By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Yahoo: The 'Wii Crash' of 2009

dougsdad0629 said:

Here's PART of the problem with the Wii, IMO. There have obviously been a lot of people buying HDTVs the last couple of years in anticipation of the digital conversion. I know graphics aren't everything, but I didn't pay thousands of dollars for my 52" HDTV just to play games in 480p. I could never own ONLY a Wii. If I had to decide to keep my PS3 or keep my Wii, it's no contest. The Wii would be out the door before you could blink. I think there's at least a small part of the population that is interested in the Wii, but absolutely refuses to buy it because it's SD.

Lol that's silly to say the least.  Why would you be interested in a Wii and not buy it cause it is SD and you have a HDTV?  You do realise that Wii works on HDTVs and displays very very crisply with most HDTVs using a component cable?  Also I am pretty sure there are far far far far far more Wiis being used on HDTVs than there are PS3s being used on HDTVs.  What you've posted is a variation of the ridiculous claim by PS3 owners that PS3 will overtake Wii when HDTVs become more common.

 



Biggest Pikmin Fan on VGChartz I was chosen by default due to voting irregularities

Super Smash Brawl Code 1762-4158-5677 Send me a message if you want to receive a beat down

 

Around the Network
tuoyo said:
dougsdad0629 said:

Here's PART of the problem with the Wii, IMO. There have obviously been a lot of people buying HDTVs the last couple of years in anticipation of the digital conversion. I know graphics aren't everything, but I didn't pay thousands of dollars for my 52" HDTV just to play games in 480p. I could never own ONLY a Wii. If I had to decide to keep my PS3 or keep my Wii, it's no contest. The Wii would be out the door before you could blink. I think there's at least a small part of the population that is interested in the Wii, but absolutely refuses to buy it because it's SD.

l that's silly to say the least.  Why would you be interested in a Wii and not buy it cause it is SD and you have a HDTV?  You do realise that Wii works on HDTVs and displays very very crisply with most HDTVs using a component cable?  Also I am pretty sure there are far far far far far more Wiis being used on HDTVs than there are PS3s being used on HDTVs.  What you've posted is a variation of the ridiculous claim by PS3 owners that PS3 will overtake Wii when HDTVs become more common.

 

 

Because just most people do not know. I was considering a Wii very seriously some time back to my PS3. (I bought my HDTV just because of the PS3).

But, and that is maybe the main difference, I played a little bit on the Wii (Wii Sports) before really buying it and I was really disappointed. All these funny videos from Advertising the Wii were not the same what I experienced. Wii Sports Tennis was lame, not a fraction of tactics (I was used to Virtua Tennis 3), Wii Sports Boxing and Fight Night 3 was no match in motivation. It was fun for 5 minutes but then already it became boring... So I did not buy at the end, sometimes I reconsider but at the end I am always feel the same disappointment...

Now I have the Guitar Hero Series on my PS3, with Drums, Guitars and Mic, and I feel satified with this Family Game. I hope something like Wii Fit will come to the PS3, or like the Eyetoy games from the PS2, that it still lacking and I do not know why nobody at Sony puts more effort on it. But I would NEVER exchange a PS3 for a Wii.

I am missing the Wii casual games on the PS3 somehow, BUT I could never be without MGS4, GT5P, Killzone2 etc...



Software is like Sex, it is better when it is free!

Laffer said:
The Wii sales were always a miracle for me, but at a time it has to come to an end. The hardware is outdated and ridicolous keeping in mind the price tag. It is the power of the Playstation 2 for more than twice the price.

Nintendo took the family games invented by Sony and marketed them right. All this Wii Sports Stuff etc was existing before in some form on the PS2 using the PS2's Webcam Playstation Eye.

I could never understand why Sony always (up until now) underestimates what they somehow created (Family Games). Friends of mine were playing FITNESS Games already several years ago with their PS2 and the Playstation Eyecam.

The biggest part of Wii buyers are casual gamers without any technical knowledge about the platform. They do not know about Full-HD etc. Of course there are also a lot of Fanboys from former Nintendo Consoles, but already the Gamecube was no match for the PS2 or XBOX.

The real gamers which have 20+ games and regulary are buying games are not the Wii Clients, but people owning "real" consoles like PS3 and XBOX360.

To create complex long motivation games, the Wii is not a serious platform because of the Hardware Limitations.

So having other Games than Wii Sports and Wii Fit up to the Top Sales slots would surprise me. Nintendo is lucky because they can already make money out of the Hardware. If not, things would not look that rosy....

But now Wii Sales may start to decline but I doubt that I Wii 2 would save it...

1. No.

2. Sony invented family gaming?  If you are in fact 40 as your profile suggests i can only assume you were in a coma for the first 35 years.

3. Show me the proof, this is unsubstantiated fluff.

4. The Gamecube was no match for these systems how?  In sales compared to the PS2, i'll pay that but the Xbox only marginally outsold the Gamecube.  If you are talking in technical terms, it was mid-way between the two, so wrong again.

5. Real, is this the new hardcore?  I think you'll find plenty of real gamers on this website who play alot of games and are Wii clients.

6.  I don't even know what this means but hardware limitations will nearly always take a backseat to creative limitations.

7.  If Nintendo is 'lucky' as you put it, then they have been lucky for over a hundred years, making it the luckiest company in the history of the world.  While some call it luck, most call it good business sense.

8. Wii sales WILL start to decline but it's also quite possible that they MAY start to rise first.

 



@hsrob:

1.) You think the Wii Hardware is state of the art?

2.) See this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EyeToy_games
And I apologize they inventited widespread Family Games on the CONSOLE, it was wrong to say that they invented family games as general term. But I thought it was clear from the context. Yes Nintendo was first in Japan and has a long history about the japanese Card game HANAFUDA..

3.) The most Wii owner I knew do not know something about FullHD, HDMI, etc.

4.) Hardwarewise the Gamecube was no match to the PS2 or XBOX. Of course because of the low price they sold quite a lot. I remember the Zelda series, which was quite good game, but textures were ridicolous compared to the other consoles. But there were quite good games. On the quality of game content they matched the others on many areas, I agree, but from image quality point of view....

5.) Let's say it otherwise: People discussing here are already a very limited population, people here are Hardcore Games and Fanboys, not the casual Gamers. The casual Gamers go not to post in Forums about their consoles. So, of course the People here a Wii Hardcore Gamers or Fanboys (not as negative term used here). But the majority of Wii buyers are just NOT YOU, but the people which would never know Sites like vgchartz. So you are the Elite, the exception to the standard Wii users, for PS3 and XBOX360 I think this is quite different. To expensive for leisure suit larry.

6.) I agree partly, but Gran Turismo 5 would be impossible on a Wii. Many games can not even realized on the Wii which exist on the others. And often even when they exist, they share the same name, but the Wii version is just a shadow of the other versions.

7.) Of course they are, but they had already tough years, the PS2 put them almost out of business. They wanted even to leave the Console Hardware business after the Gamecube and concentrate on software, because they could not finance to develop a NextGen console. But they made an incredible clever move which turned into an incredible success.

8.) They may... I agree, and I think they will, but this will not continue very long anymore...





Software is like Sex, it is better when it is free!

hsrob said:
Laffer said:
The Wii sales were always a miracle for me, but at a time it has to come to an end. The hardware is outdated and ridicolous keeping in mind the price tag. It is the power of the Playstation 2 for more than twice the price.

Nintendo took the family games invented by Sony and marketed them right. All this Wii Sports Stuff etc was existing before in some form on the PS2 using the PS2's Webcam Playstation Eye.

I could never understand why Sony always (up until now) underestimates what they somehow created (Family Games). Friends of mine were playing FITNESS Games already several years ago with their PS2 and the Playstation Eyecam.

The biggest part of Wii buyers are casual gamers without any technical knowledge about the platform. They do not know about Full-HD etc. Of course there are also a lot of Fanboys from former Nintendo Consoles, but already the Gamecube was no match for the PS2 or XBOX.

The real gamers which have 20+ games and regulary are buying games are not the Wii Clients, but people owning "real" consoles like PS3 and XBOX360.

To create complex long motivation games, the Wii is not a serious platform because of the Hardware Limitations.

So having other Games than Wii Sports and Wii Fit up to the Top Sales slots would surprise me. Nintendo is lucky because they can already make money out of the Hardware. If not, things would not look that rosy....

But now Wii Sales may start to decline but I doubt that I Wii 2 would save it...

1. No.

2. Sony invented family gaming?  If you are in fact 40 as your profile suggests i can only assume you were in a coma for the first 35 years.

3. Show me the proof, this is unsubstantiated fluff.

4. The Gamecube was no match for these systems how?  In sales compared to the PS2, i'll pay that but the Xbox only marginally outsold the Gamecube.  If you are talking in technical terms, it was mid-way between the two, so wrong again.

5. Real, is this the new hardcore?  I think you'll find plenty of real gamers on this website who play alot of games and are Wii clients.

6.  I don't even know what this means but hardware limitations will nearly always take a backseat to creative limitations.

7.  If Nintendo is 'lucky' as you put it, then they have been lucky for over a hundred years, making it the luckiest company in the history of the world.  While some call it luck, most call it good business sense.

8. Wii sales WILL start to decline but it's also quite possible that they MAY start to rise first.

 

I also want to have a stab at Laffer.

1. Wii is more powerful than the GC, which was more powerful than the PS2.

2. Even if Nintendo "stole" Sony's "family games", then they still wouldn't be even for the clear copying Sony has done, i.e. the analog stick, Motion sensing (Powerglove, Woot.), the basic controller design for the Playstation was taken from the SNES design.

3. Really? Friends of mine were using the Powerpad way before Sony decided to get into gaming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Pad So no, Sony did not create fitness games. Stop BSing.

4. I have full knowledge of the techinal capabilities of gaming consoles, as do all of the Wii owners I know.

5. Already been mentioned.

6. Zelda. Metroid Prime 3. Two right there.

7. I don't know what you meant. At all. Um.. Yeah, all I can say is that Nintendo is good at buisness.

8. I doubt that.



Around the Network

There were fitness games, family games, and educational games on the NES buddy.



@Batman...WTF?

1.) From Wikipedia:



    * PowerPC G3 based 3-way superscalar RISC core
    * 485 MHz
    * 32-bit Integer unit
    * 64-bit double precision FPU, usable as 2×32-bit SIMD for 1.9 single-precision Gflops performance
    * Roughly 50 new SIMD instructions, geared towards 3D graphics
    * 64-bit enhanced 60x bus to GPU/chipset at 162 MHz clock with 1.3 GB/s peak bandwidth
    * 64 kB 8-way associative L1 cache (32/32 kB instruction/data). 256 KB on-die, 2-way associative L2 cache
    * 1125 DMIPS (dhrystone 2.1)
    * 180 nm IBM six layer, copper-wire process. 43 mm² die
    * 1.8 V for logic and I/O. 4.9 W dissipation
    * 27×27 mm PBGA package with 256 contacts

 

System memory:

System memory:

    * 43 MB total non-unified RAM
    * 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM (codenamed "Splash") main system RAM. 324 MHz, 64-bit bus. 2.7 GB/s bandwidth.[8]
    * 3 MB embedded 1T-SRAM within "Flipper"".[9]
          o Split into 1 MB texture buffer and 2 MB frame buffer.[9]

    *
          o 10.4 GB/s texture bandwidth (peak). 7.6 GB/s framebuffer bandwidth (peak). ~6.2 ns latency.[8]
    * 16 MB DRAM used as buffer for DVD drive and audio. 81 MHz, 8-bit bus. 81 MB/s bandwidth.[8]

Graphics processing unit:

    * 162 MHz "Flipper" LSI. 180 nm NEC eDRAM-compatible process. Co-developed by Nintendo and ArtX.
    * 8 Gflops
    * 4 pixel pipelines with 1 texture unit each[8]
    * TEV "Texture EnVironment" engine (similar to Nvidia's GeForce256 "register combiners")
    * Fixed-function hardware transform and lighting (T&L). 12+ million polygons/s in-game.[10]
    * 648 megapixels/second (162 MHz × 4 pipelines), 648 megatexels/second (648 MP × 1 texture units) (peak)
          o Peak triangle performance: 20,250,000 32pixel triangles/s raw and with 1 texture and lit
                + 337,500 triangles a frame at 60 FPS
                + 675,000 triangles a frame at 30 FPS
    * 8 texture layers per pass, texture compression, full scene anti-aliasing[10]
    * 8 simultaneous hardware light
    * Bilinear, trilinear, and anisotropic texture filtering
    * Multi-texturing, bump mapping, reflection mapping, 24-bit z-buffer
    * 24-bit RGB/32-bit RGBA color depth

    *
          o Hardware limitations sometimes require a 6r+6g+6b+6a mode (18-bit color), resulting in color banding.

    * 720 × 480 interlaced or progressive scan
    * Integrated audio processor: Custom 81 MHz Macronix DSP
          o Instruction memory: 8 KiB RAM, 8 KiB ROM
          o Data memory: 8 KiB RAM, 4 KiB ROM
          o 64 channels 16-bit 48 kHz ADPCM[10]
          o Dolby Pro Logic II encoded within stereophonic output

 

 

PS2

* CPU: 64-bit[3][4] "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294.912 MHz (299 MHz on newer versions), 10.5 million transistors
          o System Memory: 32 MB(32 × 220 bytes) Direct Rambus or RDRAM
          o Memory bus Bandwidth: 3.2 gigabytes per second
          o Main processor: MIPS R5900 CPU core, 64 bit, little endian (mipsel).
          o Coprocessor: FPU (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator × 1, Floating Point Divider × 1)
          o Vector Units: VU0 and VU1 (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator × 9, Floating Point Divider × 1), 32-bit, at 150 MHz.
                + VU0 typically used for polygon transformations optionally (under parallel or serial connection), physics and other gameplay based things
                      # Parallel performs transformations in parallel in the same moment
                      # Serial (series) performs transformations in a series of steps or stages coherent to the design of each VU
                            * Stage 1: VU0 does perspective and cam, boning, animations and movement laws per triangle
                            * Stage 2: VU1 does colors, lights and effects per triangle)
                + VU1 typically used for polygon transformations, lighting and other visual based calculations
                      # Texture matrix able for 2 units (UV/ST)[37]
          o Floating Point Performance: 6.2 gigaFLOPS (single precision 32-bit floating point)
                + FPU 0.64 gigaFLOPS
                + VU0 2.44 gigaFLOPS
                + VU1 3.08 gigaFLOPS (with Internal 0.64 gigaFLOP EFU)
          o 3D CG Geometric transformation(VU0+VU1 parallel): 66 million polygons per second
                + 3D CG Geometric transformations under curved surfaces: 16 million polygons per second
                + 3D CG Geometric transformations at peak bones/movements/effects(textures)/lights(VU0+VU1): 15-20 million polygons per second (dependent on if series or parallel T&L)
                + Actual real-world polygons (per frame):500-650k at 30fps, 250-325k at 60fps
          o Compressed Image Decoder: MPEG-2
          o I/O Processor interconnection: Remote Procedure Call over a serial link, DMA controller for bulk transfer
          o Cache memory: Instruction: 16 KB(16 × 210 bytes), Data: 8 KB + 16 KB (ScrP)

# Graphics processing unit: "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147 MHz

    * Pixel pipelines: 16
    * Video output resolution: variable from 256x224 to 1280x1024 pixels
    * 4 MB (4 × 220 bytes) Embedded DRAM video memory bandwidth at 48 gigabytes per second (main system 32 MB can be dedicated into VRAM for off-screen materials)
          o Texture buffer bandwidth: 9.6 GB/s
          o Frame buffer bandwidth: 38.4 GB/s
    * DRAM Bus width: 2560-bit (composed of three independent buses: 1024-bit write, 1024-bit read, 512-bit read/write)
    * Pixel Configuration: RGB: Alpha:Z Buffer (24:8, 15:1 for RGB, 16, 24, or 32-bit Z buffer)
    * Dedicated connection to: Main CPU and VU1
    * Overall Pixel fillrate: 16x147 = 2.352 Gpixel/s (rounded to 2.4 Gpixel/s)
          o Pixel fillrate: with no texture, flat shaded 2.4(75,000,000 32pixel raster triangles)
          o Pixel fillrate: with 1 full texture(Diffuse Map), Gouraud shaded 1.2 (37,750,000 32-bit pixel raster triangles)
          o Pixel fillrate: with 2 full textures(Diffuse map + specular or alpha or other), Gouraud shaded 0.6 (18,750,000 32-bit pixel raster triangles)
    * GS effects: AAx2 (poly sorting required)[38], Bilinear, Trilinear, Multi-pass, Palletizing (4-bit = 6:1 ratio, 8-bit = 4:1)
    * Multi-pass rendering ability
          o Four passes = 300 Mpixel/s (300 Mpixels/s divided by 32 pixels = 9,375,000 triangles/s lost every four passes)[39]

 

I JUST LET THE NUMBERS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES....



Software is like Sex, it is better when it is free!

The Ghost of RubangB said:
There were fitness games, family games, and educational games on the NES buddy.

 

Yes, I just said WIDESPREAD... of course there were SOME.... Eyetoy WAS widespread...



Software is like Sex, it is better when it is free!

Laffer said:
7.) Of course they are, but they had already tough years, the PS2 put them almost out of business. They wanted even to leave the Console Hardware business after the Gamecube and concentrate on software, because they could not finance to develop a NextGen console. But they made an incredible clever move which turned into an incredible success.

Too much ignorance to correct all at once, but let's start with this one.

Nintendo has never, ever been close to going out of business since entering the video game market. In fact, Nintendo has posted a better profit than Sony's Computer Entertainment division every single year, with the sole exception of 2003. Sony is closer to insolvency right now than Nintendo has ever been in the past three decades.

http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=57802

You should stick around. You could learn a lot here.

 



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

Laffer said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
There were fitness games, family games, and educational games on the NES buddy.

Yes, I just said WIDESPREAD... of course there were SOME.... Eyetoy WAS widespread...

Does the EyeToy have fitness games, family games, and educational games?