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Forums - General Discussion - Why Obama is an idiot (Quotes)

tombi123 on 06 July 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
Khuutra said:

Decent facts, incorrect conclusion. The only metric you'e using here is time taken in order to get treatment for specific problems! Is that not too narrow a set of criteria for saying where a person is better off? What about the ability to get normal checkups at all? Or not having to worry about paying for the cost of surgeries, or ambulance bills? There are too many people who don't seek out medical care just because they think they can't afford it. Hell, my own father isn't seeking out surgery that would improve his health immensely because he doesn't think he would be able to afford it, regardless of whether or not he actually could.

That's not a worry in Canada. That counts for a lot.

I guess it all boils down to what you want out of a system. anywhereThe US, if you can afford it, offers much better health services then Canada (or  anywhere else in the world for that matter). If you can't afford it (or don't think you can), then the piece of mind of socialized medicine is best for you.

I prefer to live in a country will a much higher upper bound, that you have to work to achieve. It's why I like what the US used to be all about. Nothing is given to you, and it's hard work to get what you want, but the possibilities are endless.

 


So you dismissed the WHO tables as flawed, and then you said USA has the best healthcare system in the world without backing that up with a link... I'm sorry but if the WHO think the USA has the 27th best healthcare system in the world, you can't translate that into, the USA has the best healthcare system in the world.



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Khuutra on 06 July 2009
mrstickball said:
Probably the quality of what's offered, Khuutra.

If you have a horrible illness or disease, your best chance of survivability is in America.

That's perfectly fair! I mean, we're so much more expensive that I could be lead to believe it! I just... you know, I need some kind of citation for it. Some kind of study.



TheRealMafoo on 06 July 2009
tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Khuutra said:

Decent facts, incorrect conclusion. The only metric you'e using here is time taken in order to get treatment for specific problems! Is that not too narrow a set of criteria for saying where a person is better off? What about the ability to get normal checkups at all? Or not having to worry about paying for the cost of surgeries, or ambulance bills? There are too many people who don't seek out medical care just because they think they can't afford it. Hell, my own father isn't seeking out surgery that would improve his health immensely because he doesn't think he would be able to afford it, regardless of whether or not he actually could.

That's not a worry in Canada. That counts for a lot.

I guess it all boils down to what you want out of a system. anywhereThe US, if you can afford it, offers much better health services then Canada (or  anywhere else in the world for that matter). If you can't afford it (or don't think you can), then the piece of mind of socialized medicine is best for you.

I prefer to live in a country will a much higher upper bound, that you have to work to achieve. It's why I like what the US used to be all about. Nothing is given to you, and it's hard work to get what you want, but the possibilities are endless.

 


So you dismissed the WHO tables as flawed, and then you said USA has the best healthcare system in the world without backing that up with a link... I'm sorry but if the WHO think the USA has the 27th best healthcare system in the world, you can't translate that into, the USA has the best healthcare system in the world.

I didn't say they had the best system in the world, just the best healthcare. Based on what some consider a good system, we might be as low as 27th.

I for one, would rather have a system where people earn better healthcare, and then go earn it. For others, that might not be the best system.

For someone like me however, I end up with better healthcare in the US, then I can get anywhere else (and I live just a few hours from the best medical facility in the world, the Mayo Clinic in Rochester MN).



tombi123 on 06 July 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
tombi123 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Khuutra said:

Decent facts, incorrect conclusion. The only metric you'e using here is time taken in order to get treatment for specific problems! Is that not too narrow a set of criteria for saying where a person is better off? What about the ability to get normal checkups at all? Or not having to worry about paying for the cost of surgeries, or ambulance bills? There are too many people who don't seek out medical care just because they think they can't afford it. Hell, my own father isn't seeking out surgery that would improve his health immensely because he doesn't think he would be able to afford it, regardless of whether or not he actually could.

That's not a worry in Canada. That counts for a lot.

I guess it all boils down to what you want out of a system. anywhereThe US, if you can afford it, offers much better health services then Canada (or  anywhere else in the world for that matter). If you can't afford it (or don't think you can), then the piece of mind of socialized medicine is best for you.

I prefer to live in a country will a much higher upper bound, that you have to work to achieve. It's why I like what the US used to be all about. Nothing is given to you, and it's hard work to get what you want, but the possibilities are endless.

 


So you dismissed the WHO tables as flawed, and then you said USA has the best healthcare system in the world without backing that up with a link... I'm sorry but if the WHO think the USA has the 27th best healthcare system in the world, you can't translate that into, the USA has the best healthcare system in the world.

I didn't say they had the best system in the world, just the best healthcare. Based on what some consider a good system, we might be as low as 27th.

I for one, would rather have a system where people earn better healthcare, and then go earn it. For others, that might not be the best system.

For someone like me however, I end up with better healthcare in the US, then I can get anywhere else (and I live just a few hours from the best medical facility in the world, the Mayo Clinic in Rochester MN).

Sorry I didn't make the distinction.

I wouldn't be surprised if the USA had the best healthcare in the world, but I would still like a link if you have one.



Slimebeast on 06 July 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
Khuutra said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Khuutra said:
sguy78 said:
All you have to do is look to our neighbors up north to see that government run healthcare is a joke.

Actually this is nonsensical in other ways. Do you think that Canada is the only country with socialized healthcare? What about the UK? Or France? Or pretty much any first-world nation that isn't the United States? Do you know how low the WHO ranks the US in terms of its healthcare system? Are you going to suggest that we have the best healthcare system in the modern world?

Here is a hint: we don't. Socialized healthcare is the norm. In most civilized nations, healthcare is a right, not a privilege. For a lot of folks in the Western world, the idea of losing socialized healthcare is probably the worst thing you could confront a person with.

If you are going to argue for socialized medicine, you might not want to use the WHO as an argument. There means of measuring countries is extremely flawed.

For example, they rate uniform quality of care. So if in the US the worst care a person gets is say 50% of optimum, and the best care a person in the US gets is 100%, we are scored lower then another country if that entire country gets 20% of optimum.

They have several other metrics that don’t tell the real story with respect to how well your taken care of if you need medical attention.

I don't know enough about the WHO to formulate an argument that would be either well-informed or particularly well-reasoned, but that doesn't take away from the rest of my post.

Seems like famousringo might be more on the up and up in that respect I guess?

Point being that Canada's healthcare is better than ours! There! I said it!

 

You can tell this article is very biased against the US, but facts are facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

"Canadians, when asked about their wait times[46], reported that the median wait time to see a special physician was a little over four weeks with 89.5% waiting less then 3 months. The median wait time for diagnostic services such as MRI and CAT scans [47] is two weeks with 86.4% waiting less than 3 months. The median wait time for surgery is four weeks with 82.2% waiting less than 3 months."

I don't know about you, but I have never had to wait more than a day or two for an MRI or to see a doctor, and never waiting more than a week for surgery. Funny that the only US stats is Medicaid.

 

"

Wow, those wait times are nothing to complain about! That's peanuts compared to Swedish wait times.



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ironman on 06 July 2009
Legend11 said:
You shouldn't play the quote game considering the man that came before Obama.

Actually, I believe it's payback for what the libs did to him. At least he had common sense.



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

Chris Hu on 06 July 2009

If the US health care system was really that great which it is not their would be no US citizens participating in medical tourism. Sure if you are filthy rich you can get the best medical attention in the US but if you are filthy rich you can buy the best medical attention no matter where you live in the world lots of money buys great medical care what else is new.



sguy78 on 06 July 2009
Chris Hu said:
If the US health care system was really that great which it is not their would be no US citizens participating in medical tourism. Sure if you are filthy rich you can get the best medical attention in the US but if you are filthy rich you can buy the best medical attention no matter where you live in the world lots of money buys great medical care what else is new.

So why are Canadians coming across the border into the U.S. to get medical care?



Legend11 on 06 July 2009
sguy78 said:
Chris Hu said:
If the US health care system was really that great which it is not their would be no US citizens participating in medical tourism. Sure if you are filthy rich you can get the best medical attention in the US but if you are filthy rich you can buy the best medical attention no matter where you live in the world lots of money buys great medical care what else is new.

So why are Canadians coming across the border into the U.S. to get medical care?


Probably the same reason why Americans come across the border to get care in the Canadian system.  It doesn't matter if better care is available if a person is unable to afford it.  I'm willing to bet if you took a poll of Americans and Canadians and asked if they would want their country to switch to the other's system of medicare that the vast majority of Canadians would say no.  If the American system is so much better why would that be the case?

As for wait times there's a shortage of doctors in Canada and it's severe in some areas.  The reason being that many Canadian doctors are lured to the United States because they're able to make more money in that system.  It's especially annoying when you consider the fact that their education is subsidized by Canadian tax dollars.

I also think people need to take a step back from media coverage of the system, especially when there may be hidden agendas involved.  For example I remember stories by U.S. media warning American citizens not to buy their perscription drugs in Canada because it might be dangerous.  It was pretty ridiculous considering our system is more strict and the people would be getting the same drugs they would have gotten in the United States.  You know the ones made in the exact same factories by the exact same group of people.



Kasz216 on 06 July 2009
Khuutra said:
sguy78 said:
NightstrikerX said:
sguy78 said:
All you have to do is look to our neighbors up north to see that government run healthcare is a joke.

*Ahem*. I don't think this thread is about canadian health care comparison to american health care. Please, do you even know how our system works? I highly doubt it.

Typical liberal. Attack someone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint. Try again without attacking me. Liberals can never win in a game of logic.

Canadian healthcare is pretty sweet. Really. I love it to pieces while I'm living up there.

Interesting note.

Apparently Pittsburgh has more MRI machines then all of Canada.

Whether this is a negative on Canada or whether or not Pittsburgh loves it's MRI's I can't really say.

Just a fun fact i picked up over the weekend.