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Forums - Gaming - If Nintendo announces big games at E3...

megaman79 on 06 May 2009
Dodece said:
@trestres

You do understand that blame is a two way street. While your blaming these third party developers you should be pitching a little blame at Nintendo while you are on a rant. Nintendo is just as much as fault for the lack of quality third party titles on their platform as the third party developers themselves.

Nintendo needs to know how to play the game. How to play nice with others. Give the third party developers the support they need. Nintendo needs to pioneer genre development on their console. Nintendo needs to secure exclusives. This has been a issue with Nintendo for years. Basically it is being stingy when it comes to their consoles.

You need to be more upset with Nintendo. They should be purchasing exclusives to ensure their console has the variety and quality its customers deserve. They should be expanding their offerings into mature titles to prove to developers that their console will not be age group defined. They should even be expanding their marketing.

No I am not being an ass. I would like to see Nintendo get over itself, and start working towards having better developer relations. I have owned five Nintendo consoles, and I can tell you how this story plays out. Everyone will relearn the lesson from generations past, and give the next Nintendo a wide berth. You are learning this right now. Nintendo cannot be relied upon to maintain a high quality diverse lineup. They need third party developers for that, and they are just not delivering, and it isn't because the Wii is selling poorly.

I just think it is shameless to blame third party developers when it is just as much if not more so the fault of Nintendo.

 

I think this is a really complicated cluster f---k management problem but seriously wtf do we do about that? Im happy to praise Nintendo for their non formulaic, business lite appearance and structure, after all this is why there games and system designs are so unique, but i just dk whether they really have a clue about business management.

Just remember the floodgates opened, literally and metaphorically, following DQ and MH3, we'll see what happens this yr in the Western markets.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

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Shadowblind on 06 May 2009
Soriku said:
"Namco Bandai decide to announce more casual stuff for the Wii and main projects for the other consoles."

Because Tales of Graces is nothing even though it's the best game Namco's coming out with.


Bingo. Tales of Graces and Klonoa alone show that Namco hasn't abandoned Nintendo and the Wii at all. Two of their greatest series ever imo :D



GOTY Contestants this year: Dead Space 2, Dark Souls, Tales of Graces f. Everything else can suck it.

deadt0m on 06 May 2009
Zucas said:
I use third parties for my niche and unique tastes. They aren't giving me too much on the epic and adventure side like Nintendo does (aside from Conduit and Tales of Graces) but they still give me things like Boom Blox and Klonoa. But yea I think when you own a Nintendo console you own it for Nintendo games. I mean they are one of the best developers if not the best in the industry. It would be hard to own one ever with the hopes of wanting nothing but 3rd party games considering it is all about the first party. Really 3rd party games is just a bonus haha.

That's how I feel too.  There's a smattering of third party stuff I'm interested in, but I bought a Wii for no other reason than to play Nintendo games.  As long as I get Mario and Zelda games, color me satisfied.

 



SnesTea on 06 May 2009

The Conduit, Cursed Mountain, Red Steel 2, and No More Heroes 2 all say hi. Stop whining. If Nintendo doesn't announce anything, I won't care as long as I get updates on those previously mentioned titles.



trestres on 07 May 2009

@Snesboy: Yet none of those games are being made by the third parties I named, save for Red Steel 2, but they Ubi hate is justified, they admitted how wrong they were in their Wii approach.



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies

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griffinA on 07 May 2009
megaman79 said:
Dodece said:
@trestres

You do understand that blame is a two way street. While your blaming these third party developers you should be pitching a little blame at Nintendo while you are on a rant. Nintendo is just as much as fault for the lack of quality third party titles on their platform as the third party developers themselves.

Nintendo needs to know how to play the game. How to play nice with others. Give the third party developers the support they need. Nintendo needs to pioneer genre development on their console. Nintendo needs to secure exclusives. This has been a issue with Nintendo for years. Basically it is being stingy when it comes to their consoles.

You need to be more upset with Nintendo. They should be purchasing exclusives to ensure their console has the variety and quality its customers deserve. They should be expanding their offerings into mature titles to prove to developers that their console will not be age group defined. They should even be expanding their marketing.

No I am not being an ass. I would like to see Nintendo get over itself, and start working towards having better developer relations. I have owned five Nintendo consoles, and I can tell you how this story plays out. Everyone will relearn the lesson from generations past, and give the next Nintendo a wide berth. You are learning this right now. Nintendo cannot be relied upon to maintain a high quality diverse lineup. They need third party developers for that, and they are just not delivering, and it isn't because the Wii is selling poorly.

I just think it is shameless to blame third party developers when it is just as much if not more so the fault of Nintendo.

 

I think this is a really complicated cluster f---k management problem but seriously wtf do we do about that? Im happy to praise Nintendo for their non formulaic, business lite appearance and structure, after all this is why there games and system designs are so unique, but i just dk whether they really have a clue about business management.

Just remember the floodgates opened, literally and metaphorically, following DQ and MH3, we'll see what happens this yr in the Western markets.

Yeah, they're just making money hand-over fist...what do they know about business?

 

OT: If Nintendo didn't announce ANY first-party hames at E3 I wouldn't care. Between Tales of Graces, The Crystal Bearers, Monster Hunter 3, Silent Hill, Muramasa and The Conduit (plus a bunch others), I couldn't be happier this year.  



"Pier was a chef, a gifted and respected chef who made millions selling his dishes to the residents of New York City and Boston, he even had a famous jingle playing in those cities that everyone knew by heart. He also had a restaurant in Los Angeles, but not expecting LA to have such a massive population he only used his name on that restaurant and left it to his least capable and cheapest chefs. While his New York restaurant sold kobe beef for $100 and his Boston restaurant sold lobster for $50, his LA restaurant sold cheap hotdogs for $30. Initially these hot dogs sold fairly well because residents of los angeles were starving for good food and hoped that the famous name would denote a high quality, but most were disappointed with what they ate. Seeing the success of his cheap hot dogs in LA, Pier thought "why bother giving Los Angeles quality meats when I can oversell them on cheap hotdogs forever, and since I don't care about the product anyways, why bother advertising them? So Pier continued to only sell cheap hotdogs in LA and was surprised to see that they no longer sold. Pier's conclusion? Residents of Los Angeles don't like food."

"The so-called "hardcore" gamer is a marketing brainwashed, innovation shunting, self-righteous idiot who pays videogame makers far too much money than what is delivered."

SnesTea on 07 May 2009
trestres said:
@Snesboy: Yet none of those games are being made by the third parties I named, save for Red Steel 2, but they Ubi hate is justified, they admitted how wrong they were in their Wii approach.

At least Ubi supported the Wii to begin with.

 

The other companies you mentioned mean shit to me anyways. They weren't there supporting Wii pre-launch, so they can go die.

 



noname2200 on 07 May 2009
Dodece said:

You need to be more upset with Nintendo. They should be purchasing exclusives to ensure their console has the variety and quality its customers deserve. They should be expanding their offerings into mature titles to prove to developers that their console will not be age group defined. They should even be expanding their marketing.

So basically, it's not enough for Nintendo to provide the cheapest-development-cost console and the fastest-selling console of all time. They also need to:

1) Give third-parties money to get them to make games for the console.

2) Change their core business philosophy of the past thirty years to sway third-parties to maek games for their console.

3) Market games for third-parties on a level equal to what they did for Wii Fit.

 

 

I think you're sorely mistaken. Even if Nintendo did all of these, it would not be enough. I propose that, in addition to your brilliant proposals, Nintendo should also:

4) Do all of the brainstorming and pre-production for third-party games.

5) Devote at least 85% of their internal teams to developing games on behalf of third-parties.

6) Waive all royalty fees for third-parties, just in case the game flops.

7) Lend out all their mascots to third-parties upon request, no questions asked.

8) Make Miyamoto act as a free director/producer/tech support handler for all third-parties, even if this is not requested.

9) Buy an island resort for third-parties to lay back and relax in style and comfort while their games are being made for them.

10) Have Iwata personally wipe the ass of any third-party developer who needs such a service to survive in this cruel industry.

 

So who's with me?! I honestly feel that I'm being a bit too conservative here, and fear that I may have overlooked something. So I'm opening up the floor to everyone now. Feel free to make your own suggestions, people.



Arius Dion on 07 May 2009
noname2200 said:
Dodece said:

You need to be more upset with Nintendo. They should be purchasing exclusives to ensure their console has the variety and quality its customers deserve. They should be expanding their offerings into mature titles to prove to developers that their console will not be age group defined. They should even be expanding their marketing.

So basically, it's not enough for Nintendo to provide the cheapest-development-cost console and the fastest-selling console of all time. They also need to:

1) Give third-parties money to get them to make games for the console.

2) Change their core business philosophy of the past thirty years to sway third-parties to maek games for their console.

3) Market games for third-parties on a level equal to what they did for Wii Fit.

 

 

I think you're sorely mistaken. Even if Nintendo did all of these, it would not be enough. I propose that, in addition to your brilliant proposals, Nintendo should also:

4) Do all of the brainstorming and pre-production for third-party games.

5) Devote at least 85% of their internal teams to developing games on behalf of third-parties.

6) Waive all royalty fees for third-parties, just in case the game flops.

7) Lend out all their mascots to third-parties upon request, no questions asked.

8) Make Miyamoto act as a free director/producer/tech support handler for all third-parties, even if this is not requested.

9) Buy an island resort for third-parties to lay back and relax in style and comfort while their games are being made for them.

10) Have Iwata personally wipe the ass of any third-party developer who needs such a service to survive in this cruel industry.

 

So who's with me?! I honestly feel that I'm being a bit too conservative here, and fear that I may have overlooked something. So I'm opening up the floor to everyone now. Feel free to make your own suggestions, people.

 

 

Exactly. his reasoning is completely off. The way I see it is Third Parties are just leaving alot of money on the table.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

Dodece on 07 May 2009

@tehsage

Actually the opposite is true, but most developers and manufactures for that matter practice decorum. You do not say such things publicly. You say such things behind closed doors. So as to not close doors in the real world. It becomes very difficult to work with someone once you have publicly denounced them. That however doesn't mean you cannot avoid them like the plague.

Which is what a lot of third party developers have done for the previous two console generations. They basically gave Nintendo just enough support to keep them in the race as a phantom threat. The implication was they always could take their games to Nintendo if they did not get a fair shake. Which was a lesson they learned from Nintendo.

I think Nintendo let a golden opportunity slip through their fingers this generation. They should have reworked their image with third party developers. The reality is they do not need a three horse race when the benefit from the third horse is next to nothing. This only lets Sony hang in there, and it will ensure that while Sony might not get the best support. They are probably going to get better then Nintendo.

Nintendo had a chance to usurp the position of Sony with developers as the play off against Microsoft. Just as Microsoft usurped the role of Nintendo. All this means is Nintendo is one bad generation away from a squeeze play. You need the third parties wanting to keep you in the game. That is a ticking time bomb.



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