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Forums - Gaming Discussion - GDC Rant: "The medium is not adolescent, you're ****ing adolescent"

wfz on 28 March 2009
SaviorX said:
Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:
I'm surprised at how many men here are attacking her as a woman. It's one thing to disagree with her views but then to go on and say "go get a real job, your biological clock is ticking"? I'm sure some psychologists would have something to say about how many insults in this topic are gender specific.

Agreed. It's one thing to suggest that her views may be too gender-oriented and angry, it's entirely another to attack her as a woman.

 

I think her words touched a sweet spot here.


I don't think these guys would take offense so much if her words didn't describe them to a tee.The only reason a person would get mad at what she is saying is if it applies to them.

 

I caught a lot of flak for saying that FPSs supplant normal "adolescent" insecurities a while ago. But I still stand by that theory. When the Indianapolis Colts lost in the playoffs, I immediately played Gears of War 2 afterwards to blow off steam.

 

If anything she is right. All we've seen is KILL KILL KILL. Nintendo is criticized for not having hulking brutes as protagnists and senseless violence. Shadows of The Collosus is art. Jet Set Radio is art. Halo is not.

I've heard this a lot, and I really feel the need to respond to it because I've heard way too many people say this before. What you said is not true at all. Sure, people can react harshly due to it hitting a "sweet spot" and "describing them to a tee", but that is by no means the only answer. It's just as probable that people are getting pissed off at her for generalizing and stereotyping men, when those attributes she listed don't fit us at all. She's taking a cheap shot and being fallacious, and that is what pisses many people off.

 



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MontanaHatchet on 28 March 2009

She said that men were scared of "intellectual discovery." For all I care, she can rot.



 

 

naznatips on 28 March 2009

I agree, her generalizations about men are bad.

Some of her points about the industry are not. It's not bad that we have the bloody action games. It's bad that they represent some 75% of western development resources though. It's one TINY genre in a sea of possibility, and that's a problem.



The_vagabond7 on 28 March 2009

For the response "well she did it first", you only prove her more right by responding the way you do. You fuel her sexist arguments. Calling her a bitch and saying her husband wrote her book only fuels her anger and justifies her beliefs.



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Godot on 28 March 2009

I think the way some people are reacting to her actually shows what she's talking about. I agree that she may be a snob but I don't think she's sexist.

I think she's wrong because there are great games that are not really gender-specific. The Sims, for example, is one of the best and most popular games of all-time and it appeals to both gender. Same thing could be said for Mario Kart, Wii Fit and Wii Sports.



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badgenome on 28 March 2009
The_vagabond7 said:
For the response "well she did it first", you only prove her more right by responding the way you do. You fuel her sexist arguments. Calling her a bitch and saying her husband wrote her book only fuels her anger and justifies her beliefs.

And her behaving like a bitch only justifies the belief that she is, in fact, a bitch.

 



dib8rman on 28 March 2009
badgenome said:
The_vagabond7 said:
For the response "well she did it first", you only prove her more right by responding the way you do. You fuel her sexist arguments. Calling her a bitch and saying her husband wrote her book only fuels her anger and justifies her beliefs.

And her behaving like a bitch only justifies the belief that she is, in fact, a bitch.

 


Between this thread an Rolstoppable anti wii thread it's getting near impossible for me to stop laughing.



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L.C.E.C. on 28 March 2009

Nowadays, the Feminist movement is over-played, and over-eccentric. I could understand it maybe in the 70's and 80's, but if we ever have a draft re-enacted in my country, only men will be listed. I think equal pay should be funded for equal work (quality of work/physical quantity, not hours put in), but the truth is, most videogame developers and hardcore videogame players are NOT WOMEN. Last time we were talking about games in my class, the only girls who openly played them for fun only played WiiSports, Nintendogs, GH/RB (Singing only, -_-) and stupid itouch flash-quality games... And I know only 2 other female friends who play videogames... One is a Zelda fan, and the other mooches off of her boyfriend's console with games she "buys him".

The truth is, most girl gamers are really casual gamers, and most game concept designers/directors... are guys... and this apparent feminist needs to learn to face the music...




Gamerace on 28 March 2009
Rainbird said:
Gamerace said:
Rainbird said:
Gamerace said:
Rainbird said:
In many ways I agree. But this is a little over the top, it's not like there are only games with male fantasies in mind made.

And splitting gamers by age only is very narrow minded. There has never been, and will never be, a game that appeals to everyone.

And for every great movie there is, there will be a ton of shitty movies. The problem in the game industry I think, is that there are too few great games, compared to the "bad" games, and too few of these great games are given the attention they deserve by the media, compared to the bad games.

There is no reason a game that appeals to everyone cannot be made.   I mean it won't appeal to 100% of the public naturally, but certainly a game that appeals equally to men and women, young and old could be made.  Just like the great classic movies or great classic songs do.

But not with the current reality of geeky males designing games that appeal to only geeky males.  They need to get writers and designers from other industries to come into this one to bring in new ideas and expand the market.  Particularly females writers and designers.

Well, I think you could turn this upside down, and say that for every game, you can always find someone who the game appeals to. Men aren't just men in terms games that appeal to them, as it is with women and children as well. No matter what group you go out to, you will find someone who likes Mozart or Charlie Chaplin movies, but that doesn't mean these things have universal appeal.

The Wii doesn't appeal to everyone, because there will be people who thinks motion controls are stupid, or much prefer another controller, and a game like Wii Sport would never have any appeal to people like this, but that doesn't mean there are no people of their age and gender who it does appeal to.

I also think you are wrong, in the industry needing professionals from other industries. I think that videogames need to come up with these people for themselves, if we are to set us apart from the others. It's us who deal with the industry, that must also change it.

Sure.  If you want to target a specific demographic go ahead and there's always room for that in any media, movies, music, games, you name it.  Ubisoft is a master at this approach.

Nintendo in contrast tries to cast a wide net and bring in a huge cross section of all different demographics with their games.   As I said, you'll never get everyone, some people have very particular tastes, but ultimately you'll sell to a whole lot more people.   Results speak for themselves.

But Nintendo's games are also very base.  A lot of 3rd parties like to do meatier stuff than Nintendo touches and there's nothing wrong with that and no reason why they couldn't be more taylored to a broader audience.  But not every game needs to be either.

As for the industry doing it for themselves without outside influence.  Sure!  If it can and if it'll let itself.  I'm sure developers have loads of great ideas publishers fear to touch.

While I certainly agree that Nintendo makes games for a very large demographic, I think it's better if we just agree to disagree here.

And thankfully, I personally think we are seeing more risks being taken by developers and publishers these days, so I feel we are moving in the right direction. Sony taking a game like Heavy Rain under its wings seems like such a step to me, and I also feel that more games are coming out with good stories and character development.

 

 I agree with you 100% on Heavy Rain though.   If that comes out as good as it could then I'm hogging my brother's PS3 from my nephew and playing it.   LBP can wait. lol.   I also agree there are some (few) companies pushing this envelope - Bioware most notably comes to mind.  WoW also has mass appeal.  Guitar Hero. Fable.  But these are the exceptions rather than the rule.



 

MontanaHatchet on 28 March 2009
The_vagabond7 said:
For the response "well she did it first", you only prove her more right by responding the way you do. You fuel her sexist arguments. Calling her a bitch and saying her husband wrote her book only fuels her anger and justifies her beliefs.

Responding to sexism with sexism has nothing to do with the attitude of game developers. What are you talking about?