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Forums - Sony Discussion - Destructoid: Sony needs to STFU

Kantor said:
Xbot said:
its been three years and ps3 stil hasn't blown us away in graphics. the differences are minimal. did not live up to the hype.

The fact remains that Killzone 2 is the best looking game ever released on a console, and the 360 has nothing that comes close (except Gears of War 2)

The fact remains that Killzone 2 is Niche



 



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perpride said:
Aiemond - Have you once looked at Activision games sell on Sony platforms? Do you even know that he was not just talking about PS3? He was talking about dropping all support for Sony platforms. Have you once looked at how third party published games sell on the Wii? On PS3? How about the two in comparison? The gap is nowhere near how big it was back in the PS2 days. Have you ever seen the sales for Activision games on PS3? OK...I thought not.....do that...and then tell me how dreadful Sony's third place console is doing. Pretty damn god for last place if you ask me.

PS3 exclusives are going to 360 because of Wii's success. That's it. And it is not a one way damn road. Look at how many 360 exclusives have come to PS3 and then tell me that third parties are running from PS3. It sounds like you are still in early 2007 my friend. 360's highest rated exclusive EVER, Bioshock (and its forthcoming sequel), have now come/are headed to PS3. Eternal Sonata, Dead Rising 2, Lost Planet, Ninja Gaiden 2 and Tales of Vesperia are several other examples that pop straight into my mind.

Activision not developing for Sony would be a dumbfuck move on Activision's part, especially since they already have people that know how to develop for PS3 and have already put out so many games. Don't call me a fanboy then stand up for every piece of shit that is written against Sony.

Look, I said that he was under pressure to get ps3 titles to sell better and has enough leverage that he can get away with it.. That's why he made the comment. They would only do this is they thought the cost for porting these games excede the amount of profit they could get by allocating these funds to a different project, such as map packs, wow expansions, etc. IMO they would have to have lower sales then they do now for a port not to be economical. The exception to this rule is niche games that will sell low amounts either way. Niche games are the types that benifit from being on only one console. Now, if the ps3 had a very bad holiday season again and software sales declined then they would have a reason to pull support. Again, this is what happened to the GC. As for your comment on how the gap is not as big as it was during the ps2 days that just means that MS has had a far better generation and sony has had a far worse one. 

 

You want me to tell you how dreadful the ps3 is doing? Ok.

It performed FAR below expectations.

It continues to lose money for every unit sold even at $400.

It caused Sony to go from a very very large lead during the ps2 generation to the LAST place console this generation.

It lost brand power for the Playstation name. 

It lost, so far, all the money that was made during the ps1 and ps2 generations

It lost many exclusives from last generation.

What is good? It is the most powerful? So? How is this helping it right now? It is hard to justify an exclusive for the platform that takes advantage of it because costs to do so are so high. And when you make a multiplatform game it is basically the same on both HD platforms. As for the 360 exclusives going to ps3 as well, you are right it is a two way ship. HD games are expensive to make and companies want to maximize the profit. The only reason that these games would stop going to both platforms are like I said earlier: companies think they can make more profit from taking the costs to port the game and applying it to other projects they think will have better returns. One example would be valve. It is very easy to port PC games to the 360 and Valve specializes in PC games. The cost to put it on the 360 is very minimal. To port it to the ps3, though,  they would have to train and hire new people to focus on porting the projects. Or you pay another company to do this work. Valve prolly simply decided it would get a better return to focus those funds into different projects such as steam. But for most companies that already have ps3 staff I think it is more costs effective to just do multiplat unless software sales decline compared to what they are now (which could occur if ps3 has a bad holiday season again compared to 360 and wii). Of course another reason is fanboyism, something that is quite prevalent in the industry. When people who do not understand business are making the business decisions, this can happen. 

 

Lastly, as for activision again, they have enough cash cows that they would be hurt less by dropping ps3 than sony would. Sony is hurting on many fronts and losing one of the biggest third parties would be a huge blow to the system that could have other publishers do the same thing. Activision knows this and that is why they feel they can make threats and comments like they did. As for your comment on me calling you a fanboy, well Sony fanboys try to make it sound like the ps3 is in a fine position and that everything attacking it is BS. There is alot of shit said that does not make sense and is untrue, but to think Sony is fine and are having no problems, and that the gaming division is perfect and doing just like it wanted is stupid. The reality is it is underperforming so badly that it has managed to lose all the moeny it has ever made. There is not good way to spin that. 



Now Playing: The Witcher (PC)

Consoles Owned: NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, Game Boy, DS



Regardless of what people at top say, Sony has earned more of my respect this generation than MS. The awesome 1st and 2nd party exclusives are what speak to me rather than the PR pissing contests. The only exclusive I really liked on the 360 is now PS3-bound (Tales of Vesperia). Because of the poor treatment by MS customer service when my console broke, ToV going to PS3, and cancellation of Cry On / alleged secret firing of Mistwalker - I'm most likely sticking to Sony and Nintendo from now on. Yes, I did finally buy a Wii.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

Destructoid needs to STFU



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This thread makes me sad not the topic but the pathetic responses on both sides of it.



Former something....

Aiemond said:
perpride said:
Aiemond - Have you once looked at Activision games sell on Sony platforms? Do you even know that he was not just talking about PS3? He was talking about dropping all support for Sony platforms. Have you once looked at how third party published games sell on the Wii? On PS3? How about the two in comparison? The gap is nowhere near how big it was back in the PS2 days. Have you ever seen the sales for Activision games on PS3? OK...I thought not.....do that...and then tell me how dreadful Sony's third place console is doing. Pretty damn god for last place if you ask me.

PS3 exclusives are going to 360 because of Wii's success. That's it. And it is not a one way damn road. Look at how many 360 exclusives have come to PS3 and then tell me that third parties are running from PS3. It sounds like you are still in early 2007 my friend. 360's highest rated exclusive EVER, Bioshock (and its forthcoming sequel), have now come/are headed to PS3. Eternal Sonata, Dead Rising 2, Lost Planet, Ninja Gaiden 2 and Tales of Vesperia are several other examples that pop straight into my mind.

Activision not developing for Sony would be a dumbfuck move on Activision's part, especially since they already have people that know how to develop for PS3 and have already put out so many games. Don't call me a fanboy then stand up for every piece of shit that is written against Sony.

Look, I said that he was under pressure to get ps3 titles to sell better and has enough leverage that he can get away with it.. That's why he made the comment. They would only do this is they thought the cost for porting these games excede the amount of profit they could get by allocating these funds to a different project, such as map packs, wow expansions, etc. IMO they would have to have lower sales then they do now for a port not to be economical. The exception to this rule is niche games that will sell low amounts either way. Niche games are the types that benifit from being on only one console. Now, if the ps3 had a very bad holiday season again and software sales declined then they would have a reason to pull support. Again, this is what happened to the GC. As for your comment on how the gap is not as big as it was during the ps2 days that just means that MS has had a far better generation and sony has had a far worse one. This whole paragraph makes sense untill you reach the last sentence. The gap between software sales not being big has absolutley nothing to do with the Xbox 360 doing good. It simply means that the Wii is not the third party software monster that the PS2 once was. Wii sales for third party games are just as good if not better than the 360, but the PS3, even though it is a last place console, is not trailing by much. The difference of sales between 360, PS3 AND Wii games made by activision is nowhere near the amount of sales the PS2 would have compared to the other consoles back in the sixth generation.

 

You want me to tell you how dreadful the ps3 is doing? Ok.

It performed FAR below expectations.

It continues to lose money for every unit sold even at $400.

It caused Sony to go from a very very large lead during the ps2 generation to the LAST place console this generation.

It lost brand power for the Playstation name. 

It lost, so far, all the money that was made during the ps1 and ps2 generations

It lost many exclusives from last generation.

You have not told me anything in this little rant paragraph. Go back and read the bolded part of my initial statement. You are pretending like this is early 2007. The points you are raising for PS3 being a failure would only be relevant if I was in here claiming the console is doing better than Wii, 360, or what people where expecting in 2006. Or if I was saying that it is going to be the first place console when this is aid and done. When you look at the bolded part, you will see that I clearly said "tell me how dreadful Sony's third place console is doing. Pretty damn good for last if you ask me". And I stay by that statement completely. The reasons you have listed here and after this point have to do with Sony not being first place. Yes, it performed lower than expected. Many people were expecting it to be the next PS2. It wasn't. Yes, they are sold at a loss. They went from first to last. But in no way did PlayStation lose its brand power. Even after all of the reasons we all know sony did not win first this gen, they are still doing far better than the third and second place console from the last generation. In fact, I'd say for a last place console, they are doing pretty fucking good. I have never seen a last place console with this many amazing exclusive games. The closest thing to this would be the Dreamcast and Sony destroyed that console both in sales and software with the PS3. The company is currently enjoying tremendous third party support. All of this is still at a pricepoint that is MUCH higher than the GC ever was.

What is good? It is the most powerful? So? How is this helping it right now? It is hard to justify an exclusive for the platform that takes advantage of it because costs to do so are so high. And when you make a multiplatform game it is basically the same on both HD platforms. As for the 360 exclusives going to ps3 as well, you are right it is a two way ship. HD games are expensive to make and companies want to maximize the profit. Exactly you are completely right here. This is why the dude from Activision should go fuck himself.

The only reason that these games would stop going to both platforms are like I said earlier: companies think they can make more profit from taking the costs to port the game and applying it to other projects they think will have better returns. One example would be valve. It is very easy to port PC games to the 360 and Valve specializes in PC games. The cost to put it on the 360 is very minimal. To port it to the ps3, though,  they would have to train and hire new people to focus on porting the projects. Or you pay another company to do this work. Valve prolly simply decided it would get a better return to focus those funds into different projects such as steam. But for most companies that already have ps3 staff I think it is more costs effective to just do multiplat unless software sales decline compared to what they are now (which could occur if ps3 has a bad holiday season again compared to 360 and wii). Of course another reason is fanboyism, something that is quite prevalent in the industry. When people who do not understand business are making the business decisions, this can happen. This will not happen. If this was last year or the year before I might agree with you. But PS3 has now sold enough consoles and software (and continues to) to justify practically any third party developer into going multiplatform. The cost of bringing a game to PS3 is nowhere near the amount of money you make for making the game multiplatform. Companies that have no loyalty to Sony and Microsoft will continue to suppot both games.

 

Lastly, as for activision again, they have enough cash cows that they would be hurt less by dropping ps3 than sony would. Sony is hurting on many fronts and losing one of the biggest third parties would be a huge blow to the system that could have other publishers do the same thing. Activision knows this and that is why they feel they can make threats and comments like they did. As for your comment on me calling you a fanboy, well Sony fanboys try to make it sound like the ps3 is in a fine position and that everything attacking it is BS. There is alot of shit said that does not make sense and is untrue, but to think Sony is fine and are having no problems, and that the gaming division is perfect and doing just like it wanted is stupid. The reality is it is underperforming so badly that it has managed to lose all the moeny it has ever made. There is not good way to spin that. Trust me my friend, no console maker is hurting as badly as Sony right now. They have made a HUGE number of mistakes this gen. They also have extremely bad PR. If I had the chart that Twesterm always posts about the mistakes made before PS3 was released, you would see how many mistakes they have made in detail. But this does not in any way justify what the dude from Activision is saying. In no way do I agree that Activision pulling support from Sony would hurt Sony more than Activision. I see it as completely two-sided, something that would needlesly hurt both. PS3 pushes more than enough software to justify making games for it. Development is much easier for companies like Activision that already have teams that know how to port or create games for it. And the last point that I'd like to raise, which is also extremely important, is that this dude is talking about pulling support from Sony in general, not hte PS3. That part fully makes me realize that his is a bogus statement.

 



perpride said:
Aiemond said:
perpride said:
Aiemond - Have you once looked at Activision games sell on Sony platforms? Do you even know that he was not just talking about PS3? He was talking about dropping all support for Sony platforms. Have you once looked at how third party published games sell on the Wii? On PS3? How about the two in comparison? The gap is nowhere near how big it was back in the PS2 days. Have you ever seen the sales for Activision games on PS3? OK...I thought not.....do that...and then tell me how dreadful Sony's third place console is doing. Pretty damn god for last place if you ask me.

PS3 exclusives are going to 360 because of Wii's success. That's it. And it is not a one way damn road. Look at how many 360 exclusives have come to PS3 and then tell me that third parties are running from PS3. It sounds like you are still in early 2007 my friend. 360's highest rated exclusive EVER, Bioshock (and its forthcoming sequel), have now come/are headed to PS3. Eternal Sonata, Dead Rising 2, Lost Planet, Ninja Gaiden 2 and Tales of Vesperia are several other examples that pop straight into my mind.

Activision not developing for Sony would be a dumbfuck move on Activision's part, especially since they already have people that know how to develop for PS3 and have already put out so many games. Don't call me a fanboy then stand up for every piece of shit that is written against Sony.

Look, I said that he was under pressure to get ps3 titles to sell better and has enough leverage that he can get away with it.. That's why he made the comment. They would only do this is they thought the cost for porting these games excede the amount of profit they could get by allocating these funds to a different project, such as map packs, wow expansions, etc. IMO they would have to have lower sales then they do now for a port not to be economical. The exception to this rule is niche games that will sell low amounts either way. Niche games are the types that benifit from being on only one console. Now, if the ps3 had a very bad holiday season again and software sales declined then they would have a reason to pull support. Again, this is what happened to the GC. As for your comment on how the gap is not as big as it was during the ps2 days that just means that MS has had a far better generation and sony has had a far worse one. This whole paragraph makes sense untill you reach the last sentence. The gap between software sales not being big has absolutley nothing to do with the Xbox 360 doing good. It simply means that the Wii is not the third party software monster that the PS2 once was. Wii sales for third party games are just as good if not better than the 360, but the PS3, even though it is a last place console, is not trailing by much. The difference of sales between 360, PS3 AND Wii games made by activision is nowhere near the amount of sales the PS2 would have compared to the other consoles back in the sixth generation.

I am comparing this gen to last one. 360 is performing far better this gen than xbox did last gen but ps3 is performing far worse than the ps2 did. The gap is closer than it was last gen. That is bad for Sony. They were on top of the world. And, of course, the wii coming our and taking the top is not good for sony either. 

 

You want me to tell you how dreadful the ps3 is doing? Ok.

It performed FAR below expectations.

It continues to lose money for every unit sold even at $400.

It caused Sony to go from a very very large lead during the ps2 generation to the LAST place console this generation.

It lost brand power for the Playstation name. 

It lost, so far, all the money that was made during the ps1 and ps2 generations

It lost many exclusives from last generation.

You have not told me anything in this little rant paragraph. Go back and read the bolded part of my initial statement. You are pretending like this is early 2007. The points you are raising for PS3 being a failure would only be relevant if I was in here claiming the console is doing better than Wii, 360, or what people where expecting in 2006. Or if I was saying that it is going to be the first place console when this is aid and done. When you look at the bolded part, you will see that I clearly said "tell me how dreadful Sony's third place console is doing. Pretty damn good for last if you ask me". And I stay by that statement completely. The reasons you have listed here and after this point have to do with Sony not being first place. Yes, it performed lower than expected. Many people were expecting it to be the next PS2. It wasn't. Yes, they are sold at a loss. They went from first to last. But in no way did PlayStation lose its brand power. Even after all of the reasons we all know sony did not win first this gen, they are still doing far better than the third and second place console from the last generation. In fact, I'd say for a last place console, they are doing pretty fucking good. I have never seen a last place console with this many amazing exclusive games. The closest thing to this would be the Dreamcast and Sony destroyed that console both in sales and software with the PS3. The company is currently enjoying tremendous third party support. All of this is still at a pricepoint that is MUCH higher than the GC ever was. It is getting better support than other consoles last gen, but unlike nintendo they are still not making a profit :P. And, these points are relevant because they are talking about the goal of the console, which was not met and frankly was never even close to being met. If being the "best last place console" is a positive for Sony, then it just shows you how bad it is for sony this gen.

What is good? It is the most powerful? So? How is this helping it right now? It is hard to justify an exclusive for the platform that takes advantage of it because costs to do so are so high. And when you make a multiplatform game it is basically the same on both HD platforms. As for the 360 exclusives going to ps3 as well, you are right it is a two way ship. HD games are expensive to make and companies want to maximize the profit. Exactly you are completely right here. This is why the dude from Activision should go fuck himself.

The only reason that these games would stop going to both platforms are like I said earlier: companies think they can make more profit from taking the costs to port the game and applying it to other projects they think will have better returns. One example would be valve. It is very easy to port PC games to the 360 and Valve specializes in PC games. The cost to put it on the 360 is very minimal. To port it to the ps3, though,  they would have to train and hire new people to focus on porting the projects. Or you pay another company to do this work. Valve prolly simply decided it would get a better return to focus those funds into different projects such as steam. But for most companies that already have ps3 staff I think it is more costs effective to just do multiplat unless software sales decline compared to what they are now (which could occur if ps3 has a bad holiday season again compared to 360 and wii). Of course another reason is fanboyism, something that is quite prevalent in the industry. When people who do not understand business are making the business decisions, this can happen. This will not happen. If this was last year or the year before I might agree with you. But PS3 has now sold enough consoles and software (and continues to) to justify practically any third party developer into going multiplatform. The cost of bringing a game to PS3 is nowhere near the amount of money you make for making the game multiplatform. Companies that have no loyalty to Sony and Microsoft will continue to suppot both games. I only said this would happen if Sony did really bad this holiday season again or if Activision decided they could make more money doing other stuff. But, with Cod it is obvious multiplatform is the right answer. Smaller projects, usually from smaller studios, will not sell as much and thus the extra cost may outwiegh the benifit of being multiplat. This is true for alot of niche games, ones that prolly will only sell 50k in a region, or maybe 100k in a region. I'll say this again though, if the holiday is bad enough and the gap increases then there is more bite to the threat.

 

Lastly, as for activision again, they have enough cash cows that they would be hurt less by dropping ps3 than sony would. Sony is hurting on many fronts and losing one of the biggest third parties would be a huge blow to the system that could have other publishers do the same thing. Activision knows this and that is why they feel they can make threats and comments like they did. As for your comment on me calling you a fanboy, well Sony fanboys try to make it sound like the ps3 is in a fine position and that everything attacking it is BS. There is alot of shit said that does not make sense and is untrue, but to think Sony is fine and are having no problems, and that the gaming division is perfect and doing just like it wanted is stupid. The reality is it is underperforming so badly that it has managed to lose all the moeny it has ever made. There is not good way to spin that. Trust me my friend, no console maker is hurting as badly as Sony right now. They have made a HUGE number of mistakes this gen. They also have extremely bad PR. If I had the chart that Twesterm always posts about the mistakes made before PS3 was released, you would see how many mistakes they have made in detail. But this does not in any way justify what the dude from Activision is saying. In no way do I agree that Activision pulling support from Sony would hurt Sony more than Activision. I see it as completely two-sided, something that would needlesly hurt both. PS3 pushes more than enough software to justify making games for it. Development is much easier for companies like Activision that already have teams that know how to port or create games for it. And the last point that I'd like to raise, which is also extremely important, is that this dude is talking about pulling support from Sony in general, not hte PS3. That part fully makes me realize that his is a bogus statement. It will hurt sony more.  Ps3 accounts for less than 10% of the total revenue of Activision. And his rant is basically about the ps3, and perhaps the psp.

They have to cut the price, because if they don’t, the attach rates [the number of games each console owner buys] are likely to slow. If we are being realistic, we might have to stop supporting Sony.” Ask when and he says: “When we look at 2010 and 2011, we might want to consider if we support the console — and the PSP [portable] too.
So why would it hurt sony more? If activision leaves, this can begin a cascade for other third parties to leave and for more people to get a 360. If they get the 360, they can still buy activision games while activision does not have to pay port costs. Now, as I said earlier, this will prolly not happen soon if at all. BUT, if the holiday season is bad enough again, and if software sales go down then it can happen. If the gap increases enough it can happen. And it would hurt Sony more.


 

 



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Consoles Owned: NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, Game Boy, DS

This is really a horrible thread. This is GT forum material.



 

BMaker11 said:

@madskillz

I see the error in the PS3. It was too expensive. Plain and simple. Had it launched at $400, then the hype behind it would have carried it to infinity and beyond. But at $600 and the same games as the 360, not that many people would've wanted it.

That much is obvious. It's not a matter of "blaming the consumers for not seeing the value". They only don't buy the console because it's too much money. A fair analogy, not that many people own Ferrari's, but many own a Honda Accord. Why? It's cheaper. Both things go from point A to point B. They both need oil checks, tune ups, tire changes, etc...but the Ferrari is more expensive. And many people know why it's more expensive...but they still don't buy it because it costs more. There are advantages to owning a Ferrari over an Accord, but to some, they don't want to pay that much to get it. Now if the Ferrari was $20,000, or at least at price parity with the Accord, what car do you think more people would buy?

And the thing with Valve isn't a matter of blaming. They are supposed to be "the greatest developers in the world" (as hailed by 360 fans)....but when it comes to the PS3, they simply say "this is too hard, I don't wanna do it". Not because "we won't make any money in this investment, so it isn't wise" (for example, not putting Modern Warfare on the Wii because Activision doesn't believe the demographic is there for that game) but because "it's too hard" and "too difficult". So much for being great developers huh? And the only reason, and I mean ONLY reason PS3 fans "grin devilishly" when a 360 game comes to the PS3 is because this ENTIRE generation has been nothing but M$ going "look guys, we get these Playstation games too, you can come play our system now" and now the mass public thinks that it's pointless to get a PS3 because "that game is just going to end up on the 360 anyway". They have brainwashed a lot of people into thinking that, so now, despite having INCREDIBLE games come out from the 1st party and still getting great 3rd party exclusives, the loss of things like GTA, Final Fantasy, DMC, etc outweigh everything else because they were big, established franchises. And many people think to broad. Since GTA went to the 360....the PS3 "has no games" to some still. Maybe not on this forum, but I remember when I bought GTAIV, I was at the midnight launch, and I heard some townie saying "there's no point in buying a PS3. It has the same games as the 360, but it is more expensive". Any smart person would know that the PS3 has a lot of unique and great games that distinguish it from everything else.

But anyway, it's Sony's turn with getting the games from the 360. It's only going to be a matter of time before people start looking at the 360 and saying "it's just going to end up on the Playstation anyway". But I guess it won't happen that fast because the 360 was the underdog, getting all the big names from the German Shepard that ran the yard. But now that the PS3 is in last place, it's the underdog taking all the big names...because if I recall correctly, the PS3 has the 360's highest rated exclusive: Bioshock

And let Activision make good on their threat. Lose the potential sales from 22M PS3 owners, 120+ million PS2 owners, and 50M PSP owners...that'd be smart

/rant

Reading your post - and trust me, I did - you make it sound like Sony has down no wrong. And boy, have they.

Here's my question - if you can make the same amount of money working at McDonald's vs. working as a nuclear physicist, which job would you take? I'd take the McDonald's job. Why? It's fun and I don't have to use nearly the same amount of energy to get the job done as I would have if I was a physicists.

Valve is making money without the PS3. That's their stance. To make them exert extra effort for a minimal return is pointless. If you like their games, buy the systems they make the games on. Don't whine because said game isn't on your system. No matter what you or other fans do, some developers aren't interested to devoting time to the PS3. Like it or not, no one is forcing anyone to buy a console. You buy it for what you see in it. I could have afforded a PS3 at launch. But I thought about it and didn't see any games I wanted or just had to have.

And this statement ... ONLY reason PS3 fans "grin devilishly" when a 360 game comes to the PS3 is because this ENTIRE generation has been nothing but M$ going "look guys, we get these Playstation games too, you can come play our system now" and now the mass public thinks that it's pointless to get a PS3 because "that game is just going to end up on the 360 anyway". They have brainwashed a lot of people into thinking that, so now, despite having INCREDIBLE games come out from the 1st party and still getting great 3rd party exclusives, the loss of things like GTA, Final Fantasy, DMC, etc outweigh everything else because they were big, established franchises. And many people think to broad. Since GTA went to the 360....the PS3 "has no games" to some still. Maybe not on this forum, but I remember when I bought GTAIV, I was at the midnight launch, and I heard some townie saying "there's no point in buying a PS3. It has the same games as the 360, but it is more expensive". Any smart person would know that the PS3 has a lot of unique and great games that distinguish it from everything else.

Sounds like Xbox fans last gen when they were like 'Yay! We got GTA III! A few years late, but we got it!' Xbox DID get a few of the PS2 timed exclusives - and they sold ok, but it was an old port. Sound familiar?

Brainwashed? Are you serious? How can a person be brainwashed when they are being thrifty - able to watch Netflix on their TV - play HD games for half the cost of a PS3. To me, if I am going to pay for a Ferrari, I better get:

1. A sick, fast engine

2. F-1 transmission

3. Racing suspension

and a resell value that's through the roof.

Comparing a Honda (360) to a Ferrari (PS3) is laughable. The PS3 is not a Ferrari. A tuned Beamer - a 1 series - vs. a hella tuned Accord - or Subaru - or even a Mitsubishi EVO.

The 360 has the third party support - hasn't pissed Activision off and has an 8M console lead.

Smart people, huh? Who was that a swipe at? Folks see the games and aren't interested in the PS3 as much, especially for the price of admission. You - as stated earlier - see value in the PS3. A lot of potential customers don't see that now. Maybe they will, but if they don't have enough exclusives - that's what boosted the PS2 into the stratosphere - no matter how loud you shout, folks will just ignore you and your rants.