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Forums - Gaming - Team Ico series has overtaken Zelda as greatest adventure series!! By MM.2.

Avinash_Tyagi on 10 June 2009
Torillian said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
and market preference has nothing to do with quality in general. Yes reviews are opinions, but aggregate those all together and you have something that's probably around the quality of the actual game for most reasonable people.

You also keep ignoring the flaws with your comparing sales to quality. What about the fact that Zelda got more marketting, or that Zelda was a more established franchise when Ico came out, or the difference between available games on the PS2 and Gamecube that might make one more likely to notice a new Zelda than notice Ico on the PS2? All of these things affect sales, and you just ignore them and look at two numbers and denote one as better than the other.

No, because many Wii games get poor reviews but are bought in the millions, you are assuming that the reviewers opinion is reasonable, when in fact as the market showm they are often the odd men out when it comes to the Wii.

Ah but when Zelda first came out there was no established franchise and yet it sold, if Ico didn't get marketing well that probably shows they didn't have any faith in Ico.

 

Ok lets take Wii and PS3 and 360 as an example, 360 and PS3 both had marketing and even came out before or at the same time as Wii, yet Wii thundered ahead, even as reviewers argued that Wii was not as good as 360 and PS3, but the fact is the market preferred Wii and Wii has dominated to this day

Which is all fact, but then you take the logic leap that this means that the Wii is better.  What about the price at launch, the Wii's popularity among talk shows?  There are always a plethora of things that affect sales that have nothing to do with quality.

Price means nothing, as shown by the GCN being cheaper than the Xbox and PS2.  Talk shows talked about Wii because they preferred it, the market bought it because they preferred it, people went to each others houses and loved it and bought it for themselves, and it continues

And this only shows market preference.  The market buys more McDonald's Cheeseburgers than they do Sirloin steak, does that mean the cheeseburger is better?

I'm vegetarian so I don't know, what I do know is that the market clearly shows a preference for cheeseburgers over steaks, and that the cheesburgers sell more



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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Avinash_Tyagi on 10 June 2009
pearljammer said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
pearljammer said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Sorry, but saying a game is better is purely subjective, one person may love Ico and another may hate it, so yes I am implying that sales and profits are the only important measures of a game, because it is objective, a game either sells a certain amount or it doesn't, it either makes a profit or it doesn't

I would say that's it's how much the game is revered among the people who have played it moreso than it is simply how much it has sold.

A difficult thing to measure, I'm sure, but the correlation between sales and quality isn't near strong enough to talk in absolutes, as mentioned already by werekitten.

If we were to do so, Mariah Carey's Music Box would be considered better than every single Beatles album.

OT: I agree with Benga, this thread is pretty damn funny.

Wii continues to sell like hotcakes, PS3 and 360 languish far behind, even three years after its release Wii continues to sell better than historical trends, even as "reviewers" lambast it, the market has shown that Wii is preferred over the other consoles.

 

Sales and profits are the most important measure in the industry

I agree with you there, it's undeniable, but am unsure what that has to do with quality. Simply because a market prefers something does not make it of higher quality.

I mean, this could be stretched to any medium. Is Shrek The Third revered moreso than Citizen Kane? In fact, by that logic, the majority of the films that came out over the past year have been better than Citizen Kane, including Beverly Hills Chihuahua.

By that argument quality is merely opinion, and sales show the market's opinion



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Khuutra on 10 June 2009

Who the Hell mentioned Stephen King in here?

That's ironic, because Stephen King said the idea that popularity is indicative of any kind of higher literary merit is self-important hogwash and does not reflect reality at all. It's just justification for popular writers to feel better about themselves.



theRepublic on 10 June 2009

@ those claiming reviewers decide quality, here is the answer

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 97.61
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess(GC) - 95.29
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 94.68
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess(Wii) - 94.45
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past(SNES) - 93.50
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask - 92.82
The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition - 92.77
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages - 91.89
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past(GBA) - 91.77
Shadow of the Colossus - 91.68
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons - 91.50
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX - 90.85
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap - 90.43
Ico - 90.13

That is a lot of Zelda before you get to Shadow of the Colossus and Ico.

By the way, I don't really agree that reviews or a compilation of review scores are the best indicators of quality.



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coolestguyever on 10 June 2009

So your saying a series with 2 games that are considered great and a third coming is better than a series that's been around since the 80's with multiple games each generation?

Whatver works for you I guess.



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Torillian on 10 June 2009
theRepublic said:
@ those claiming reviewers decide quality, here is the answer

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 97.61
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess(GC) - 95.29
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 94.68
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess(Wii) - 94.45
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past(SNES) - 93.50
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask - 92.82
The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition - 92.77
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages - 91.89
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past(GBA) - 91.77
Shadow of the Colossus - 91.68
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons - 91.50
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX - 90.85
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap - 90.43
Ico - 90.13

That is a lot of Zelda before you get to Shadow of the Colossus and Ico.

By the way, I don't really agree that reviews or a compilation of review scores are the best indicators of quality.

Absolutely I agree that most people will denote Zelda as better than Team Ico.  That isn't why I'm making this argument, I just dislike the argument that sales are directly related to quality and serve as an easy measure of such.  I am not arguing to try and find a way that Team Ico is better.  I have already weighed in on that matter, Zelda is better in general public opinion, Team Ico is better in my personal opinion.



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ROBOTECHHEAVEN on 10 June 2009

not a chance in hell, could ico or any of their games , ever overtake a zelda game or the series. :)



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megaman.2. on 10 June 2009
ROBOTECHHEAVEN said:
not a chance in hell, could ico or any of their games , ever overtake a zelda game or the series. :)

The last guardian says other wise



<embed src="http://card.mygamercard.net/gears2goty/omar7700.swf" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="198" height="135">
</embed>

TowlieFTW on 10 June 2009

The Last Guardian looks terrible...



theRepublic on 10 June 2009
Torillian said:
theRepublic said:
@ those claiming reviewers decide quality, here is the answer

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 97.61
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess(GC) - 95.29
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 94.68
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess(Wii) - 94.45
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past(SNES) - 93.50
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask - 92.82
The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition - 92.77
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages - 91.89
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past(GBA) - 91.77
Shadow of the Colossus - 91.68
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons - 91.50
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX - 90.85
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap - 90.43
Ico - 90.13

That is a lot of Zelda before you get to Shadow of the Colossus and Ico.

By the way, I don't really agree that reviews or a compilation of review scores are the best indicators of quality.

Absolutely I agree that most people will denote Zelda as better than Team Ico.  That isn't why I'm making this argument, I just dislike the argument that sales are directly related to quality and serve as an easy measure of such.  I am not arguing to try and find a way that Team Ico is better.  I have already weighed in on that matter, Zelda is better in general public opinion, Team Ico is better in my personal opinion.

Your argument that reviewers are a better indicator of quality is just as bad.  Especially since gaming criticism is generally piss-poor.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
Mobile - Super Mario Run (2017)
PC - Borderlands 2 (2012)
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)