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Forums - Sales Discussion - Is It Worth Developing For PS3? - Bruce on Games to Investors

Bruce on Games is one of the worst 'analysts' in the industry. He is even worse than Pachter. There is little point in listening to what he has to say.



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Gebx, don't you think your comparison list is a little, scratch that... I mean, VERY unfair when 3 of those games on the list, which are Lego Indy, Kung Fu Panda and Marvel Ultimate Alliance were heavily bundled?

Take those 3 away and other than the top 3 sellers, things do not look much different for either console.

Guitar Hero 3 was also part of a holiday bundle for walmart this past holiday, being given for free with every 360 purchase. Guitar + Game. Was CoD3 ever bundled with the 360?

 

Maybe Activision should do one of two things.

 

1.) Bundle games for both consoles heavily.

2.) Drop PS3+360 support other than Call of Duty and Guitar Hero.

 

When you see the real picture here you quickly realize just how bullshit this article really is.



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Rainbird said:
Squilliam said:

I prefer rock salt. If the cost of porting is more a fixed cost rather than a % of cost of development then it does make sense to not port games which will sell poorly and spend that money elsewhere. Also it gives space for other games on the PS3 to perform better, a win/win I say!

I would prefer that the money spent on porting the lousy games to the PS3 were spent on something better, like making good games

And yes, it is a win/win, and I will agree more with you for every copy of BAJA that was chosen over Motorstorm: Pacific Rift.

All in all though, why spend money on creating the bad games in the first place? Spend the money on making good games that will make nice profits on both platforms instead

Wow this was open from ages back. Hmm Yeeeeah it wwwould be better for everyone involved to just make better games but it isn't that easy, if they could just make better games then they would do just that.



Tease.

gebx said:
Rainbird said:
gebx said:
Dgc1808 said:
It's impossible to make money on PS3 without 4M+ plus sales. PS3 is doomed.

 

http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?&results=50&name=&console=PS3&keyword=&publisher=14&genre=&order=Sales&boxart=Both&showdeleted=&region=All&alphasort=

Out of the 30 or so games published by Activision for the PS3, only ONE game passed 4 million, the next drops to 1.9 million

The average game on the PS3 if you take out GH and COD sells about 250,000 copies. It would actually be a GOOD business move for Activision to drop every game PS3 game, other than CoD and GH which do make them money.

And like so many other things in life, that list needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

On that list, there are 27 titles which have been released, and we have data for. Nine of those are movie tie-ins, two are history channel games  and Prototype has only just been released.

Fishing and hunting games don't do very well on either PS3 or the 360, as opposed to on the Wii, and many of those games sold lowly on the 360 as well. Quake Wars, Fracture and SCORE International BAJA for example.

I'm not saying that some of these titles don't "undersell" on the PS3, like Tony Hawk Project 8, but if Activision want to make more money off the PS3, my suggestion would be to produce better games.

 

Your argument falls when comparing sales to other consoles, the Activision CEO states "rate of attachment" is the problem.

Let's compare multiplatform releases for an accurate comparisson (So no CoD2, GH2, etc which all sold millions on the 360)

 

Xbox 360
PS3
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Activision  7.49
Activision  4.35





Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock

Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
RedOctane  4.23
RedOctane  1.88





Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
LucasArts  3.36
LucasArts  0.56





Kung Fu Panda

Kung Fu Panda
Activision  2.95
Activision  0.37





Marvel: Ultimate Alliance

Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Activision  2.45
Activision  0.29





Call of Duty 3

Call of Duty 3
Activision  2.31
Activision  0.67





Guitar Hero: World Tour

Guitar Hero: World Tour
Activision  2
Activision  1.21





007: Quantum of Solace

007: Quantum of Solace
Activision  0.94
Activision  0.67





Guitar Hero: Aerosmith

Guitar Hero: Aerosmith
Activision  0.86
Activision  0.52





Transformers: The Game

Transformers: The Game
Activision  0.74
Activision  0.27





Spider-Man 3 

Spider-Man 3 
Activision  0.74
Activision  0.27





Tony Hawk's Project 8

Tony Hawk's Project 8
Activision  0.67
Activision  0.17





Tony Hawk's Proving Ground

Tony Hawk's Proving Ground
Activision  0.45
Activision  0.31





Enemy Territory: Quake Wars

Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Activision  0.36
Activision  0.28





X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Uncaged Edition
X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Uncaged Edition
Activision Blizzard  0.32
Activision Blizzard  0.29





Spider-Man: Web of Shadows

Spider-Man: Web of Shadows
Activision  0.29
Activision  0.15





[Prototype]

[Prototype]
Activision  0.29
Activision  0.17





World Series of Poker: Tournament of Champions World Series of Poker 2008: Battle for the Bracelets
Activision  0.16
Activision  0.05





Soldier of Fortune: Payback

Soldier of Fortune: Payback
Activision  0.14
Activision  0.06





Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009

Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009
Activision  0.12
Activision  0.06





Fracture

Fracture
LucasArts  0.11
LucasArts  0.05





History Channel Civil War: Secret Missions
History Channel Civil War: Secret Missions
Activision  0.08
Activision  0.06





Monsters vs. Aliens

Monsters vs. Aliens
Activision  0.05
Activision  0.04





SCORE International Baja 1000

SCORE International Baja 1000: The Official Game
Activision  0.01
Activision  0.01

 

Total 360 Copies - 31.12 million (360 Attach Rate = 1.01), 1.30 million average sold per game
Total PS3 Copies - 12.76 (PS3 Attach Rate = 0.56), 0.53 million average sold per game

* Note - Reminder that these numbers only account for multiplatform releases to compare the PS3 to its competitor

 

@ Username2023

I'm guessing your comment about PS3 software selling better was not referring to Activison games? You'll see none of these games outsold the 360 (well maybe Baja 1000 since they look tied :) )

Xbox 360
PS3
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Activision  7.49 20th Jun 09 Activision  4.35 20th Jun 09







Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
RedOctane  4.23 20th Jun 09 RedOctane  1.88 20th Jun 09







Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
LucasArts  3.36 20th Jun 09 LucasArts  0.56 20th Jun 09







Kung Fu Panda

Kung Fu Panda
Activision  2.95 10th Jun 08 Activision  0.37 10th Jun 08







Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Activision  2.45 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.29 20th Jun 09







Call of Duty 3

Call of Duty 3
Activision  2.31 12th Apr 08 Activision  0.67 20th Jun 09







Guitar Hero: World Tour
Guitar Hero: World Tour
Activision  2 16th Apr 09 Activision  1.21 20th Jun 09







007: Quantum of Solace
007: Quantum of Solace
Activision  0.94 24th Mar 09 Activision  0.67 20th Jun 09







Guitar Hero: Aerosmith
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith
Activision  0.86 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.52 20th Jun 09







Transformers: The Game
Transformers: The Game
Activision  0.74 21st Jun 09 Activision  0.27 20th Jun 09







Spider-Man 3 

Spider-Man 3 
Activision  0.74 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.27 20th Jun 09







Tony Hawk's Project 8
Tony Hawk's Project 8
Activision  0.67 16th Jun 09 Activision  0.17 20th Jun 09







Tony Hawk's Proving Ground
Tony Hawk's Proving Ground
Activision  0.45 18th Oct 08 Activision  0.31 20th Jun 09







Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Activision  0.36 12th May 08 Activision  0.28 12th May 08







X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Uncaged Edition X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Uncaged Edition
Activision Blizzard  0.32 20th Jun 09 Activision Blizzard  0.29 20th Jun 09







Spider-Man: Web of Shadows
Spider-Man: Web of Shadows
Activision  0.29 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.15 20th Jun 09







[Prototype]

[Prototype]
Activision  0.29 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.17 20th Jun 09







World Series of Poker: Tournament of Champions World Series of Poker 2008: Battle for the Bracelets
Activision  0.16 06th Jul 07 Activision  0.05 20th Jun 09







Soldier of Fortune: Payback
Soldier of Fortune: Payback
Activision  0.14 20th Nov 07 Activision  0.06 20th Jun 09







Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009
Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009
Activision  0.12 13th Oct 08 Activision  0.06 20th Jun 09







Fracture


Fracture

LucasArts  0.11 20th Jun 09 LucasArts  0.05 20th Jun 09







History Channel Civil War: Secret Missions History Channel Civil War: Secret Missions
Activision  0.08 04th Oct 08 Activision  0.06 04th Oct 08







Monsters vs. Aliens

Monsters vs. Aliens
Activision  0.05 26th Jan 09 Activision  0.04 18th Jan 09







SCORE International Baja 1000
SCORE International Baja 1000: The Official Game
Activision  0.01 26th May 09 Activision  0.01 21st Jan 09

7.54 million - that is the amount of lead the 360 got just from lego indiana, kung fu panda, and marvel: ultimate alliance...3 games that are bundeled into 360s. 

41.1% - the percent of the difference between the 360 and the ps3 in terms of software due to the games the are bundeled into 360 console sales but not bundeled into ps3s.

seriously?!?! do you think these numbers are that great when 3 of the top 5 360 games are heavily bundeled and the 360 has an extra year worth of sales (which makes a huge difference on really old games like CoD 3).



whatever said:
gebx quoting bruce on games? Are you serious? That's like completely NOT making your point.


Hehe, yeah we know this... but investors don't...

Patcher is a perfect example, it doesn't matter how often you can be wrong. Investors, journalist, etc will keep coming back to them for info.

 



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theRepublic said:

Bruce on Games is one of the worst 'analysts' in the industry. He is even worse than Pachter. There is little point in listening to what he has to say.

Agreed. Us wii owners are used to him spouting shit out of his mouth and making little to no sense. The reasons I think the Activision thing is more serious is not because Bruce yaps but more because of data like in ant fromtashkent's chart.




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outlawauron said:
Without PS3, there wouldn't be near as many 360 games. As funny as that sounds.

Quite true. Which is why I'm puzzled that an obvious MS shill like Bruce would advocate cutting HD development. He's not really doing his team any favours here.



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@ Gebx

I was providing insights into the composition of your list, as having a list and providing an average for the sales of some of the games on that list is not very descriptive.

And the point of my final sentence is that bad games usually wont sell well, though I realize I should have expanded on that. Taking platform and userbase into account is important for how well a game does as well. You can't just expect one game to reach the same attach rates on both platforms, because the platforms have a lot of similarities.

To add to the whole thing though, three of the games on your 360 list were quite heavily bundled, and some games that were released a long time ago will have felt a greater impact from the smaller PS3 userbase, like Guitar Hero III or Call of Duty 3.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but looking at it from a perspective of black and white with no other nuances won't get you the full picture.



Steroid said:
I really can't think of an Activision game besides CoD, WoW, or Guitar Hero anyway.

BMaker11 said:
^Okami
No, that's Capcom.



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kitler53 said:
gebx said:
Rainbird said:
gebx said:
Dgc1808 said:
It's impossible to make money on PS3 without 4M+ plus sales. PS3 is doomed.

 

http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?&results=50&name=&console=PS3&keyword=&publisher=14&genre=&order=Sales&boxart=Both&showdeleted=&region=All&alphasort=

Out of the 30 or so games published by Activision for the PS3, only ONE game passed 4 million, the next drops to 1.9 million

The average game on the PS3 if you take out GH and COD sells about 250,000 copies. It would actually be a GOOD business move for Activision to drop every game PS3 game, other than CoD and GH which do make them money.

And like so many other things in life, that list needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

On that list, there are 27 titles which have been released, and we have data for. Nine of those are movie tie-ins, two are history channel games  and Prototype has only just been released.

Fishing and hunting games don't do very well on either PS3 or the 360, as opposed to on the Wii, and many of those games sold lowly on the 360 as well. Quake Wars, Fracture and SCORE International BAJA for example.

I'm not saying that some of these titles don't "undersell" on the PS3, like Tony Hawk Project 8, but if Activision want to make more money off the PS3, my suggestion would be to produce better games.

 

Your argument falls when comparing sales to other consoles, the Activision CEO states "rate of attachment" is the problem.

Let's compare multiplatform releases for an accurate comparisson (So no CoD2, GH2, etc which all sold millions on the 360)

 

Xbox 360
PS3
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Activision  7.49
Activision  4.35





Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock

Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
RedOctane  4.23
RedOctane  1.88





Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
LucasArts  3.36
LucasArts  0.56





Kung Fu Panda

Kung Fu Panda
Activision  2.95
Activision  0.37





Marvel: Ultimate Alliance

Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Activision  2.45
Activision  0.29





Call of Duty 3

Call of Duty 3
Activision  2.31
Activision  0.67





Guitar Hero: World Tour

Guitar Hero: World Tour
Activision  2
Activision  1.21





007: Quantum of Solace

007: Quantum of Solace
Activision  0.94
Activision  0.67





Guitar Hero: Aerosmith

Guitar Hero: Aerosmith
Activision  0.86
Activision  0.52





Transformers: The Game

Transformers: The Game
Activision  0.74
Activision  0.27





Spider-Man 3 

Spider-Man 3 
Activision  0.74
Activision  0.27





Tony Hawk's Project 8

Tony Hawk's Project 8
Activision  0.67
Activision  0.17





Tony Hawk's Proving Ground

Tony Hawk's Proving Ground
Activision  0.45
Activision  0.31





Enemy Territory: Quake Wars

Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Activision  0.36
Activision  0.28





X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Uncaged Edition
X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Uncaged Edition
Activision Blizzard  0.32
Activision Blizzard  0.29





Spider-Man: Web of Shadows

Spider-Man: Web of Shadows
Activision  0.29
Activision  0.15





[Prototype]

[Prototype]
Activision  0.29
Activision  0.17





World Series of Poker: Tournament of Champions World Series of Poker 2008: Battle for the Bracelets
Activision  0.16
Activision  0.05





Soldier of Fortune: Payback

Soldier of Fortune: Payback
Activision  0.14
Activision  0.06





Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009

Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009
Activision  0.12
Activision  0.06





Fracture

Fracture
LucasArts  0.11
LucasArts  0.05





History Channel Civil War: Secret Missions
History Channel Civil War: Secret Missions
Activision  0.08
Activision  0.06





Monsters vs. Aliens

Monsters vs. Aliens
Activision  0.05
Activision  0.04





SCORE International Baja 1000

SCORE International Baja 1000: The Official Game
Activision  0.01
Activision  0.01

 

Total 360 Copies - 31.12 million (360 Attach Rate = 1.01), 1.30 million average sold per game
Total PS3 Copies - 12.76 (PS3 Attach Rate = 0.56), 0.53 million average sold per game

* Note - Reminder that these numbers only account for multiplatform releases to compare the PS3 to its competitor

 

@ Username2023

I'm guessing your comment about PS3 software selling better was not referring to Activison games? You'll see none of these games outsold the 360 (well maybe Baja 1000 since they look tied :) )

Xbox 360
PS3
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Activision  7.49 20th Jun 09 Activision  4.35 20th Jun 09







Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
RedOctane  4.23 20th Jun 09 RedOctane  1.88 20th Jun 09







Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
LucasArts  3.36 20th Jun 09 LucasArts  0.56 20th Jun 09







Kung Fu Panda

Kung Fu Panda
Activision  2.95 10th Jun 08 Activision  0.37 10th Jun 08







Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Activision  2.45 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.29 20th Jun 09







Call of Duty 3

Call of Duty 3
Activision  2.31 12th Apr 08 Activision  0.67 20th Jun 09







Guitar Hero: World Tour
Guitar Hero: World Tour
Activision  2 16th Apr 09 Activision  1.21 20th Jun 09







007: Quantum of Solace
007: Quantum of Solace
Activision  0.94 24th Mar 09 Activision  0.67 20th Jun 09







Guitar Hero: Aerosmith
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith
Activision  0.86 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.52 20th Jun 09







Transformers: The Game
Transformers: The Game
Activision  0.74 21st Jun 09 Activision  0.27 20th Jun 09







Spider-Man 3 

Spider-Man 3 
Activision  0.74 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.27 20th Jun 09







Tony Hawk's Project 8
Tony Hawk's Project 8
Activision  0.67 16th Jun 09 Activision  0.17 20th Jun 09







Tony Hawk's Proving Ground
Tony Hawk's Proving Ground
Activision  0.45 18th Oct 08 Activision  0.31 20th Jun 09







Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Activision  0.36 12th May 08 Activision  0.28 12th May 08







X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Uncaged Edition X-Men Origins: Wolverine - Uncaged Edition
Activision Blizzard  0.32 20th Jun 09 Activision Blizzard  0.29 20th Jun 09







Spider-Man: Web of Shadows
Spider-Man: Web of Shadows
Activision  0.29 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.15 20th Jun 09







[Prototype]

[Prototype]
Activision  0.29 20th Jun 09 Activision  0.17 20th Jun 09







World Series of Poker: Tournament of Champions World Series of Poker 2008: Battle for the Bracelets
Activision  0.16 06th Jul 07 Activision  0.05 20th Jun 09







Soldier of Fortune: Payback
Soldier of Fortune: Payback
Activision  0.14 20th Nov 07 Activision  0.06 20th Jun 09







Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009
Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 2009
Activision  0.12 13th Oct 08 Activision  0.06 20th Jun 09







Fracture


Fracture

LucasArts  0.11 20th Jun 09 LucasArts  0.05 20th Jun 09







History Channel Civil War: Secret Missions History Channel Civil War: Secret Missions
Activision  0.08 04th Oct 08 Activision  0.06 04th Oct 08







Monsters vs. Aliens

Monsters vs. Aliens
Activision  0.05 26th Jan 09 Activision  0.04 18th Jan 09







SCORE International Baja 1000
SCORE International Baja 1000: The Official Game
Activision  0.01 26th May 09 Activision  0.01 21st Jan 09

7.54 million - that is the amount of lead the 360 got just from lego indiana, kung fu panda, and marvel: ultimate alliance...3 games that are bundeled into 360s. 

41.1% - the percent of the difference between the 360 and the ps3 in terms of software due to the games the are bundeled into 360 console sales but not bundeled into ps3s.

seriously?!?! do you think these numbers are that great when 3 of the top 5 360 games are heavily bundeled and the 360 has an extra year worth of sales (which makes a huge difference on really old games like CoD 3).

 

Moot point... even if we took out those numbers (31.12 million - 7.54 million = 23.58 m), the 360 number ends up being almost double the PS3 number and the attach rate is 0.77(360) vs. 0.53(PS3).


Your argument doesn't prove anything, it still shows Activision titles struggling on the PS3.



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