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Forums - Nintendo - What do you think about nintendo making games easiers to casual audience?

theRepublic said:
KungKras said:
Nick said:
KungKras said:
I think Nintendo has got it wrong. It's not the difficulcy that is the problem, it's the LEARNING CURVE. Hell I got into games because of the most Hardcore (by the definition that the game has many hardcore players and tournaments etc) and difficult game ever, Starcraft. How could I play this game as a kid with no experience of games? It's really easy to learn, like most Blizzard games, but then becomes more complex.

Good games are easy to learn but hard to master. Nintendo games used to be like this too, but sadly it seems like that's changing.

 

How exactly?  This in no way effects how hard the game is to master. 

Mario Kart Wii is one of those games where the Easy to learn hard to master concept has taken a hit. The same concept in Twilight princess has also taken damage if you compare it to Wind Waker.

About the New Super Mario Bros, I was under the impression that the game would play itself, but now that I have read the thread, that might not be the case.

You are going to have to elaborate on the MK Wii and Twilight Princess thing for me.  I still think that easy to learn hard to master concept still applies to Nintendo games.

Sure. From what I have heard, the drifting (something that was very skill-based) doesn't work the same, and considering the power of som of the weapons you can get randomly, the game is very randomized. I don't find it dissapointing in that particular game, because it would be boring for new players to constantly get pwnd online, but still, less depth when it comes to skill.

 

As for Twilight princess, the changes are really dissapointing. The combat and the boss fights is much easier. Too easy, to the point where you don't get any adrenaline what so ever, even in an epic boss fight. This would be fine if it only applied to the first bosses to make a nice learning curve that will challenge players in the end, but the bosses and most combat remains too easy throughout the game, thus easy to play, easy to master.

   The puzzles are what I like the least of the changes from WW and OoT. In Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time, any of your Items could be useful. You never knew which Item you had to use, and had to use logic to figure it out in most parts. But in Twilight Princess, there is a clear pattern.Search for Item in dungeon, then only use that item from there on in that dungeonl. Even worse, many items become obsolete after you have cleared that dungeon, like the anomator wand, and the gear thingy. Overall, the puzzles and combat are much easier to master in Twilight Princess.

 

I thought that this would repeat itself in New Super Mario Bros Wii, since I thought that there would be an option to let the game play itself. This would make the game much easier, even in the more complicated levels removing the need to know how to play the game. However, as I have understood it now, this guide is just a demo, that shows you how to play, and then you are back to were you started the demo, and this seems like a pretty neat idea since it makes it harder to get stuck because something isn't obvious enough, thus making the game easier to play, but just as hard to master.



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KungKras said:

Sure. From what I have heard, the drifting (something that was very skill-based) doesn't work the same, and considering the power of som of the weapons you can get randomly, the game is very randomized. I don't find it dissapointing in that particular game, because it would be boring for new players to constantly get pwnd online, but still, less depth when it comes to skill.

So you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about then? Cool. I like it when people just admit that upfront. They changed the drifting mechanics, yes. This does not remove the skill at all though. Drifting requires a new set of skills for timing it for maximum boost. Wheelies require proper timing, track knowledge, and the ability to drop one if the situation looks to turn bad. The items arguement is just ludicrous though. None of the new items even come close to being as useful as Bullet Bill which was introduced in MK:DS and made significantly weaker in MK:Wii. All the best items iin MK:Wii are found in previous versions without a single exception. Tricks add another fun twist in trying to perfect a course making it the second entirely new type of skill required for mastery.

 For the record, I had a much more difficult time getting 3 stars on every course in MK:Wii than I did with MK:DS. The mechanics work differently, and getting the hang of 11 other monkeys flinging crap at me while I am in first rather than 7 took some time to adjust to. Try playing the game before you even attempt to comment on whether or not it requires skill to master.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

I love the idea, what's wrong with letting new playrs enjoy a game while keeping the challenge intact for experienced gamers?



The people complaining about this is are honestly stupid.

This means Nintendo can make games HARDER now, because they won't have to worry about casuals getting stuck and giving up. Now they can focus on making the game how they want without having to worry every 5 minutes about whether or not your kid sister can beat a certain boss or something.

I'm amazed no one has actually bothered to do this before. 

In the future I suspect that you'll have like a "virtual" assistant character that can pop up onto the screen and show you how to control the game, answer questions, give you tips, etc. built right into the OS of the Wii 2. 

How is this really any different anyone from the people (and most gamers, even hardcore players do this) go online to read an FAQ or go onto Youtube and "cheat" that way? This just makes help accessible to the people who need help the most -- novice and casual gamers. 

This may allow someone who would never try to complete something like Super Mario Galaxy or a new Zelda to experience the entire game and in the process gain a new appreciation for core gaming and eventually build their own gaming skills. Did you ever think of that? If this helps even 100 people total experience and enjoy a game they otherwise would have been too intimidated to try or would have given up after 10 minutes otherwise ... that's a good thing. 

 



KungKras said:

Sure. From what I have heard, the drifting (something that was very skill-based) doesn't work the same, and considering the power of som of the weapons you can get randomly, the game is very randomized. I don't find it dissapointing in that particular game, because it would be boring for new players to constantly get pwnd online, but still, less depth when it comes to skill.

Seriously, play the game first. I can place in first almost every race. Sure there is the occasional get screwed by the items, but the vast majority of the time I get beat it is because the other guy has a flawless race.




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Ok, I get the point. I am really happy to have been proven wrong about Mario Kart, I guess I just asked the wrong sources to find out if it was as good as MK64. Well, the game just climbed my get-for-wii-game-list. I guess I will never ever rely on reviews by game sites again, because that's where I got it from. I feel kinda dumb for even mentioning it.

I hope Zelda Twilight Princess is just an isolated instance then, because I have played that game, many times.



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KungKras said:
I hope Zelda Twilight Princess is just an isolated instance then, because I have played that game, many times.

Well, I can only assume the game is not as "bad" as you describe it, as you played it many times ;)

Come on... it might not be... let's call it "out of this planet" as other Zeldas... but is still one of the best games this gen.



     

 

Gnizmo said:

KungKras said:

Sure. From what I have heard, the drifting (something that was very skill-based) doesn't work the same, and considering the power of som of the weapons you can get randomly, the game is very randomized. I don't find it dissapointing in that particular game, because it would be boring for new players to constantly get pwnd online, but still, less depth when it comes to skill.

So you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about then? Cool. I like it when people just admit that upfront. They changed the drifting mechanics, yes. This does not remove the skill at all though. Drifting requires a new set of skills for timing it for maximum boost. Wheelies require proper timing, track knowledge, and the ability to drop one if the situation looks to turn bad. The items arguement is just ludicrous though. None of the new items even come close to being as useful as Bullet Bill which was introduced in MK:DS and made significantly weaker in MK:Wii. All the best items iin MK:Wii are found in previous versions without a single exception. Tricks add another fun twist in trying to perfect a course making it the second entirely new type of skill required for mastery.

 For the record, I had a much more difficult time getting 3 stars on every course in MK:Wii than I did with MK:DS. The mechanics work differently, and getting the hang of 11 other monkeys flinging crap at me while I am in first rather than 7 took some time to adjust to. Try playing the game before you even attempt to comment on whether or not it requires skill to master.

Lol.  Very well said.  I was going to offer him the opportunity to practice for a week and then come and race me, Brawl 4 Life,amp316, rolstapple, TWroo, Glory or RCT and see how well his argument held up but I think you already took care of his silly argument.



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nordlead said:
Super Mario Bros isn't challenging. I could beat it when I was 5. Anyways, I really don't care about the skip option. I won't be using it so it doesn't affect me. If Nintendo can bring more users into gaming while still providing games that I enjoy, then I'm all for it. I'm not an elitist hardcore snob who things games shouldn't be played by anyone but other elitist hardcore snobs.

This is the attitude I have as a gamer. Couldn't have put it better.



I hear ya, mate! When Morgan Webb reviewed MK:Wii, I was shocked about the words "rubber band AI" when infact they can use mushroom for boost too! Speaking of that I also would like to say that the items in this are very well balanced than any other MK game in the series! I made come-from-behind-win (win a race from coming out dead last in the last seconds) many thimes in this game than I any other in the series...



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