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Forums - Gaming Discussion - IGN: Why DVD's better than Blu-Ray....

1337 Gamer on 20 March 2009

good read but its the same points that have been brought up since blu ray was created



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Ascended_Saiyan3 on 20 March 2009
1337 Gamer said:
good read but its the same points that have been brought up since blu ray was created

It's damn near the same points that have been brought up since DVD was created.

 



twesterm on 20 March 2009
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:

To prove that VHS tapes are MORE durable than DVDs, slide both across the pavement and try to play them.  The one that plays is more durable.  I can't tell you how many times I would DREAD opening a DVD order shipment or DVD from the store that's rattling!  You just KNOW that DVD is scratched to hell!  You didn't have that concern with VHS and you don't have that concern with Blu-ray.  BTW, auto-tracking was implemented on VHS players YEARS before DVD came out.

VHS wasn't as portable as DVD or was it that the VHS portability wasn't that popular?  VHS could be viewed on camcorders and those camcorders could be hooked up to portable radio/TVs, etc.  There were also, VHS players in cars.  I vote for VHS portability just not being as popular.

I know MOSTLY people older than 60.  They ALL see the difference between DVD and Blu-ray (including my father that's legally blind without his glasses).  These people have a hard time with the remote controls for their TVs!  I believe I have you beat by a good margin.  BTW, those people are almost ALWAYS the last to adopt a new technology.  They are the same people that were last in adopting DVD over VHS.  It will most likely be the same for them this time.

Also, along with durability over DVD, VHS has the ability to skip the FBI Warning and other such scenes.  VHS, also, still has that advantage over Blu-ray.

 

 

Ok, yes, if you try destroy a DVD you're going to destroy a DVD.  Stop playing stupid, you know what I mean when I say it's more durable.  I'm not talking about rubbing it against the pavement (and if you rub the actual tape against the pavement, same result as the DVD). 

I'm talking about with age, the DVD wins.  After 100 viewings, the DVD wins.  Also, DVD's players rarely destroy your DVD (I'm not saying they don't) but VHS players eat tapes A LOT.  I don't think I've ever lost a DVD due to a player malfunction and I've lost maybe two DVD's due to wear(and that was due to being in a freshman dorm) but I can't count the number of VHS tapes my VHS player has eaten or how many VHS tapes that have just become unwatchable due to wear and age (and I in general take excellent care of all my media).

I still have a good 50 or so VHS tapes at my parents house and I would say a good half half of those I can't watch anymore.  I guarantee you if I come back in 20 years and try to play my DVD's, they'll still work.

That is what I'm talking about with more durable. 

And I guess we just know different people because just about every non-tech person I know either doesn't see enough of a difference to care or just doesn't care (and this counts for all ages).

And I can skip every FBI warning by pressing fast forward or pressing skip chapter.  And even if I couldn't skip that, I would take the 10 seconds of FBI warning over the minutes it takes to rewind.  Jesus, talk about grasping at straws. :-p

-edit-

Whoops, forgot portability.

Perhaps portability is the wrong word I'm using, forgive me, I suck at words today.  I'm merely talking about the sheer number of devices you have that support the media.  Today, how many things do you have that play DVD's?  Ok, how many devices do you have that play BluRay?  If you're thinking about the switch, you have to sacrifice that, shall we say flexibility?

Yes, your DVD's still work everywhere but your BluRays don't.

And I said before, VHS just didn't have that flexibility.  You had your camcorder and your VHS player(s), today we have our DVD players, computers, consoles, portable DVD players, and probably other things I'm just not thinking of.  As soon as you go to BluRay, new movies can't take advantage of that.

 

 



 

numonex on 20 March 2009

DVDs sell muych more and have huge market share in excess of 95%. Big deal Blu-Ray has less than 5% total market share it is not setting the world on fire.

Only Sony PR hype Blu-Ray up hoping to get some gullible people to buy Blu-Ray and PS3. Blu-Ray does not even look much different to DVD unless you have a 1080p HDTV.

Sony and Blu-Ray supporters you can spend a fortune on Blu-Ray movies and it looks better than DVD but it costs you lots of money. But I can easily download my DVDs from the internet through torrents for free and watch the same movie. Big deal I do not get all the extra bonus material content crap on a Blu-Ray disc and DVD is on SD or maybe upscaled DVD instead of Blu-Ray 1080p.



megaman79 on 20 March 2009
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
megaman79 said:
No one cares about Blue Ray. That should indicate the potential success of HD movies pretty quickly shouldn't it?

I guess 12% of the total disc based video market, in the US, is...nobody, huh? Boy, this is getting quite ridiculous.

Here is Europe's player adoption rate and future projection.

 

But people in general do not care about Blueray, thats the problem. There is not enough of a difference, and it is not the same as high spec. proccesing in consoles serving multiple reasons for its advantage.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

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Ascended_Saiyan3 on 20 March 2009
twesterm said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
twesterm said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
twesterm said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
twesterm said:
Megadude said:
Upscaled DVD looks grainey on my LCD. Some people say they can't tell the difference. Some people cant tell the difference between a bird and a dildo. They are blind.

@ Twesterm: What's with the agenda? Banning people for talking about RROD, calling people fanboys because they enjoy bluray? kk

 

Agenda?  If you want to talk about your ban, PM me or naz, no need to bring it up here. 

And why would I call people fanboys for liking BluRay?  I myself like BluRay and even said so above if you had bothered reading the posts (it even says it in the first sentence of my first post).  The people that I did say have fanboy blinders are the ones that refuse to acknowledge that BluRay does have its fair share of flaws.

  • Price.  It's more expensive and only marginally better in many peoples eyes
  • It's not as portable.  While you might have one BluRay player you probably have many things that play DVD'a
  • Up-conversion.  To people that aren't trained to see the high amount of detail they don't see or care about the difference between an upscaped DVD and a BluRay 1080p movie.
  • Not all movies are available.  If someone is going to buy a BluRay player they probably want to watch the movies they want.  If the movies they want aren't coming out for it or the older movies they might want aren't released on BluRay, what is their incentive to spend the money?

 

Most of those were arguments for VHS over DVD (see links in my post above).  What happened in time, though?

BTW, what do you mean "trained to see the high amounts of detail"?  That's ridiculous!  The AVERAGE human eyes sees about 9 to 10 MILLION pixels.  Blu-ray is 2 million pixels.  DVD is 345K pixels.  So, that argument of yours is only for the misinformed.

 

 

So you want to bring up VHS to DVD and those points then?

  • Price-- DVD's are not just marginally better to the average person than VHS, they are astronomically better.  No rewindings, greatly improved quality that anyone can see, more space, chapter skipping, menu's, more durable.  It's a huge improvement in every way over VHS.   It was very much worth the price difference.
  • Portability-- True, DVD devices were more just like BluRay devices are more today but portability wasn't an issue then.  You didn't have a VHS player in your gaming system, computer, and in the 10 Tv's in your house.  You could buy one DVD player and be good and not really worry about it.
  • Not All Movies available-- Two years after DVD hit main stream every movie was coming out on DVD.  I'll be nice though and give this point, though with the other points, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

And the training comment, "hardcore" gamers look for things like high resolution, your "girlfriend" doesn't.  Those people who don't normally look for those things aren't going to see them.  It would help if you actually read all of a post before commenting on it.

DVD were NOT more durable than VHS (that's crazy talk).  However, Blu-ray is MUCH more durable than DVD.

Here is the funny part about the 1st sentence in your "Price" section.  You say the picture quality was ASTRONOMICALLY better from VHS to DVD (272,160 pixels to 345,600 pixels).  However, you want to say the picture quality from DVD to Blu-ray (345,600 pixels to 2,073,600 pixels) is not greater?!  That's crazy talk by ALL accounts!  You can't have it both ways.

All NEW Hollywood blockbuster movie hit Blu-ray since the 2 year mark (about 6 months after HD DVD was defeated).  The only exceptions are movie shot with a low rez camera (which makes perfect sense).

Portability is sometime that came LATER with DVD.  The same is expected with Blu-ray.  Car players have been in the works, if it's not already out.  Why can't people understand that these things take TIME (like ALL things)?

Some people just don't know how to describe what they are seeing.  Most "regular Joes" would just describe it as being "clearer" than other movies.  That doesn't mean they have to "look" for it.  They just need to know the terms to describe what they are seeing.  Nothing more.

 

 

Did you even bother reading my posts or are you too busy waving your arms?  I'll say it one more time and then I'll just ignore you every time after that when you start waving your arms and ignoring actual points I made.

  • Disc media is much more durable than tape media, I don't know how else to put that.  VHS movies are rarely clear and often have something funny with them and are often dirty.  DVD's are simple to keep clean and ones I bought nearly 10 years ago work jut as well as they did today, that is rarely the case with VHS movies.
  • I am not talking resolution, I don't give a crap about resolution at the moment.  Nowhere have I even hinted at talking about that.  I'll even bold this so hopefully it will stick-- I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT RESOLUTION AND PIXELS WHEN TALKING ABOUT QUALITY FROM VHS TO DVD.  Do you ever remember having to play with tracking on a DVD?  No, of course not.  None of the many issues that come with VHS tapes comes with DVD's and that's what I'm talking about.  That was a huge thing.
  • I admitted I was off about the new releases comment.
  • Portability-- If you had bothered reading my post, it just wasn't a common thing for people to have VHS players everywhere.  That wasn't an issue then.  Today, it's common for most household to have multiple ways to play DVD's.  BluRay players are expensive so it is not common for people to have more than one.  That means if you buy a BluRay movie then you can only take advantage of one player.  It is going to be a long time until the average family will have multiple ways to play BluRay movies.
  • You could not imagine how many "regular joes" I know that just don't see the difference or just don't care about the difference.  Outside of techy people or super AV video, most people don't care about the difference between an upscaled DVD and a 1080p movie.  A lot of older people (lets say 35+) don't see and don't understand the difference.

So yeah, BluRay still has a long way to go.  Just like I said earlier, I like my BluRay movies and I buy them when I can but people shouldn't be so resistant to the idea that BluRay still has many negatives and it is not nearly as large as a jump as VHS to DVD was.

To prove that VHS tapes are MORE durable than DVDs, slide both across the pavement and try to play them.  The one that plays is more durable.  I can't tell you how many times I would DREAD opening a DVD order shipment or DVD from the store that's rattling!  You just KNOW that DVD is scratched to hell!  You didn't have that concern with VHS and you don't have that concern with Blu-ray.  BTW, auto-tracking was implemented on VHS players YEARS before DVD came out.

VHS wasn't as portable as DVD or was it that the VHS portability wasn't that popular?  VHS could be viewed on camcorders and those camcorders could be hooked up to portable radio/TVs, etc.  There were also, VHS players in cars.  I vote for VHS portability just not being as popular.

I know MOSTLY people older than 60.  They ALL see the difference between DVD and Blu-ray (including my father that's legally blind without his glasses).  These people have a hard time with the remote controls for their TVs!  I believe I have you beat by a good margin.  BTW, those people are almost ALWAYS the last to adopt a new technology.  They are the same people that were last in adopting DVD over VHS.  It will most likely be the same for them this time.

Also, along with durability over DVD, VHS has the ability to skip the FBI Warning and other such scenes.  VHS, also, still has that advantage over Blu-ray.

 

 

Ok, yes, if you try destroy a DVD you're going to destroy a DVD.  Stop playing stupid, you know what I mean when I say it's more durable.  I'm not talking about rubbing it against the pavement (and if you rub the tape against the pavement, same result as the DVD). 

I'm talking about with age, the DVD wins.  After 100 viewings, the DVD wins.  Also, DVD's players rarely destroy your DVD (I'm not saying they don't) but VHS players eat tapes A LOT.  I don't think I've ever lost a DVD due to a player malfunction and I've lost maybe two DVD's due to ware (and that was due to being in a freshman dorm) but I can't count the number of VHS tapes my VHS player has eaten or how many VHS tapes that have just become unwatchable due to wear and age.

I still have a good 50 or so VHS tapes at my parents house and I would say a good half half of those I can't watch anymore.  I guarantee you if I come back in 20 years and try to play my DVD's, they'll still work.

That is what I'm talking about with more durable. 

And I guess we just know different people because just about every non-tech person I know either doesn't see enough of a difference to care or just doesn't care (and this counts for all ages).

And I can skip every FBI warning by pressing fast forward or pressing skip chapter.  And even if I couldn't skip that, I would take the 10 seconds of FBI warning over the minutes it takes to rewind.  Jesus, talk about grasping at straws.

 

Don't act like "the scratched DVD in the case" example was lost on you.  Stop playing the "if you destroy a DVD you're going to destroy a DVD" card.  It's not working.

You used the wrong description for what you were trying to get across.  You mean LONGEVITY...not durability.  Well the PQ will probably hold up better over time on a studio pressed DVD than a studio made VHS.  However, I would probably need some specialized equipment to register the decline in quality.  I probably have VHS tapes from before you could walk that still play in my old VHS player.  Since I have DVD's from 1997, I will have to see how it does over the next decade or two (if possible).  Theoretically, Blu-ray content can last between 100 and 500 years.  Of course, we won't be around to find that out.

I guarantee that if you setup a good HDTV (1080p) and a Blu-ray player with nothing but Blu-ray movies for a year and try to replace those movies with the DVD versions, they wouldn't let you.  That's not even considering the audio part.

You can't chapter skip a FBI warning on a studio made DVD.  Bootleg movies would be a different story.  Your points of DVD being more "durable" than VHS is..."grasping at straws".  I just followed your league in that respect.

 



Khuutra on 20 March 2009

Are you implying that VHS do not noticeably degrade in terms of picture quality over time with repeated viewings?

You guys need to reply to each other with messages about five sentences long. Each sentence may contain one point or counterpoint.



Ascended_Saiyan3 on 20 March 2009
megaman79 said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
megaman79 said:
No one cares about Blue Ray. That should indicate the potential success of HD movies pretty quickly shouldn't it?

I guess 12% of the total disc based video market, in the US, is...nobody, huh? Boy, this is getting quite ridiculous.

Here is Europe's player adoption rate and future projection.

 

But people in general do not care about Blueray, thats the problem. There is not enough of a difference, and it is not the same as high spec. proccesing in consoles serving multiple reasons for its advantage.

There is more of an audio and video difference than DVD over VHS.  That's a fact and can't be logically disputed.  Are you not looking at the charts I placed for you to look at?  It doesn't make sense to make a statement saying people don't care about Blu-ray (notice...no "e" in Blu-ray) after seeing those charts.  Just say that YOU and some fanatical ex-HD DVD supporters don't care about Blu-ray (for obivous reasons) and call it a day.  DVD sales have been CONSTANTLY falling.  Blu-ray sales is CONSTANTLY rising.  'Nuff said.

 



ChichiriMuyo on 20 March 2009
twesterm said:
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:
twesterm said:
Megadude said:
Upscaled DVD looks grainey on my LCD. Some people say they can't tell the difference. Some people cant tell the difference between a bird and a dildo. They are blind.

@ Twesterm: What's with the agenda? Banning people for talking about RROD, calling people fanboys because they enjoy bluray? kk

 

Agenda?  If you want to talk about your ban, PM me or naz, no need to bring it up here. 

And why would I call people fanboys for liking BluRay?  I myself like BluRay and even said so above if you had bothered reading the posts (it even says it in the first sentence of my first post).  The people that I did say have fanboy blinders are the ones that refuse to acknowledge that BluRay does have its fair share of flaws.

  • Price.  It's more expensive and only marginally better in many peoples eyes
  • It's not as portable.  While you might have one BluRay player you probably have many things that play DVD'a
  • Up-conversion.  To people that aren't trained to see the high amount of detail they don't see or care about the difference between an upscaped DVD and a BluRay 1080p movie.
  • Not all movies are available.  If someone is going to buy a BluRay player they probably want to watch the movies they want.  If the movies they want aren't coming out for it or the older movies they might want aren't released on BluRay, what is their incentive to spend the money?

 

Most of those were arguments for VHS over DVD (see links in my post above).  What happened in time, though?

BTW, what do you mean "trained to see the high amounts of detail"?  That's ridiculous!  The AVERAGE human eyes sees about 9 to 10 MILLION pixels.  Blu-ray is 2 million pixels.  DVD is 345K pixels.  So, that argument of yours is only for the misinformed.

 

 

So you want to bring up VHS to DVD and those points then?

  • Price-- DVD's are not just marginally better to the average person than VHS, they are astronomically better.  No rewindings, greatly improved quality that anyone can see, more space, chapter skipping, menu's, more durable.  It's a huge improvement in every way over VHS.   It was very much worth the price difference.
  • Portability-- True, DVD devices were more just like BluRay devices are more today but portability wasn't an issue then.  You didn't have a VHS player in your gaming system, computer, and in the 10 Tv's in your house.  You could buy one DVD player and be good and not really worry about it.
  • Not All Movies available-- Two years after DVD hit main stream every movie was coming out on DVD.  I'll be nice though and give this point, though with the other points, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

And the training comment, "hardcore" gamers look for things like high resolution, your "girlfriend" doesn't.  Those people who don't normally look for those things aren't going to see them.  It would help if you actually read all of a post before commenting on it.

 

And by "hit the mainstream" you mean after the launch of the PS2, right?  Because I assure you, having owned a DVD player in 2000, that 3 years into the format's life you most certainly could not find everything on DVD.  Not even if we're only talking new releases at the time.  Sure, by 2k2 that was no issue, once tens of millions had PS2s and tens of millions more had stand alone dvd players, but then we're talking 5 years into the format's life.  See if you can make this same argument in another 2-3 years.

Really, there has not ever been a single argument that has crossed my path against Blu-Ray that wasn't said about DVD ten years ago.  Not a single one.  Even the idea of digital distribution as an up and coming challenger existed then.  If I ever do see an anti-BR argument that wasn't used against DVD as well, I think my brain might explode forcing my eyes right out of their sockets.



You do not have the right to never be offended.

Khuutra on 20 March 2009
Ascended_Saiyan3 said:

There is more of an audio and video difference than DVD over VHS.  That's a fact and can't be logically disputed.  Are you not looking at the charts I placed for you to look at?  It doesn't make sense to make a statement saying people don't care about Blu-ray (notice...no "e" in Blu-ray) after seeing those charts.  Just say that YOU and some fanatical ex-HD DVD supporters don't care about Blu-ray (for obivous reasons) and call it a day.  DVD sales have been CONSTANTLY falling.  Blu-ray sales is CONSTANTLY rising.  'Nuff said.

This I wasn't aware of. DVDs made less money in 2008 than in 2007?