  

ultraslick said: lolita said: DMeisterJ said: Mainstream, Mainstream, Mainstream. This console was not made for the mainstream. Well then if you accept the fact it's not mainstream, you'll have to accept the fact that it won't sell to that much people. No big sales=less games and less exclusives. No big sales is also=less money for the company. Which is not good for them, so quit thinking only of yourself and see the big picture!  Really??!!!?!?!?  You believe Sony shouldn't make a great machine that may be a little ahead of its time, then as time goes on, it becomes mainstream. The PS3 wont sell to poor people as of now, those people will say anything to justify not being poor. You should take your own advise and consider the whole picture, which is that Sony has the PS2, PSP, and PS3. $400 is still expensive, yes. But not for a PS3

Once again Sony fans just don't get it ...

Sony decides to build a system that is a little ahead of its time, so it sells poorly because it is too expensive, loses marketshare, loses exclusive and multiplatform content, which in turn causes lower interest and slower sales ... All so that they could release a system which is far less powerful than a gaming PC, where its performance advantage over the XBox 360 and Wii is going to be ignored by everyone except for techno-geeks on webforums, and the system will likely be remembered as one of the biggest mistakes in console gaming ever.

If people actually cared about processing power the PS2 would have been killed by the Gamecube or XBox, the Playstation would have been killed by the N64, the SNES would have been killed by the NeoGeo and the NES would have been killed by the Genesis.

ultraslick said: lolita said: DMeisterJ said: Mainstream, Mainstream, Mainstream. This console was not made for the mainstream. Well then if you accept the fact it's not mainstream, you'll have to accept the fact that it won't sell to that much people. No big sales=less games and less exclusives. No big sales is also=less money for the company. Which is not good for them, so quit thinking only of yourself and see the big picture! Really??!!!?!?!? You believe Sony shouldn't make a great machine that may be a little ahead of its time, then as time goes on, it becomes mainstream. The PS3 wont sell to poor people as of now, those people will say anything to justify not being poor. You should take your own advise and consider the whole picture, which is that Sony has the PS2, PSP, and PS3. $400 is still expensive, yes. But not for a PS3

Then, why if the PS3 is time proof the sales show how the mainstream users doesn't want a $600/$500 game machine, if the PS3 is proof time why should they launch crippled version at $400???

The market is not driven by the tecnophiles and you know it, the market is driven by the mainstream, by the guys who buy a console for less than $200 just to put mod chip and play tons of games with almost no cost, they don't care about BR, HD, online, or anything like that, they just want a cheap machine with great games... thats all... thats why $400 is expensive for mainstream market, because they see just a game machine...

We are looking at Sony's actions, were are seeing how the $600/$500 multimedia machine strategy simply is not working, no matter what does it offer to the consumer, is expensive, and probably the $400 version wont make a difference at all...

ultraslick said: The PS3 wont sell to poor people as of now, those people will say anything to justify not being poor.

Those poor bastards. Problem is, they make most of the market. Actually, by your standards, most of the world... sorry, most of the developed world, is composed of those poor, poor people.

You know what most of the world is composed of too? Stupid people. They don't know what a Bluray is, even if they already own a PS3. They never knew any of their previous console toys could play movies, actually. Also, they wouldn't connect them to the internet - wireless or not. Heck, they won't even connect them to their TVs the right way, since they have absolutely no clue about HD. Doubt me? Search the forums for an article (I believe from Nielsen) with statistics like those for the present day, early-adopting owners of the PS3.

Now, we could all be elitist pricks and pretend poor people and stupid people don't matter at all. That all that does matter is people crazy enough about gaming to come to a gaming forum discuss it (that, and spend the better half of a grand a year in gaming). Even between those forum goers, you'll find quite a few that are poor by your standards (by not spending a grand a year), and some that are pretty much uninformed about all the "value" in a PS3 (must I name Linux and count heads?).

Except those "stupid", "poor" people bought 100 million PS2s - minimum.

I had no idea that my PS3 could play my PS2 games until yesterday. If they sold a 40 gig PS3 at $400 with no BC when I bought my 60 gig, I would have bought the 40 gig. I have a PS2 so BC doesn't matter to me.

Yes $400 is alot of money for a game console, but for a PS3 its cheap.

DMeisterJ said: lolita said: DMeisterJ said: Mainstream, Mainstream, Mainstream. This console was not made for the mainstream. Well then if you accept the fact it's not mainstream, you'll have to accept the fact that it won't sell to that much people. No big sales=less games and less exclusives. No big sales is also=less money for the company. Which is not good for them, so quit thinking only of yourself and see the big picture! Ummm... if you're gonna quote me, don't misquote me.  The sentence didn't end after mainstream, it said more after that.  I said it was made for people who already had the PS2 and don't care too much for B/C on their PS3.  Don't misquote me or only take half of my sentence to make me seem like I'm saying something I'm not.  I never said it wasn't mainstream, I said it wasn't made for the mainstream first.  Second, it will sell, like I said, among people like me who don't care that it doesn't have B/C and can accept the price drop.  Big sales will happen when people see what a deal a next gen system+Next gen DVD Player is and what they can get out of it, especially when better games (R&C: TOD, Uncharted, MGSIV, FFXIII, XIII Versus, GT5, Haze, UT3, etc.) come out.

I don't see a single line in your previous post saying PS3 is mainstream, and see your first line, it sais clearly that it wasn't made for the mainstream.

People you describe aren't mainstream, so it doesn't make the console mainstream. You'll have to learn that they are were the market and money is. Besides, I decided to quote only that part because it showed well how you think this whole business works.

Other stuff you said are also very flawed. Like Sony trying to keep the price as low as possible without loosing profit, well they are loosing profit already. They're quite desperate to push an over priced media format, that doesn't even do much of a difference, on people and it doesn't work.

People usually don't buy as much games as we do, they have better stuff to do with their cash. Many people bought the PS2 and most people wouldn't get rid of their games so easily especially when they spent all that money. So BC is a good thing that the 400$ model lacks.

Also those better games... Are they the only ones coming out? I keep hearing those names over and over again. Those aren't reason enough for most people to buy the PS3.

So to resume all I said, if only people like you buy the PS3, it won't work very well, and that's the mistake Sony made. General puplic won't accept something pricey like this. I'm not saying this to be free but 400$ sure won't work. So in conclusion, 400$ is too pricey and it won't work very well, that's what I predict.