I am dissapointed in you Rol you forgot one:

Thats not good sales considering the userbase.

I hope you don´t forget next time so I don´t have to waste time correcting you again.

Same old games? I thought Madworld and House of the Dead just came out? And what? I DID acknowledge that games that sold, but I also acknowledged that they were first party. Name a 3rd party game outside of like.....Guitar Hero which sells well on all consoles, that the Wii sold well at? Well, I guess at that point you do have to say "same old games" because I haven't seen a quality game in a while on the Wii up until Madworld.

You can toot your little horn about the PS3 (even though I was talking about BOTH HD consoles), but fact is, the only games that sell on the Wii are 1st party and shovelware. If the argument about "quality" is inherently the 1st party, then this thread is done, because its a no brainer that the Wii DOES sell those games....but outside of that...nope.

Don't believe me? Just go to the games section, have Wii be the system, then click "sales" so it orders them in descending sales numbers. Other than Guitar Hero/Rock Band and Resident Evil 4, it's all first party (which we ALL KNOW SELLS WELL) and crap. Game, set, match

Edit: Million sellers

I don't think this is a discussion about how "happy" a company is. This is one about selling games. And in that sense, those games sold poorly. That's always the excuse, which I called out in my first post. You Wii fans should change your platform to "Wii games make profit" instead of arguing "Wii doesn't sell games" because in the end, only profit matters, right?

There is no absolute metric of success. That is a bullshit idea or a retarded arguement. And yes, in the end only profit matters. There would be maybe 5 games a year worth mentioning that would be made if none of them could ever make a profit. That is being extremely generous too. The fact that games like de Blob, No More Heroes, and Boom Blox are getting sequels shows the point of lower dev costs being an advantage of the Wii. Its not an excuse so much as a stone cold reality. You don't need as big a game to sel extremely well so you don't give as huge a push for it and it doesn't break records. But then the game was never meant to break records so what does it really matter?

I'll put in a few facts that many people already know into this simple equation but don't really bring up much. Fact 1: Nintendo has the best first party studios in the business overall, nobody can deny that. 2: Because of fact 1, 3rd party has to compete with Nintendo and it's very difficult because they almost never make bad games, and it's actually safe to say that they don't make bad games within their 1st party studios at all, and they have A LOT of big names within their studios for years to come, Miyamoto is a freakn beast, and no Wii Music is not as bad as some people think, it's a very good game for a casual family. 3: Most devs thought the Wii was going to flop, they have never predicted that it would be this successful so their initial projects were focused on the 360 and many PS3 ports from the 360 or just the PS3, since they can't simply port their games to the Wii, they choose not to or do a bad job because it's a totally different architecture and they blame it on Nintendo instead of spending some time to understand the hardware and write a good engine for it or simply admit their own incompetence in the area of making games as well as Nintendo can make them.

Finally, another question most people already know: How the hell can the Wii sale a lot quality 3rd party games when there are so few?

The developers and publishers have nobody but themselves to blame, but at least even a company like EA is changing their tactics towards the Wii now, it will take awhile to catch up on the pleasing graphics department since most NA studios have about a year or 2 of a late start sigh.

I agree with everything you've said; Except one thing I'd add would be that third parties have to compete with Nintendo regardless; whether they release a game on a competing platform or Nintendo's.

People have budgets, if a game is made by the big N, people are more likely to buy it because they know it can't be a bad game overall, it's the safer route since so many 3rd party flood the Wii market with pure crap and many people are new to this console gaming scene with the Wii generation, that's also why Nintendo of America is timing their releases now instead of releasing everything at once or otherwise the 3rd party in NA will just bitch and moan all day like they always have, fkn babies need just to make good games from the start.

I think in the short term shovelware route is "safe" but at the end of the day it can and is counterproductive. For the reasons you've mentioned.

yeah when the wallet comes to play into the equation, shovelwares are usually cheaper, those damn stupid casual suckers sigh.

they sell enough to make tiny profits, and that's why they keep getting made, well, besides that robot wars game i guess, i hope nobody buys that and it just burns in hell itself.