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Forums - Gaming - Final Fantasy 13 vs Tales of Graces

dahuman on 22 June 2009
Soriku said:
outlawauron said:
Soriku said:
It's still the same going through the whole Attack, Item, Magic, and whatever else they use (Summons for example) menu. Every game. They add a couple twists, but so does Tales. And that's for FF1-FF10. FF XII is the one that really changed. FF XIII seems to take some inspiration from FF XII.

Job system? Materia? Junctioning? FF2's exlcusion of leveling up?

I mean, you're really marginalizing here.

And you're giving too much credit for them taking the series 3D whenever Square did it in 1997.


Yes, they add twists, but the core battle system is the same. Scroll through menus every time. Isn't that what you said about Tales, that the core system is the same?

Also, I'm only giving them credit more than FF because it's an action RPG and an action RPG would change more from the 3D jump than a turn based one where you stay in the same area the whole time. So for FF it'd be just updated models and stuff, but you're not changing the battle system drastically by doing that.

The thing about Tales combat in general is that you can play it as an Action RPG, Action/TurnBased RPG, or a Turn Based RPG. Advanced Players would do option 2 while the Beginners would do 1 or 3. You also have to do more stradegy placements and spell managerment. It's been more advanced since 2D and is no different after it went 3D, not to mention the improvements they've made after they went 3D free roaming style. ToS2 and ToV actually inherited from ToI which never went outside of Japan, and ToG is another take to the system after those systems as well, Tales combat is constantly evolving.



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outlawauron on 22 June 2009
Soriku said:
outlawauron said:
Soriku said:
It's still the same going through the whole Attack, Item, Magic, and whatever else they use (Summons for example) menu. Every game. They add a couple twists, but so does Tales. And that's for FF1-FF10. FF XII is the one that really changed. FF XIII seems to take some inspiration from FF XII.

Job system? Materia? Junctioning? FF2's exlcusion of leveling up?

I mean, you're really marginalizing here.

And you're giving too much credit for them taking the series 3D whenever Square did it in 1997.


Yes, they add twists, but the core battle system is the same. Scroll through menus every time. Isn't that what you said about Tales, that the core system is the same?

Also, I'm only giving them credit more than FF because it's an action RPG and an action RPG would change more from the 3D jump than a turn based one where you stay in the same area the whole time. So for FF it'd be just updated models and stuff, but you're not changing the battle system drastically by doing that.

Jobs/Materia/Junctioning change the core of the battles. Your strengths, skills, and everything depend on it. Where as you have artes, equipment, and abilities in most RPGs.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

dahuman on 22 June 2009
outlawauron said:
Soriku said:
outlawauron said:
Soriku said:
It's still the same going through the whole Attack, Item, Magic, and whatever else they use (Summons for example) menu. Every game. They add a couple twists, but so does Tales. And that's for FF1-FF10. FF XII is the one that really changed. FF XIII seems to take some inspiration from FF XII.

Job system? Materia? Junctioning? FF2's exlcusion of leveling up?

I mean, you're really marginalizing here.

And you're giving too much credit for them taking the series 3D whenever Square did it in 1997.


Yes, they add twists, but the core battle system is the same. Scroll through menus every time. Isn't that what you said about Tales, that the core system is the same?

Also, I'm only giving them credit more than FF because it's an action RPG and an action RPG would change more from the 3D jump than a turn based one where you stay in the same area the whole time. So for FF it'd be just updated models and stuff, but you're not changing the battle system drastically by doing that.

Jobs/Materia/Junctioning change the core of the battles. Your strengths, skills, and everything depend on it. Where as you have artes, equipment, and abilities in most RPGs.

a lot of JRPGs have those type of systems, just named or done differently. FF happens to have some of the more interesting ones, and it's needed imo so it can stand out more vs other turn based JRPGs.



the_bloodwalker on 22 June 2009

Unfortunately my hopes for FFXIII are really really low. The series went downhill after FFX in my opinion. The later games didn't feeel like a Final Fantasy game after all the ones I played (played since FFI on NES). While I consider them to be good games, they lost the path that had me pretty much interested in the series. I believe the later games became a cinematic story with a game in it rather than a game with a story. The graphics are amazing, the combat look awesome.... but the appeal is not one of a FF game but from another RPG. I'm starting to think that if the game was not called a FF, it will not have that boom and hype, you know.

For the tales Series, I played since Phantasia and it has been a breath of fresh air. While the story is not as solid as the FF series (and in many cases is soooo predictable V_V). I have been most impressed how they have focused on the battle system because there is still much more room for new ideas while keeping what isn't broken. Putting Dawn of the new World aside (good game but it had "recycled spinoff" written in many places) the series has evolved nicely and improving in time and my interest has been constant. (need to get an Xbox360 or PS3 to play Vesperia though)

My take I expect more from Tales of Graces than FFXIII even though the later will be a huge, HUGE seller



dahuman on 22 June 2009
Soriku said:

That's not what I mean. Jobs/Materia/Junctioning is just another take on the battle system. Like free roam, sidestepping, stride shift (IDK if it's actually called that but it's something used in Rebirth where you can switch planes in battle) and whatever in Tales. The battles depend on those. If you don't use them you won't get anywhere, just like Jobs/Materia/Junctioning. While you still do the whole menu thing in FF, and in Tales you do the whole encounter and use artes and magic and stuff with your party to beat your enemy.

There are equipments or gem combos etc in different Tales games that would give you different bonuses as well, it's pretty standard in JRPGs, the difference is how they are implemented. Most JRPGs(not SRPG mind you, or something crazy like Chrono Cross which is another damn good game) also give you about 8 characters to use on average that'd cover your job needs.



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outlawauron on 23 June 2009
dahuman said:
outlawauron said:
Soriku said:
outlawauron said:
Soriku said:
It's still the same going through the whole Attack, Item, Magic, and whatever else they use (Summons for example) menu. Every game. They add a couple twists, but so does Tales. And that's for FF1-FF10. FF XII is the one that really changed. FF XIII seems to take some inspiration from FF XII.

Job system? Materia? Junctioning? FF2's exlcusion of leveling up?

I mean, you're really marginalizing here.

And you're giving too much credit for them taking the series 3D whenever Square did it in 1997.


Yes, they add twists, but the core battle system is the same. Scroll through menus every time. Isn't that what you said about Tales, that the core system is the same?

Also, I'm only giving them credit more than FF because it's an action RPG and an action RPG would change more from the 3D jump than a turn based one where you stay in the same area the whole time. So for FF it'd be just updated models and stuff, but you're not changing the battle system drastically by doing that.

Jobs/Materia/Junctioning change the core of the battles. Your strengths, skills, and everything depend on it. Where as you have artes, equipment, and abilities in most RPGs.

a lot of JRPGs have those type of systems, just named or done differently. FF happens to have some of the more interesting ones, and it's needed imo so it can stand out more vs other turn based JRPGs.

Exactly. Square usually does it first though. That's why I said it was innovative. It wasn't done before.

@ Soriku

The ability to choose where you move is not innovation.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

Garamond on 23 June 2009

Suikoden VI will beat them both.

Really badly.

They'll have to go to the hospital while Suikoden VI fights for the World Championship against Little Mac and wins with a single knock-out blow.

Nobody will stop this Suikoden game that has yet to even be announced!



dahuman on 23 June 2009
outlawauron said:
dahuman said:
outlawauron said:
Soriku said:
outlawauron said:
Soriku said:
It's still the same going through the whole Attack, Item, Magic, and whatever else they use (Summons for example) menu. Every game. They add a couple twists, but so does Tales. And that's for FF1-FF10. FF XII is the one that really changed. FF XIII seems to take some inspiration from FF XII.

Job system? Materia? Junctioning? FF2's exlcusion of leveling up?

I mean, you're really marginalizing here.

And you're giving too much credit for them taking the series 3D whenever Square did it in 1997.


Yes, they add twists, but the core battle system is the same. Scroll through menus every time. Isn't that what you said about Tales, that the core system is the same?

Also, I'm only giving them credit more than FF because it's an action RPG and an action RPG would change more from the 3D jump than a turn based one where you stay in the same area the whole time. So for FF it'd be just updated models and stuff, but you're not changing the battle system drastically by doing that.

Jobs/Materia/Junctioning change the core of the battles. Your strengths, skills, and everything depend on it. Where as you have artes, equipment, and abilities in most RPGs.

a lot of JRPGs have those type of systems, just named or done differently. FF happens to have some of the more interesting ones, and it's needed imo so it can stand out more vs other turn based JRPGs.

Exactly. Square usually does it first though. That's why I said it was innovative. It wasn't done before.

@ Soriku

The ability to choose where you move is not innovation.

hasn't been the case in awhile =/ it's sad for me to say this but they are not what they used to be T_T



Son1x on 23 June 2009
Garamond said:
Suikoden VI will beat them both.

Really badly.

They'll have to go to the hospital while Suikoden VI fights for the World Championship against Little Mac and wins with a single knock-out blow.

Nobody will stop this Suikoden game that has yet to even be announced!


Until Lunar 3 arrives. Now that beast will take on every JRPG around :)

Unless its sucky and doesn't really follow the Lunar's much, kinda like DS one, but then we wouldn't count it as 3rd one.



"And yet, I've realized that maybe living a "decent" life means you won't ever have a "good" life."

 

outlawauron on 23 June 2009
Soriku said:
But we aren't talking about innovation...just changes. Both series have changed.

Plus FF XIII doesn't have a system like Jobs/Materia/Junctioning, so...

Actually we have no idea what FF13 is doing, but removing leveling and experience is a big change from recent FFs.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.