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Forums - Nintendo - What's Wrong with The Legend of Zelda? Part1 - Overworld

puffy said:
Asriel said:

Wait until more is known about Zelda Wii until you claim the franchise is stagnant and will wither and die slowly. Nintendo reinvent their major franchises to make them innovative and relevant.

I'd like this more if Miyamoto and Aonuma hadn't already said they want to change the franchise because they feel it went as far as it could under the OOT style template. They already know things need changing, as much as I like the intent of your thread, the series producer/director are very much ahead of you.

 

EDIT- On the subjet of overworlds in Zelda, I agree that TP's felt empty. The sense of scale and the design was great, but nothing much happened in it. And for all of Beadle's shop boats in Wind Waker, most of that was empty blue ocean.

I agree with the bolded but can you give a link to when Miyamoto or Aonuma said they wanted to change the franchise from the OoT template?

And your edit.. Games are about the feel, do you expect to have more things happening in a field of a kingdom or a sea? the fact that Wind Waker had a vast sea gave a different feel because anything could have jumped out of the water at any time and on many occations, that's exactly what happened. Exploring a vast sea makes the player feel good when they find a little island or a pirate ship or a trail of rupees appearing with barrels floating up. Having to go to each part of the sea for a new map section.. It all adds up to the experience of sailing whereas Hyrule Field and the general Hyrule layout including the stupid and dated over head view of Castle Town, another squandered opportunity to have the player feel part of a bustling town.. It just didn't work for the design..

I agree with what you said about Castle Town-the fixed camera angles were a disappointment to me. But Wind Waker also only had one 'true' town-granted Windfall Island was great, but it's a shame there weren't a couple of islands like it. As for the great feeling sailing the ocean and then find trails of rupees or whatever-that's subjective, the feeling it gives the player. Personally it was hit and miss for me.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3171009

That's one example of Miyamoto wanting a newer and fresher Zelda. This is from 05, but I remember him expressing these sentiments again in 2007:

http://palgn.com.au/nintendo-wii/3018/miyamoto-discusses-new-directions-for-mario-and-zelda/


"Please allow me to interrupt you by saying that you will have to be patient, really. This [Twilight Princess] will be, without a doubt, the last Zelda game as you know it in its present form. I worked on it personally, moreso than Wind Waker! I haven't invested as much into any game as I have this one. Our goal was to make the best Zelda game ever. The most rich/satisfying and melancholy. We've really improved it in just a few months. Everything's coming together much quicker. We may have some last minute ideas... "

That's the important part. It doesn't mention the OOT template-that may have been in an interview from early 07 I remember reading after Miyamoto expressed disappointment at TP's Japanese sales, but I don't have the time to look for it right now.


However, "current form" does strongly suggest changes to the structure of the game. Phantom Hourglass was an example of changes to the structure of the games-the Temple of the Ocean King and the latter half dungeons which you could do in any order.

I don't think differences in the franchise will come in terms of style, but in terms of structure. That's mostly speculation on my part, though, based on interviews such as the above.

Further foraging and rummaging has revealed Miyamoto may have changed his mind, there's some interesting Galaxy 2 tidbits in this too: http://videogamesrepublic.com/?p=5805

Of course, was 'radically different' means is anyones guess. It seems to be aimed at speculation about the role of the Master Sword in the game. And that's all I have time for!



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ZZetaAlec said:
Complaining that the overworld in TP was empty...it's just so obvious of a complaint that it's pretty much redundant, clearly written by someone who has an over-inflated ego and wants to appear smart and 'objective'.

What's with the angry reaction? I know it's obvious but I am expecting opinions and comments instead of just attacking. I know you like the Zelda series as much as I do. I am just stating what I see needs to change to improve the game



There is always something...



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ZenfoldorVGI said:

I disagree. Why not flame SotC as well, for having not a single enemy outside bosses(and it also has a huge overworld)? I think the overworld has less enemies for the same reason. It adds atmosphere, when you're making that last ditch hero ride to save your friends.

SotC and Legend of Zelda have different story development. In SotC you, as the hero, are on a quest to hunt down and kill the colossus in order to save the one you love. The story does not mention a world opressed by the evil that is destroying and conquering everything, so the story develops around the colossus and the no enemy encounter is reasonable.

On Legend of Zelda, If the main villain is Ganon (or any of his followers), there is a reason to have enemies in the main field to ensure that the hero does not complete the quest. Ganon's wish is to conquer Hyrule by all means necessary.



^SotC also takes place in a cursed and forbidden land. I don't think I'd see many other people there.

LoZ you are saving a kingdom full of people. I kinda expect to see them.



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I agree that the overworld needs more stuff to do. I don't think its fair to compare Shadow of the Colossus (where there literally was nothing but expansive and beautiful land between bosses) to Zelda as the feel of the games is completely different to me. Zelda is a populated world with towns and villages. In SotC you play someone entering a forbidden land where no-one is supposed to go out in the middle of nowhere.

Like any game, Zelda has a list of faults even if the games are brilliant. I also agree that it needs a little more re-invention but I believe Nintendo are doing this with the next Wii iteration. Strangely, my biggest complaint about Zelda is that it's become too formulaic. The basic formula seems to remain constant (although the formula works, its becomming overused):

1. Start- village- get items (sword/shield etc.)
2. Dungeon: Defeat sub-boss (obtain item), use item to gain access to remainder of dungeon & defeat boss
3. Use item to gain access to areas in Overworld/Change in overworld opening to new area with dungeon
4. Repeat 2 & 3 'n' times
5. Amazingly epic boss battle & End

I don't think they need to completely overhaul the formula, just add a bit more variety to it. I think the main reason its stayed this way is partly because the formula works, but also that the most hardcore Zelda fans would probably act as if Nintendo had commited genocide.



"Huge, but Rather Empty, Overworld"

The same with Shadow of The Colossus.



i was thinking that too. Zelda's overworld is huge, but there's letf more enemys, people, animals...



MY ZELDA COLLECTION
the_bloodwalker said:
ZZetaAlec said:
Complaining that the overworld in TP was empty...it's just so obvious of a complaint that it's pretty much redundant, clearly written by someone who has an over-inflated ego and wants to appear smart and 'objective'.

What's with the angry reaction? I know it's obvious but I am expecting opinions and comments instead of just attacking. I know you like the Zelda series as much as I do. I am just stating what I see needs to change to improve the game

Oh it's your blog? Then I apologise for my behaviour. I'm not disagreeing with you, your main point is spot on It's just that I however find the fact that your commenting on a flaw that has been criticized since the games release to be somewhat pointless. I also think that the franchise needs to evolve and move away from the formula that OoT created however I have always felt that a blog is the wrong place to make points on the series' future. Many times I have seen such blog entries which also make statments on flaws of previous games and then proceed to list possible suggestions for future games so that they may improve on them.

There is nothing wrong with this in and of it'self, however the problem I have with this approach is that because the franchise is so special to people and each player has different things which they find appealing about the series, it neglects others opinions and often comes across as little more than 'Nintendo should do THIS, and if they can't do THIS then they have failed'. Granted your blog is noway near the levels of biggotry you will find on other blogs, however with a title like 'What's Wrong with The Legend of Zelda?' it just seems like a very one-sided artical which disregards the fandom as a whole. I would be more than willing to discuss the flaws of the franchise, possible means to correct them and the further evolution of the series, but as I said it should be a discussion, not a one-way series of statments drawn from a single person's own opinions.



I think the Wind waker's overworld was much better than most zelda games



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