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Forums - Sales Discussion - Microoft Burns $50 million dollar hole in their wallet

saimcheeda said:

Having little to no information on the details of the actual deal itself and the revenue sharing involved if any between Microsoft and Rockstar I’ll consider the simplest and what I feel to be an unlikely scenario first: The 25 million dollar payment was a lump sum to Rockstar and every dollar spent for Lost and Damned is going directly to Microsoft. Under this scenario 1.25 million copies would need to be sold to break even.

If Pachter is accurate, this would place Microsoft at the very least with pure profit generated 5 million in the red already on this deal. And while I am one of the few people who will admit in writing that I do read and take into account what Pachter has to say, I seriously have to disagree with his another million by October prediction. I simply do not see how and where another million copies of Lost and Damned is going to come from especially if Rockstar some time between now and the end of 2009 reveals its plans for the second episode or another fully fledged GTA game. However, selling another 250,000 copies of Lost and Damned seems like a far more attainable number and will likely happen.

Now let’s consider another scenario in line with what is known about other DLC. Let’s say the 25 million payment was only to keep the content exclusive and off the PS3 and the known revenue sharing model between Microsoft and publishers selling content over live falls under the usual 70/30 split in the publisher’s favor. This puts out of 1600 points/20 dollars 6 dollars back in Microsoft’s pocket. To break even under this scenario, 4.17 million copies would need to be sold. Microsoft couldn’t have possibly been silly enough to garner a deal where turning a profit began at sales exceeding 4.17 million copies. Right? Maybe this is where they expected to make up ground on all the additional consoles they were going to sell by having something tied to GTA 4 be exclusive.

Admittedly, I don’t know which if either scenario is correct. The truth is likely somewhere between the two but heavily leaning toward the latter. For Rockstar/2K I suspect they analyzed the development costs and decided a guaranteed 25 million per episode plus the usual market share was enough profit on one console for them to justify such a deal. None of this was a massive gamble on the part of Rockstar. After all, it’s only smart business to strike a deal with the company that has deep pockets and is in the sales lead.

As impressive as 1 million copies of anything sold is, it’s a little less impressive when it’s exclusive and tied to the words Grand Theft Auto. It’s even less impressive when currently according to vgchartz.com, Xbox 360 has 6.98 million copies of GTA 4 sold compared to PS3’s 5.55 million. At the end of the day, there hasn’t been a significant difference between the number of copies sold overall which is astounding considering the difference in current userbase. In North America the 360 enjoys a 2:1 lead over the PS3, and a 1.5 million console advantage in Europe. So the prospect of missing out on episodic DLC at best has proven marginal if not negligible on the market.

However, what is most striking is looking at the hardware sales figures leading up to, during, and after GTA 4. It was basically a dead heat leading into the release in April 2008 and remained so in the months afterward. Over the summer months, the PS3 even pulls closer to the Xbox 360. At the end of the day, it’s safe to conclude based on these numbers that GTA 4 did nothing to increase Microsoft’s console sales. Add that to the almost negligible sales difference and what can from a certain point of view be characterized as lackluster sales of Lost and Damned and Microsoft burned a 50 million dollar hole in their wallet with nothing to show for it.

So this is all someone's opinion that has no idea what is really going on? Okay.....

 



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Tim_Duncan said:
Well, they unloaded tons of money in vain again since GTA4 sold roughly the same on PS3 as on 360 despite the bigger install base.

MS didn't recoup even half of their 50 million $ (neither did they recoup the Xbox 1 losses by the way), so yeah that was another failure after Zune, Vista, the yahoo bid, internet ads vs google and Internet Explorer + Office losing market shares. They're on a roll right now.

When your competitor sells the same number of consoles as you do but with a twice as expansive console, something is wrong.

7 million isn't roughly the same as 5.5 million, bucko.

 



Let's look at what we do know.

1. GTA IV on the Xbox 360 outsold the PS3 version by about 25%. That is actually less than the advantage Microsoft has over Sony on installed console base (37%). All of the sales advantage was in the Americas -- the PS3 version outsold the Xbox 360 version in Japan and in Others.

2. There are 17M "active members on Xbox Live" according to Microsoft (as of January 2009). If this means Gold paid members, it is doubtful that many subscribed just to get DLC for GTA IV.

3. A lot of people traded their games in before DLC was available. There are used copies at 60 Gamestops within a 100 miles of my location (which is remarkable since the Store Locator only lists 50 locations). For reference, there are 57 stores with used PS3 versions.

4. Most sources have said the payment to Rockstar was a loan of some type. If that is the case, assuming a 70% return on sales to Rockstar, it would need close to 3.6M sales of both DLC (total) to payback the money. And if that money was to front development cost and it did not exceed it, then Rockstar would begin to profit after that number of sales.

5. It is highly doubtful that the it cost $50M to do two DLC installments. The money probably helped Rockstar finance on-going activities -- so it was good for it. And it will make a true profit on the DLC at a (much) lower number of purchases.

6. Even if Microsoft does not realize any hard (monetary) profits, it got a lot of PR buzz out of the purchase -- which does not hurt.

Mike from Morgantown



      


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Tim_Duncan said:
Well, they unloaded tons of money in vain again since GTA4 sold roughly the same on PS3 as on 360 despite the bigger install base.

MS didn't recoup even half of their 50 million $ (neither did they recoup the Xbox 1 losses by the way), so yeah that was another failure after Zune, Vista, the yahoo bid, internet ads vs google and Internet Explorer + Office losing market shares. They're on a roll right now.

When your competitor sells the same number of consoles as you do but with a twice as expansive console, something is wrong.

Timmothy, darling.... please stop trying to show off for the big kids.  It will only get you beat up again like last week with that mean old Billy Thompson.  I'm tired of cleaning your bloody noses and scrapes, so please.... stop spouting nonsense that you know nothing about.

 



kowenicki said:
A bullshit article based on nothing more than hearsay and guesswork.

 

 the truth hurts huh?hehe



Being a cricket fan is much simpler and more fun
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saimcheeda said:
kowenicki said:
A bullshit article based on nothing more than hearsay and guesswork.

 

 the truth hurts huh?hehe

 

 Opinion does not equal fact and certainly not truth.  The article has no valid information to make any judgement as it neither knows exactly whether the 50 million was a loan or payment, they also have no idea of who gets what revenue from each sale.  So based upon some massive assumptions with no evidence to back themselves they can judge the DLC a faiure.  Then there is the case of us not knowing exactly how the game would have sold without the DLC either, all in all the article is ill conceived and badly written, and that is both fact and truth mate.



kowenicki said:
@saimcheedda

fol de rol

i dont know... I havent heard any truths here in this thread...

go play with timmy... hes about your level.

 

 maybe i will...i am only 15..wonder if he likes cricket



Being a cricket fan is much simpler and more fun

What about buring 60 million dollars on killzone 2
sony will never make that money back



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shakarak said:
pachter is not a pariah.

 

Pachter probably makes more $ than 90% of the people posting on this board and he can add 50 pages to any neogaf thread just by posting "hi".

Definitely, not a pariah.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

Exactly how is "paying off a company" different than doing first-party content? You still throw money at something, just how it is done is different.