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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Team Ico series has overtaken Zelda as greatest adventure series!! By MM.2.

Avinash_Tyagi on 10 June 2009
pearljammer said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Sorry, but saying a game is better is purely subjective, one person may love Ico and another may hate it, so yes I am implying that sales and profits are the only important measures of a game, because it is objective, a game either sells a certain amount or it doesn't, it either makes a profit or it doesn't

I would say that's it's how much the game is revered among the people who have played it moreso than it is simply how much it has sold.

A difficult thing to measure, I'm sure, but the correlation between sales and quality isn't near strong enough to talk in absolutes, as mentioned already by werekitten.

If we were to do so, Mariah Carey's Music Box would be considered better than every single Beatles album.

OT: I agree with Benga, this thread is pretty damn funny.

Wii continues to sell like hotcakes, PS3 and 360 languish far behind, even three years after its release Wii continues to sell better than historical trends, even as "reviewers" lambast it, the market has shown that Wii is preferred over the other consoles.

 

Sales and profits are the most important measure in the industry



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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WereKitten on 10 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:

I don't read stephen King so I can't comment personally, obviously the market likes King's books

Actually our definition of dates is arbitrary, because you cannot take me to see yesterday, or even prove that there was a yesterday, we have created an arbitrary system to work within the confines of what we refer to as memory.

That differs from your 5-seconds old memory of counting the piles of money how, exactly? :) Let's not embark into this, accept that the nature of time is irrelevant.

Statistically games do get better with time as a trend. There's no ambiguity in how I used "time" there.

How come you treat books to "the market likes King's books", but you don't seem to infer "thus King's books are better than Tolstoj's", but you take the extra step from sales to quality for videogames?



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

BringBackChrono on 10 June 2009

Erm, no, "Team Ico Series"( cant even begin to say how idiotic that sounds) has not yet overtaken the Zelda series, And wont in the foreseeable future. Anyone who implies so after two games(we havent played the third one yet, and even three is far from enough) has a blatant bias , or has been deeply affected by some aspect of the Team Ico games which makes it a personal opinion, and not a proclamation, as MM2 likes to foolishly make all the time.



"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murders will foam up about their waist and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

 ....and I'll look down and whisper  "no."  

                                                                   - Rorschach

Avinash_Tyagi on 10 June 2009
Torillian said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
and market preference has nothing to do with quality in general. Yes reviews are opinions, but aggregate those all together and you have something that's probably around the quality of the actual game for most reasonable people.

You also keep ignoring the flaws with your comparing sales to quality. What about the fact that Zelda got more marketting, or that Zelda was a more established franchise when Ico came out, or the difference between available games on the PS2 and Gamecube that might make one more likely to notice a new Zelda than notice Ico on the PS2? All of these things affect sales, and you just ignore them and look at two numbers and denote one as better than the other.

No, because many Wii games get poor reviews but are bought in the millions, you are assuming that the reviewers opinion is reasonable, when in fact as the market showm they are often the odd men out when it comes to the Wii.

Ah but when Zelda first came out there was no established franchise and yet it sold, if Ico didn't get marketing well that probably shows they didn't have any faith in Ico.

 

Ok lets take Wii and PS3 and 360 as an example, 360 and PS3 both had marketing and even came out before or at the same time as Wii, yet Wii thundered ahead, even as reviewers argued that Wii was not as good as 360 and PS3, but the fact is the market preferred Wii and Wii has dominated to this day

Which is all fact, but then you take the logic leap that this means that the Wii is better.  What about the price at launch, the Wii's popularity among talk shows?  There are always a plethora of things that affect sales that have nothing to do with quality.

Price means nothing, as shown by the GCN being cheaper than the Xbox and PS2.  Talk shows talked about Wii because they preferred it, the market bought it because they preferred it, people went to each others houses and loved it and bought it for themselves, and it continues



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Torillian on 10 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Torillian said:
and market preference has nothing to do with quality in general. Yes reviews are opinions, but aggregate those all together and you have something that's probably around the quality of the actual game for most reasonable people.

You also keep ignoring the flaws with your comparing sales to quality. What about the fact that Zelda got more marketting, or that Zelda was a more established franchise when Ico came out, or the difference between available games on the PS2 and Gamecube that might make one more likely to notice a new Zelda than notice Ico on the PS2? All of these things affect sales, and you just ignore them and look at two numbers and denote one as better than the other.

No, because many Wii games get poor reviews but are bought in the millions, you are assuming that the reviewers opinion is reasonable, when in fact as the market showm they are often the odd men out when it comes to the Wii.

Ah but when Zelda first came out there was no established franchise and yet it sold, if Ico didn't get marketing well that probably shows they didn't have any faith in Ico.

 

Ok lets take Wii and PS3 and 360 as an example, 360 and PS3 both had marketing and even came out before or at the same time as Wii, yet Wii thundered ahead, even as reviewers argued that Wii was not as good as 360 and PS3, but the fact is the market preferred Wii and Wii has dominated to this day

Which is all fact, but then you take the logic leap that this means that the Wii is better.  What about the price at launch, the Wii's popularity among talk shows?  There are always a plethora of things that affect sales that have nothing to do with quality.

Price means nothing, as shown by the GCN being cheaper than the Xbox and PS2.  Talk shows talked about Wii because they preferred it, the market bought it because they preferred it, people went to each others houses and loved it and bought it for themselves, and it continues

And this only shows market preference.  The market buys more McDonald's Cheeseburgers than they do Sirloin steak, does that mean the cheeseburger is better?



...

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Avinash_Tyagi on 10 June 2009
WereKitten said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

I don't read stephen King so I can't comment personally, obviously the market likes King's books

Actually our definition of dates is arbitrary, because you cannot take me to see yesterday, or even prove that there was a yesterday, we have created an arbitrary system to work within the confines of what we refer to as memory.

That differs from your 5-seconds old memory of counting the piles of money how, exactly? :) Let's not embark into this, accept that the nature of time is irrelevant.

Statistically games do get better with time as a trend. There's no ambiguity in how I used "time" there.

How come you treat books to "the market likes King's books", but you don't seem to infer "thus King's books are better than Tolstoj's", but you take the extra step from sales to quality for videogames?

 

I've never read either author's books, but its clear that if both are availible on the market, that  the market thinks King is better

No the fact is that time cannot be compared to sales, one day is no better than another, no greater, the nature of time is important in that one cannot prove the nature of time, trends are bsed on how we arbitrarily define time, but one cannot prove that the days that occur in a trend actually existed, since our exstence is confined to the moment we are currently percieving.  One can prove that sales of one game are better than sales of another, that is where the difference is.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

d21lewis on 10 June 2009

Megaman.2., in another thread, I stated that I feared for an attack on your life. I said I would increase security. Now, the deal is off!! I can support your radical views NO MORE!!



kirby007 on 10 June 2009

Somebody give the man a slussy



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

megaman.2. on 10 June 2009
d21lewis said:
Megaman.2., in another thread, I stated that I feared for an attack on your life. I said I would increase security. Now, the deal is off!! I can support your radical views NO MORE!!

looool. Im just entertaining



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pearljammer on 10 June 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
pearljammer said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Sorry, but saying a game is better is purely subjective, one person may love Ico and another may hate it, so yes I am implying that sales and profits are the only important measures of a game, because it is objective, a game either sells a certain amount or it doesn't, it either makes a profit or it doesn't

I would say that's it's how much the game is revered among the people who have played it moreso than it is simply how much it has sold.

A difficult thing to measure, I'm sure, but the correlation between sales and quality isn't near strong enough to talk in absolutes, as mentioned already by werekitten.

If we were to do so, Mariah Carey's Music Box would be considered better than every single Beatles album.

OT: I agree with Benga, this thread is pretty damn funny.

Wii continues to sell like hotcakes, PS3 and 360 languish far behind, even three years after its release Wii continues to sell better than historical trends, even as "reviewers" lambast it, the market has shown that Wii is preferred over the other consoles.

 

Sales and profits are the most important measure in the industry

I agree with you there, it's undeniable, but am unsure what that has to do with quality. Simply because a market prefers something does not make it of higher quality.

I mean, this could be stretched to any medium. Is Shrek The Third revered moreso than Citizen Kane? In fact, by that logic, the majority of the films that came out over the past year have been better than Citizen Kane, including Beverly Hills Chihuahua.